Jon said:

i think it's just like acid aside from the bitter taste i can't tell it apart i use tracing paper because it's so thin and the product goes directly to the mouth.

Thanks for the report Jon, excellent material isn't it !!!! Glad you agree.

kept a log of the time line for our trip the other night:

4:30pm both ate a meal of plain steak/potatoe(no toppings)/corn

6:00pm both of us took 50mg mescaline
6:30pm both of us took 50mg mescaline
7:00pm both of us took 50mg mescaline
7:30pm both of us took 50mg mescaline (200mg total)

7:30pm both of us placed 350ug (mics) of HPBCD complexed 25i-nbome under tongue, held there for 20 minutes, kept saliva/spit in for 10 minutes, then swallowed, but still kept filter paper blotter of 25i-nbome under tongue for full 20minutes, then disposed of paper.

Mescaline was felt coming on first, then the 25i-nbome was felt coming at about 1 hour after placing under tongue.

In the future we will take the 25i-nbome about halfway thru taking the mescaline hcl pills, that way both entheogens will end up coming on at about the same exact time. You can take 50mg mescaline pills (or even 75mg pills) every 1/2 hour, as there is little tolerance to the effects of mescaline, even 1 to 2 hours later, the doses of mescaline have 90% effectiveness of the 1st dose of mescaline you took, you can't do this with LSD or tryptamines.

We were feeling full effects from both substances at 9pm. The peak strong effects of the trip lasted until about 3am in the morning, we were both still lightly tripping till 6am in the morning, we could not sleep, so we both took 1 and 1/2 benadryl, which quickly knocked us both out, we slept a good 6 hours.

We woke up completely refreshed, no headache at all, we both felt a powerful afterglow and had energy to go about cleaning the place, working outside, etc. The normal way you feel after acid or mescaline. No hangover at all.

In short, when you combine both substances, the trip is about the same length as an acid or mescaline trip. We LOVE long trips, we want to enjoy and trip out for as long as possible all night long.

** She has taken 25i-nbome "on it's own" several times in the past, as have I, and we have noticed that it is lacking spiritually, the trip is too short (only lasting 6 hours max with only 4 hours of visuals.)During the trip she referred to 25i-nbome on it's own as "fake Chinese acid" cause it lacks the full mind-manifesting effects of real acid. I would have to agree with her statement.

*** when both substances are combined the 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E and 5-HT2B activity of the mescaline "modulates" the powerful visual activity of 25i-nbome (highest ever discovered affinity for 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C, which is responsible for most visual activity and complex behaviors) so that the visuals & thoughts become "meaningful" like real LSD or mescaline visuals. That night, we saw actual archaic/Mayan/complex imagery all over the carpet and walls, even at 5am in the morning, when I closed me eyes, I was still seeing colorful grids and geometric images. The closed and OEV visuals are far more powerful than what you see on acid, and music sounds better than it even dose on acid alone

...you have the exact same GREAT sense of humor and mind-trip as you do on acid, we watched several movies and laughed our butts off and even a scary movie which we were fully engrosed in. It was magnificient. Walking into other rooms, we would see psychedelic film of all types of imagery that made sense form all over the place, it was absolutely beautiful, I had a hard time tearing myself away from music as it was the best I'd ever heard it.

*** I watched as an actress on my monitor's screensaver morphed and changed into 4 completely different women over a minute's span, normally I would need to take 200ug of acid for this same visual effect.

Believe it or not, but we love the combination even more than acid, it feels even more pleasurable, and colors can be seen we had never seen before on acid. She kept remarking how it would be impossible to tell the hybrid combination apart from acid, I said the same...it was so identical in every way. We said this several times throughout the night, there is really no way I'd be able to differentiate.

25i-nbome + mescaline looks like this as far as affinity agonism:

5-HT2A, Alpha2c, 5-HT2B, 5-HT2C, 5-HT1A, 5-HT1E, 5-HT6, u opiate, kappa opiate, Imidazoline1, alpha2a.

If you want you can go to wikipedia article on "LSD" and scroll down to the middle affinity bar graph, then compare LSD with the above hybrid combination, it is 5-HT/alpha quite similar, and explains so much why the hybrid combination can not be differentiated from an acid trip by either of us.

Unfortunately, plain beta cyclodextrin doesn't work very well, has to be the hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin, brand names like "trappsol" and the like. I bought some from a sport supplement company that got it from china before the pro-hormone ban of the Bush years. Seen it on auction sites at one time as well, but not lately.  xxx/per gram sounds about right for the other.  Someone needs to start selling HPBCD on auction sites again, lol.  I have heard of someone who was gonna try adding MG seed extraction to the nbome to kick it up a notch as well, sounds like it would indeed work. Mescaline is easy as pie to extract from trichocereus, ekstaza or foaf has a wonderful tek for mescaline hcl at shroomery and like sites, just gotta find the skins first, that's the only hard part, but it is out there.

Could also get acid if wanted to, but absolutely no need anymore, the hybrid combination of mescaline + 25i feels identical to acid in every way, except it is even more visual, more pleasurable, music sounds even better than it does on acid, and more "colorful" (hundreds of shades of color can be seen which never happens on acid), not to mention there is less anxiety, in short we both prefer it even more so than the real thing. Congrats on your experiences!!! so glad to hear somebody else finally tried it !!!

Here is my theory on agonism based on Kent's book and my own research:

5-HT2A = responsible for high visual activity & complex behaviors as well. (stimulating & raises blood pressure slightly)
5-HT2C = responsible for high visual activity & complex behaviors as well. (stimulating)
5-HT2B = responsible for entactogenic and sensual effects (stimulating)
5-HT1A = responsible for mystical & spiritual insights, calming & serene (inhibitory & modulates the visual activity of 5-HT2A & 5-HT2C to make it archaic and meaningful, also lowers blood pressure) key to the "antipodes" of the mind.
5-HT1E = responsible for forming memories and accessing deep memories
5-HT6 & 5-HT7 = responsible for psychedelic transcendence & enhanced cognitive abilities.
alpha 2C & 2A = effective at stimulating serotonin production, cardiovascular activity, and actue sensuality.
kappa opioid receptor = mediate tactile sensory pathways, mediate pain, gravity awareness, and orientation sensation.

All of the above receptors are hit when mescaline is combined with 25i-nbome creating an absolutely amazing trip indistinguishable from acid except for some added benefits: music sounds even better than it does on acid, more "colorful" than acid (hundreds of shades of color can be seen), far more visual than acid, less anxiety, and more pleasurable.

Never tried beta cyclodextrin myself only going from what I've read. will try to find the statement later, prove them wrong, i would love for it to work just as well, it's alot more common.

hxxp://juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/tags/hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin

There is a 3 syllable place that rhymes with "T-Rex" that likely has it. Think trappsol, brand names and such. Un-regulated sport supplement suppliers buy the stuff all the time.

As stated by this site, "the one that is the most readily available is HPBCD, NOTE: plain beta-cyclodextrin is of little use." All of the studies that I have seen which complex drug molecules to cyclodextrins all use HPBCD, sometimes I wonder why they even sell plain beta-cyclodextrin?

It has to do with making hydrophobic molecules "water soluble" so that they will absorb into the saliva under tongue, in mouth, to easily transfer right into membranes. Hydoxy-propyl does it the very best, it dissolves the best in saliva.

1. Water

HPBCD is very soluble in water. Substitution of the hydroxyl groups of the BCD disrupts the network of hydrogen bonding around the rim of the BCD. As a result of disruption of the hydrogen-bonding network, the hydroxyl groups interact much more strongly with water resulting in increased solubility compared to BCD. Solubilities of HPBCD are typically listed at >60% at amnbient temperature. As the concentraion becomes higher, viscosity begins to increase and solubility determinations become difficult to perform due to slow filtration rates and at very high solids levels, slow dissolution because of high viscosities making mixing difficult.

Solvents

HPBCD is more soluble in solvents than BCD, but extensive work has not been done to characterize the solubility of HPBCD in solvents. The table below shows the solubility in selected alcohols.

Solubility (g/100ml)

95% ethanol 225g/100ml
isopropanol 152g/100ml

solubility of HPBCD in ethanol-water mixtures:

0% ethanol concentration: 360g/100ml
20% ethanol concentration: 340g/100ml
40% ethanol concentration: 320g/100ml
60% ethanol concentration: 295g/100ml
80% ethanol concentration: 265g/100ml
95% ethanol concentration: 225g/100ml
-------------------------------------
Sublingual administration of testosterone-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin inclusion complex simulates episodic androgen release in hypogonadal men.
Authors
Stuenkel CA, Dudley RE, Yen SS
Institution

Department of Reproductive Medicine, School of Medicine, University of California-San Diego, La Jolla 92093.
Source
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1991 May; 72(5) :1054-9.
Abstract

In search of a more physiological testosterone (T) replacement therapy for hypogonadal states, we evaluated an inclusion complex of T with 2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HPBCD). HPBCD enhances T solubility and absorption, but HPBCD is not absorbed. Five hypogonadal men (mean age, 32.4 +/- 2.3 yr) with serum T levels below the normal range were treated in two separate experimental phases with either a 2.5- or 5.0-mg tablet of sublingual (SL) T-HPBCD three times daily for 7 days. Acute pharmacodynamic changes were monitored at baseline and 10, 20, and 40 min and 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, and 8 h after administration of the first dose. At the 5-mg dose, a maximal concentration (Cmax) of T (85.4 +/- 11.0 nmol/L) was achieved in 20 min (63 +/- 24-fold increase), followed by a rapid decline to below the normal range (less than 12 nmol/L) at 2 h, with an estimated half-life of decline of 1.87 +/- 0.19 h. The dihydrotestosterone (DHT) Cmax (4.1 +/- 0.5 nmol/L) occurred at 32 +/- 5 min (8.9 +/- 1.3-fold increase) and declined to below the normal range (less than 1.2 nmol/L) after 3 h. The integrated 8 h value for the ratio of T/DHT was 10.0 +/- 1.1, which fell within the normal range. The increment in androstenedione paralleled that in T, and the Cmax (6.8 +/- 0.9 nmol/L) was reached in 24 +/- 4 min (2.3 +/- 0.6-fold increase). Compared to baseline, the Cmax was significantly greater for T (P less than 0.005), DHT (P less than 0.0005), and androstenedione (P less than 0.005). Both estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) remained in the normal range (less than 200 pmol/L), although the Cmax for E1 was significantly greater than baseline (P less than 0.05). Serum LH levels were suppressed (19.0 +/- 2.6%) at 2 h (P less than 0.05), without a significant change in FSH. During 7 days of treatment, there was no cumulative increase in basal T, DHT, and E2 levels or further decline in LH or FSH levels. There was no change in sex hormone-binding globulin levels. Similar results were observed with the 2.5-mg dose, suggesting that the capacity of SL absorption may be limited to a certain dose of T-HPBCD. The fluctuations in T after SL administration of T-HPBCD resemble endogenous episodic secretion. We conclude that T, complexed with HPBCD, is rapidly absorbed by the SL route and quickly metabolized without sustained elevations of DHT or E2.

i'll say this stuff is a lot like acid but it's cleaner it does'nt leave me feeling burned out the next day.
also it's really fun i'll start laughing at mundane shit just like tripping on acid.

The binding data on 25i-nbome is found in the last paragraph of the attached file/paper called "INBMe & 5-HT2A" on post #1 (back on page 1 of this thread).

This is the latest psychedelic I'm into: 4-aco-dmt (compare to psilosin which is 4-ho-dmt). It appears to be "the one RC" that is to be ranked among the 3 big classics:

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,2911.0.html

this stuff sounds great but here is hard to come by, but thanx for the bio, although it makes me a tad jealous

Oerlikon what language is that? something slavic? My dad was croation

Off topic:
Not slavic at all.
Close Jon,it's Swiss company famous for his 20mm auto-cannon.
fresh1 your dad is then my compatriot,and no,we do speak Slavic language
but we are not Slavs as most people think,it's just a commie propaganda.