Author Topic: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected  (Read 188 times)

no1uno

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Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« on: April 03, 2012, 12:59:47 PM »
Hmmm, going through a stop-smoking program and got given Zyban 150mg tablets to assist in that regard.

Took the recommended dose and fuck all, I think I smoked more that fortnight than usual, so the continuation pack has been sitting in the medicine cabinet.

I'm working nights now, several nights a week I drive around checking to see if any bogan has broken into buildings (and that sort of shit) for 12-13.5 hours a night. Repetitive as hell, boring as fuck, and kind of tiring...

I decided to see if the useless crap in the cupboard would at least help me stay awake (it is a cathinone after all), so I took 4* 150mg = 600mg of it.

Interesting, I had serious shoulder pain (hangover from physiotherapy) and some discomfort in the lower back, as well as being seriously fatigued. Within about an hour, I was free of discomfort from both the shoulder and back, I was alert (albeit not overly energetic), but a mild buzz (kind of similar to 5-6* 5mg dexamphetamine).

I'm currently busting my hump getting some essays done, so I tried another 600mg dose which is doing similar to before - like then, I would compare it to a mild dexie buzz.

That said, I'm kind of fund of the ol' dexie buzz (especially now I'm older myself)... ;)

PS Must put some thought into what would happen if that benzylic ketone were reduced to give the N-t-butyl-m-chloroamphetamine. I have several papers on the ability of either the Birch-Benkesser or even HI to fuck off a benzylic (only benzylic) ketone, I wonder if the ring Cl would survive?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 01:04:21 PM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

fishinabottle

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2012, 02:08:42 PM »
I suppose you are aware of the risk of seizures which comes with bupropione? Which rises 10-fold when increasing the dosage from 300mg to 600mg?

Having this said and shed my duty of warning to my experiences:

- As stimulant it is nothing to me, I took doses up to 1g+ without feeling really more awake, I felt still exhausted but could hardly sleep.
- To cease or reduce smoking it is great though. Start with 150mg a day, 300mg after 3 days and 450mg after 6 days, all in the morning. Don´t think about smoking more or less just go on as usual. After two weeks you will smoke less and less, kill cigarettes after one or two puffs and start to feel that cigs are actually really not good in taste and anything. After three weeks it is easy to quit (do this in timews of low stress levels thats understood) if you want to and then just quit. No withdrawal whatsoever. Thats how I know it, ok, I take it for depression but I reduced smoking to 1/3 or 1/5 depending on social activities.
It works basically still the same as in the beginning.
It is just that amph or better dex works so much better for me, except that it is illiigal here and very hard to get by prescription. (Meth is only good for fun from time to time as I dont like tweaking at all).

Great if it has an amph touch for you, I wish I could say the same for me  :'(

And it makes immunoessay type drug-screenings positive on amph (not good test strips and of course not in GC).

But to alter it chemically? Cannot see what sense this makes, it is prescription and not really cheap. Not to talk that I took today a look on our favorite police cooperating auction page and found that I could order there everything needed for making P2P in bulk and cheap from legit shops (and not necessarily using the account on the page). Thats in Europe, sorry my imperialistic friends, regard it as the revenge for McDonalds and EuroDisney ;)
So if altering bupropione nevertheless one has to take really care not to increase the convulsive properties anymore - I am not sure which part of the compound is responsible and I don´t want to find it out and also not others to find out the bad way. So if this new stuff does not promise some serious advantages over Dex for example I think it is not worth the risk. I spent the last year several months very close with an epileptic (not really voluntarily) and now I am scared of seizures (before I did not spend one thought on this possibility). But thats really bad.

good luck and fun with the zybans..
/ORG

no1uno

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2012, 05:40:58 PM »
reduce it, get rid of the t-butyl amine and you have m-chlorophenylpropan-1-ol-2-one (unless the reduction or the hydrolysis of the reduced alkaloid goes as expected - in which case the pot would contain m-chlorophenyl-2-propanone (Paper attached on the H2SO4 hydrolysis of ephedrines to give P2P's). Cannot think of what to do with them at all;D

There is also the fact that 3-chloroamphetamine is apparently rather potent.

I actually thought to myself, the inherent difficulty in sourcing enough pills should stop anyone using this on an industrial scale... Whoops, like tweakers would hesitate for a moment when it comes to extracting a precursor from a pill.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 09:59:04 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

fishinabottle

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2012, 08:49:13 PM »
450mg/day which I don´t use as long as I get my hands on amph or better dex and face no drug screening (every three months), makes quite a lot of pills (which are full of Bitrex btw, bäh!), but it comes only to about 12g a month but the gram costs me only 14 cent (€). Maybe I at least save them in future and don´t give them away to people anymore who think they quit smoking but never will....  :-\

But pill extraction! The disgrace! If the neighbors get to know of it nobody will talk to me again! Then I am done! What to do?  ;)

jon

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 10:47:19 PM »
the problem with wellbutrin is that it can precipitate a very dysphoric agitated manic state at least for me this is no good with bipolar disorder.

no1uno

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2012, 11:55:52 PM »
450mg/day which I don´t use as long as I get my hands on amph or better dex and face no drug screening (every three months), makes quite a lot of pills (which are full of Bitrex btw, bäh!), but it comes only to about 12g a month but the gram costs me only 14 cent (€). Maybe I at least save them in future and don´t give them away to people anymore who think they quit smoking but never will....  :-\

But pill extraction! The disgrace! If the neighbors get to know of it nobody will talk to me again! Then I am done! What to do?  ;)

I agree wholeheartedly, I suffer from sinus (badly at times) and get scripts for Pse - the shame the utter disgrace when the chemist accuses me of using PILLS:'<... I feel like telling them there are better ways of doing things (so please, just give me my fucking Pse and shut the fuck up), but that probably wouldn't be a good move.

Jon, manic states of one or more flavours are about the best I can hope for, with or without medication. I've been diagnosed with BPD, but more recently there is some strong suggestions that PTSD would be the better diagnosis (due to a bucketload of incidents that come with certain territories that I neglected to mention when the shrinks were trying to suss out wtf was happening). We relive shit to learn from it, getting all antsy and fearful about shit that is long since dead and not real anymore is not the right way to deal with it I've learned. But my inability to reach that approach earlier in life may be why I don't sleep (or rest when I do) well, or why I didn't at least. In my case it is simple, when the same thing happens multiple times with the same results, there is no point suggesting it is an anomaly. It is hard wiring, learn to deal with it, learn from it and move forward. That gets rid of a fuckload of dysphoria from medications and life in general.

PS Bitrex, so that is the fucking awful taste I get, aha!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 12:09:36 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 05:37:29 PM »
Assumedly you've tried MDMA for the PTSD? PTSD is a real bitch, you can forget you even have it while your behavior remains fucked up. Really can ruin your life... feel ya there.
Someone Who Is Me

no1uno

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 04:15:13 AM »
Yeah, it did that for a decade or so... Funny really, I was going round the fucking twist bigtime seeing psychobabblers and the rest, and never thought to connect the symptoms with several truly & seriously fucking traumatic incidents at the beginning of that period (despite dreaming about the fuckers incessantly throughout the entire period)... Big fucking "AHA!!" moment a bit over 18 months ago (since getting hurt), when - while going through a 'princess moment' admittedly - I asked myself "WHY? Why the fuck does this shit keep happening?", fortunately I asked a psychartiste the same question and told her the history and what I thought... I was wrong, but she thought there might be 'some' connection between the history and the outcome. Go figure (till then I thought it was all bullshit)
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

jon

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 12:33:11 AM »
noone you might want to consider marijuana too it helps you forget benzodiazepines have this effect and can also help with ptsd.
but mdma therapy can "reset" the brain.
i noticed this when i get depressed and take mdma i'm not depressed anymore.

no1uno

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2013, 05:15:45 AM »
Ok, we have the news that m-chloroamphetamine (http://bitnest.ca/external.php?id=%257DbxUfY%255BC%2540%251B%2505rz%257F%2519%2505P%255CR%251CU%2540pz%257EQ%2507izA%2540%257F%257F9) is pretty fucking strong (the N-methyl version would be stronger again) and in the references section we'll find that the aqueous stability of bupropion in aqueous/acidic solutions is poor to piss-poor. Now, they all oxidized by running a single-phase, whereas if there were a 2-phase system running, the dione, or the hydroxyketone would both be extracted into it.* In any event, they could be converted into the 3-chlorophenyl2-propanone by known methods. How many grams of this shite do we have lying around between us Org?

* Note I can find fuck all on the actual pharmacology of this drug or the N-methoxy variant, use at own risk. Then again, there are studies that state that the 3-substituted amphetamines are not anywhere near as problematic as the p-substituted analogues at decreasing monoamines in brain and 5-HT depletion (http://www.scribd.com/doc/56762757/Structure-Activity-Relationships-Among-the-Halogen-at-Ed-Amphetamines-1978). In fact the paper suggests that they have little to no effect on 5-HT or Serotonin levels unlike P-CA/P-CMA.

** PS For your information it isn't bitrex, they are formulated with Lysine which accounts for that lovely mercaptan taste.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:25:47 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

fishinabottle

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 08:52:28 AM »
Its "Elontril" what I have prescribed, not Wellbutrin or Zyban. Would have to grab me a fresh fill as I was not using them for some time now, no problem, 20€ and 40g Bupropion.

The Elontril are with Bitrex, I am very sure about this.

I would like to read about a bioassay though before starting, I meanwhile came to the conclusion that Methamphetamine is a class of its own unreached by any other compound (albeit I heard good things about phenmetrazine). And the neurotoxic effects of meth are easiliy annihilated by selene supplements, so ....

But I just these days aquired a complete NS 14,5 set for small scale experiments including vacuum distillation and this sounds like a decent testing ground, I will make my doctor write the prescription next time I see him.

If you, no1uno, some day have time and patience for suggesting a complete reaction scheme, no hurry though, that would be great, as I have not and reading into all this and figuring it out is not on my schedule for the next months.
A little cooking is something else  ;)

regards
/ORG

no1uno

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Re: Zyban/Wellbutrin - Interesting & kinda unexpected
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2013, 05:25:29 AM »
Time poor my friend, I am currently finishing several subjects for a Masters, in order to proceed to a Masters by Research then perhaps a floppy hat in emergency management (think of it, me lecturing LE). I will get there, right at the moment I'm looking into monomethylation of phenethylamine so I can reduce it with Li/iPrOH/NH3 and forming the amide with homoanisic acid. Homoanisic acid and POCl3 are the bugbears of the reaction, the other components should be well and truly worked out (although I intend to try some of the MW variations to see if they are more home-chemistry friendly).

"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."