I found out recently that elymoclavine and agroclavine, both making up about 45% combined of the total alkaloids in heavenly blue mg seeds, excited animals even more than LSD in experiments done by Yui and Yuji in 1958.....got a copy of the 4 page paper and read it front to back, Jap. J. Pharmacology. 7, 157 (1958). Seperate recent radioligand binding studies have shown that agroclavine agonizes 5-HT1A, 5-HT2, and dopamine receptors, just as LSD does.
I'll give the study which quotes the 45% percent of elymoclavine + agroclavine component of heavenly blue mg seeds further below. The sedating LSA and ergometrine make up about 48% of the seed's alkaloids (Witters, Sci 1975).
It is theorized by many researchers (even Shulgin brings this up and even the seldom faulted Merck index) that the "clavines" may be the active psychedelic components of the seeds. I believe nature may have put the approximate 48% combined LSA/iso-lsa/ergometrine in there just to counteract the stimulation of those clavine alkaloids, LSA being the schedule III sedative that it is....nature did this on purpose. makes me wonder....yin and yang...even peyote and trico. macrogonus have sedating alkaloids in them along with the stimulating mescaline.
we have grown away from mescaline + 25i-nbome entirely, as both are in a sense "stimulants", and when either dose of either one gets too high, the trip can really suck and get too physical and stimulating.
We have since come to love mescaline all by itself, and both agree it works the best all on it's own, and not to distort the perfect mescaline trip by adding in un-necessary 25i-nbome. However, an idea struck me of a use for 25i-nbome, that would be taking it in a very very low dose along with LSA/clavine alkaloids from morning glory extractions.
5-HT2A agonism is stimulating while 5-HT1A agonism is inhibitory and shuts down serotonin firing, LSD and mescaline all target 5-HT1A receptors with super great intensity (1.1um) but LSD only targets 5-HT2A with "moderate" intensity (3.5um), while mescaline goes about targeting the adrenal system to achieve effects similar to 5-HT2A agonism. The closer the number is to 0.0, the stronger the receptor binding. That is precisely what 25i-nbome lacks, it has NO affinity for 5-HT1A but does have the super great affinity for 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C.
If we could only add 5-HT1A agonism (5-HT1A receptors make up 80% of the brain's total 5-HT receptors) to the 5-HT2A/ht2C 25i-nbome experience! if only.....there is a way, you can add in mescaline to the 25i-nbome trip, but you're mescaline is much better saved for use all by itself......but why not LSA and clavine alkaloids from the morning glory? they...like all ergolines target 5-HT1A receptors with great affinity (just take a look at "LSD and it's lysergamide cousins" the paper by Nichols at heffter.org)
If this does not work for 25i-nbome, i will surely throw it away, as 25i-nbome all on it's own is simply a "play thing" imho....and totally lacks the spiritual and meditative/serene qualities of LSD.
4.00=max affinity, anything below 2.00 is barely perceptable:
LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5h2a, 3.16 d3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 alpha2a, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 d2, 2.39 d4, 2.34 d1, 2.05 d5, 1.54 alpha1a, 1.40 h1, 1.39 beta1, 1.05 beta2, 0.65 alpha1b.
mescaline: 4.00 alpha2c, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 alpha2a.
25i-nbome: 4.00 5ht2a, 3.97 5ht2c, 2.xx 5ht6
I recently fumbled across an LSA + 2ce trip report in erowid at the same time I was thinking of combining LSA's + 25i-nbome. The author of the report mentions the perfect spiritual trip that resulted see at the bottom of this thread.
The sedating trip of LSA's is similar to the "mind trip" of LSD but just needs a little help i believe from 25i-nbome to raise the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c visual activity, and to counteract the sedation of the LSA in the morning glory extract, to make a trip that is at least awake and a little bit stimulating like LSD, with more "visual power" think of it as a "super LSA".
The LSA and clavine alkaloids in the morning glory extracts all target the 5-ht1A receptors, dopamine receptors, 5-ht7, 5-ht6, etc. very well, however the 5-ht2A/2c activity is a wee bit low, and could be raised by adding in some 25i-nbome to the mix.
The idea is to keep the 25i-nbome dose very low (say 100 to 300ug) and to add it in just enough so that it is "midway" in power as compared to the 5-HT1 activity of the morning glory extract, LSD activates 5-ht1a receptors with an intense "1.0" on the radio-ligand while it activates the 5-ht2A receptor at only "3.5", we want the 5-HT1 activity or the morning glory extract activity to be strong compared to the 25i-nbome dose, which we want very low.
we allready know from hundreds of reports that LSA extracts (especially alcohol extracts, in which only the agroclavine, elymcloclavine, and chanoclavine are soluble) gives a wonderful mind-trip similar to LSD, all it needs is a little "5-ht2A" boost from the 25i-nbome to really bring out the visuals. There is a report from erowid of LSA's + 2ce that was a spiritual paradise of a trip.
The main ingredients in morning glory are:
Note that elymoclavine, agroclavine and chanoclavine are only soluble in alcohol (and sparingly soluble in water), so it's probably a good idea to extract into grain alcohol or if you use a cold water extraction, to be sure to add 0.1% tartaric acid (dash) to reach ph=4, this will convert the alkaloids to the water soluble salts, but without adding the tartaric acid, the water will mostly only extract the LSA, giving a "sedation only" trip without the psychedelic clavine alkaloids.
Most people who eat the seeds trip well, but get mostly only sedation when they extract into plain water, that's because they are leaving behind the stimulating clavine alkaloids which cause people to trip (the clavines are soluble in alcohol but not very soluble in water at all unless it is made acidic with tartaric acid or similar)...i believe the LSA sedative is only in the seeds to counteract the stimulation of the clavine alkaloids. Nature did this on purpose.
The below is from the paper by Weldon L. Witers on Heavenly
Blue (ipomoea violacea L.) "extraction and identification of clavine and lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glories, Ohio J. Sci 75 (4): 198. 1975:
stimulating alkaloids found in morning glory (similar to lsd):
---------------------------------------------------------
elymoclavine = 17% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with elymoclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.
agroclavine = 28% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed than when animals were injected with agroclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when they were give LSD.
chanoclavine = 7% of heavenly blue mg = 1975 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected wth chanoclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.
sedating alkaloids found in morning glory:
LSA/iso-LSA = 23% of heavenly blue mg = sedative (schedule III in fact) definite sedative action. I believe it is in the seeds to "counteract" the stimulation from the clavine alkaloids above which are probably fully responsible for most all the psychedelic action of the seeds. when animals were given the clavine alkaloids in isolation, they responded as if they had been given LSD in the 1957 Takeo study.
ergometrine = 25% of heavenly blue mg = high doses are entheogenic but also cause tired-ness, cramping...ie bigwood, jeremy experiments with.
---------------------------------------------------------
The above experiments with mice, rabbits, cats and dogs who were injected with elymoclavine, agroclavine, chanoclavine alkaloids from morning glory can be found in "Neuropharmacological studies on a new series of ergot alkaloids" "Elymoclavine as a potent analeptic on reserpine-sedation" by tohoru Yui and Yuji Takeo, Hyg 911/LSD 494, Jap. J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 (1958). Jap. J. Pharmacol 7, 157-161 (1958).
From the 1958 paper:
Quote
All members of the excitor group produced in
all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group,
elymoclavine, was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost
equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on
reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.
tacethno.com:
Quote
Animal experiments have shown that elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD
and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene have excitory
effects on the central nervous system (Yui & Takeo, 1958) as
well as lysergic acid hydrosyethylamide which also excites the
central nervous system in animals (Glasser, 1961). The effects of
agroclavine are similar to those of elymoclavine and LSD on
rabbits (Yui & Takeo, 1958), indicating that the effect of
agroclavine may well be psychoactive in humans as well. It also
seems likely that agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine,
lysergine and lysergene and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide will
be psychoactive in humans.
looked up the radio-ligand binding data for agroclavine for example, and this is what I found:
agroclavine binds to 5-HT1A receptors with 0.14uM binding affinity
agroclavine binds to 5-HT2 receptors with 0.27uM binding affinity
agroclavine binds to dopamine receptors with 0.89uM binding affinity
25i-nbome binds to 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C with very high binding affinity (highest ever discovered, 100x more potent than LSD at the 5-ht2A receptor).
will be making 95% etoh (grain alcohol) freezing cold extracts of morning glory seeds to get all the agroclavine, elymoclavine, lyergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide, chanoclavine, LSA and iso-lsa, ergometrine out of them, will also add a dash of 99% DL tartaric acid to the powder to quickly convert the alkaloids to the salts (this will also greatly aid the extraction) so they will absorb into the alcohol quickly, then will not break down when stored in the fridge or freezer.
By taking the extract of morning glory seeds first, then taking the 25i-nbome at 100 to 300ug dosage (very low) should give a trip very similar to LSD.
Terscheckii said:
Quote
what is nbome + mescaline like compared to LSD + mescaline?
I wouldn't waste your mescaline with 25i-nbome, mescaline (rare as it is) is a stimulant and 25i-nbome is a stimulant, mescaline works the best on it's own, especially at 350+ mg dosages...it needs nothing else.
25i-nbome can be combined with mescaline, but only low dose mescaline (mescaline dosage below 300mg only)....it gives a trip similar to acid, but a pure mescaline trip is a much better approximation of acid! 450mg mescaline all by itself felt very similar to 150ug of acid to me on my last trip....whereas 25i-nbome + mescaline is "ok" at simulating acid, but is actually too much stimulation if the dosages get to high on either one of them...we don't do this anymore...we only take mescaline all by itself at high doses.
The only use I have for 25i-nbome now is to combine it with LSA/clavine ergoline extracts perhaps...the sedating trip of the LSA's hopefully will go perfectly with the stimulation of the 25i-nbome 5ht2a/2c activity, will have to find out.
morning glory.1
---------------
Consider these excerpts from an Erowid experience report:
Quote
Having read someone's description of a cold water extraction, I decided to try it one day. I've tried this method several times and will describe my best trip to date following these notes…
I've found that the ideal dose for my body weight (5'9, 200 lb.) is 30 grams of seeds. I TRIPPED HARD AS HELL.
We saw geometric patterns in everything…
It ranked up there with the best trips of my life, and that includes Mescaline, LSD, and Mushrooms. The trip lasted for about 8 hours and seemed to peak at about 3 hours. Unlike an acid trip where I peak rapidly and then come down fast, this is more like I peak slowly, level off, and then come down slow. I am always in control of my faculties, and I could lay down and sleep anytime during the trip, I'm that relaxed.
Some of the success full trips I have read about used 10grams of the seeds and involved hallucinations that were very real looking as well as colors and patters. The word hallucination being far more apt for the experience than it is for LSD, which as Shulgin says causes visual phenomena. I read at Erowid that there are about "35 seeds per gram for rough estimates"
-----------------
morningloryseed:
Quote
Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its
natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is
a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids
are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they
normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into
water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably
are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not
extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they
get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract
is performed and they are thrown away.
Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why
the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seed or baby
woodrose seed feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In
my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more
than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find
them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects
are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.
The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the
trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared
m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports.
So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling.
Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed
questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted
that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as
eating the whole seeds.
The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel
great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best
psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different
ones.
Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more
complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different
LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination
of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.
The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others
(up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide
(closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in
the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a
very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is
(in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is
different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they
are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.
Merck:
Quote
agroclavine: Soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble. Natural branches exist in ergot fungus ergot bacteria (Claviceps purpurea (Fr.) Tulasne) parasitic grass in rye (Secale cereale L.) plants ovary formed by the sclerotia (LSD). Available chemical or biological synthesis in.
Chemist Peter Webster "sacred mushrooms of the goddess":
Quote
chanoclavine is almost totally insoluble in water.
Here is what Wasson had to say about the preparation:
Quote
In recent years a number of experimenters have taken the Rives seeds with no effects, and this has led one of them to suggest that the reputation of ololiuhqui is due wholly to auto-suggestion? These negative results may be explained by inadequate preparation. The Indians grind the seeds on the rnetate (grinding stone) until they are reduced to flour. Then the flour is soaked in cold water, and after a short time the liquor is passed through a cloth strainer and drunk. If taken whole, the seeds give no result, or even if they are cracked. They must be ground to flour and then the flour soaked briefly in water. Perhaps those who took the seeds without results did not grind them, or did not grind them fine enough, and did not soak the resulting flour. The chemistry of the seeds seems not to vary from region to region, and seeds grown in the Antilles and in Europe are as potent as those grown in Oaxaca. I have taken the black seeds twice in my home in New York, and their potency is undeniable.
-----------------
Torsten:
Quote
the problems with various researchers not being able to get effects from various potent Convolvulaceae can in most cases be tracked down to two issues:
1) seed was old
2) the extraction method allowed oxidation
Point one has been shown time and time again with Rivea seeds, which are simply no longer active after a few weeks/months. I have nibbled both fresh Rivea and Ipomoea seeds straight off the vine and got mild effects even from just a few seeds, however never had any decent effects from stored seed.
Point two is probably the greater variable. I had a friend in germany who spend literally hundreds of kilos of HBWR to try and work out a way to make a stable extract. He found out the hard way that any applications of heat or any exposure of the extract to air would render it useless (he was trying to make a dry powder extract for encapsulating). In the end he settled on an alcoholic extract as this was one of the few forms that stayed potent. Plain water extracts often lose the potency in a matter of hours to days. Saliva extracts almost universally fail.
One important aspect of extraction seems to be particle size. Fine powders are much more productive than chewed seeds. This is reinforced by the fact that swallowing the (5 minutes) chewed seeds will provide more than 50% of the potency.
Extracts have since been made in europe and marketed there, but they employ full extraction under the same conditions as listed in the literature for LSD production and the conversion to the tartrate before marketing. The tartrates of Lysergic compounds are well known to be stable while most other salts aren't. Surely this might apply to calystegines as well, but that would be another great coincidence.
I do not believe the calystegines are responsible for the main effect. They may well be responsible for the after effects or underlying effects, and also for the effects of really old seeds. All of these effects are very similar, while quite different from LSD. Then again, lysergic acid amide (singular!) effects are also more of the sedating nature rather than visionary. I think we will find the main active to be an amide of lysergic acid, but not lysergic acid amide itself.
Are the calystegines in Stipa robusta? cos I've had good effects from Stipa and they were very much like relatively fresh woodrose seeds.
-------------------------
Quote
Spiritual Ecstasy
LSA & 2C-E
by klanonymous
DOSE: T+ 0:00 oral LSA
T+ 1:45 20 mg 2C-E
BODY WEIGHT: 170 lb
Spiritual Ecstasy
I've taken LSA+2C-E once before and it was a great trip, but this second trip was far more intense and infinitely more satisfying. Since LSA has such a long come-up, I dosed in the sequence shown below hoping to get the two peaks to coincide.
T+0:00 5-HTP 200mg (oral), LSA 210mg (~12.5 seeds) (oral)
T+1:45 2C-E 20mg, LSA 90mg (~5 seeds)
On my previous LSA+2C-E experience, I came to terms with the fact that I pursue psychedelic states hoping to achieve something spiritually fulfilling and not merely entertaining. Though I've had many very revealing trips before, there has never been that great ecstatic and blissful moment of epiphany and understanding I have so longed after. After this experience, I realized, perhaps the whole of my life experience, encompassing all sober and psychedelic states, may have been the Universe conspiring and preparing me for this particular inward journey-- a perfect moment in time.
The night began around 8pm, when two very good friends arrived at the house, one of whom would be partaking in what I can only hope was a similar journey. The other, my roommate, chose to remain sober on the occasion, but hopes to replicate a similar trip soon.
As we waited for the first dose to begin to come on, we listened to music, sat around, and soaked in the last bit of sobriety we thought we would have over the next several hours. To both of our surprise, the sober character of our minds remained minimally altered throughout our trip, only adding to the beauty and complexity of our experiences.
Up to the point that we took our second dosing (T+1:45), we had both failed to experience the visuals normally associated with these types of psychoactives, however, we were both in agreement that we were experiencing a strong, but not super natural, euphoria and an intense freedom of both thought and experience. Communication among all three of us was surprisingly fluid, uninterrupted, and uninhibited. We were also struck with those general feelings of beauty, and were basking in the intense awe that only Life inspires.
Within 20 minutes of our second dosing, we noticed a very intense and speedy climb to the plateau we would soon enjoy for several hours. The words I've found most worthy to describe this climatic plateau of my life is Spiritual Ecstasy. I don't consider myself an overly spiritual guy, but I can think of no other words to fit the infinite ecstasy that followed.
We had just gotten back from a short walk around the block where we had smoked several cigarettes while enjoying the fresh air, if you'll forgive such an obvious paradox. While we were out in cold, my sober friend had apparently also been conspiring with the Universe to make the Perfect musical selection for our return. We came back into the warmth to be greeted by the sonic vibrations of 'Souvlaki Space Station' by Slowdrive. (An album and song that I now must insist you buy, borrow, or steal.)
Nearly as soon as I had taken off my coat, scarf, and hat, I found my self writhing on the carpeted floor as wave after wave of ecstatic joy, love, and human experience washed over me. With eyes open or closed, I saw the tapestries of human experience and emotion unfurl and expand over every element of my consciousness, every ugly and beautiful thing, and every perfect thing in between. All internal resistance had been dissolved, my mind had become a superconductor, a master conduit, to all of existence. If I have ever lived an enlightened moment, this was surely it.
This state continued for several hours before beginning to wane. I was at a moment concerned to lose this moment of continuous beauty and perfection, but soon realized that the knowledge and memory of it's existence alone would persist for a life time.
It is possible that this experience was unique to this moment in space and time, but even so, I will remain forever grateful to have at once quelled the currents of life, peered across the great blue divide, and seen even a glimpse of the golden shore that one can only hope awaits us all.
Exp Year: 2007 ID: 60244
Gender: Male
Added: Feb 28, 2007 Views: 12253
I'll give the study which quotes the 45% percent of elymoclavine + agroclavine component of heavenly blue mg seeds further below. The sedating LSA and ergometrine make up about 48% of the seed's alkaloids (Witters, Sci 1975).
It is theorized by many researchers (even Shulgin brings this up and even the seldom faulted Merck index) that the "clavines" may be the active psychedelic components of the seeds. I believe nature may have put the approximate 48% combined LSA/iso-lsa/ergometrine in there just to counteract the stimulation of those clavine alkaloids, LSA being the schedule III sedative that it is....nature did this on purpose. makes me wonder....yin and yang...even peyote and trico. macrogonus have sedating alkaloids in them along with the stimulating mescaline.
we have grown away from mescaline + 25i-nbome entirely, as both are in a sense "stimulants", and when either dose of either one gets too high, the trip can really suck and get too physical and stimulating.
We have since come to love mescaline all by itself, and both agree it works the best all on it's own, and not to distort the perfect mescaline trip by adding in un-necessary 25i-nbome. However, an idea struck me of a use for 25i-nbome, that would be taking it in a very very low dose along with LSA/clavine alkaloids from morning glory extractions.
5-HT2A agonism is stimulating while 5-HT1A agonism is inhibitory and shuts down serotonin firing, LSD and mescaline all target 5-HT1A receptors with super great intensity (1.1um) but LSD only targets 5-HT2A with "moderate" intensity (3.5um), while mescaline goes about targeting the adrenal system to achieve effects similar to 5-HT2A agonism. The closer the number is to 0.0, the stronger the receptor binding. That is precisely what 25i-nbome lacks, it has NO affinity for 5-HT1A but does have the super great affinity for 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C.
If we could only add 5-HT1A agonism (5-HT1A receptors make up 80% of the brain's total 5-HT receptors) to the 5-HT2A/ht2C 25i-nbome experience! if only.....there is a way, you can add in mescaline to the 25i-nbome trip, but you're mescaline is much better saved for use all by itself......but why not LSA and clavine alkaloids from the morning glory? they...like all ergolines target 5-HT1A receptors with great affinity (just take a look at "LSD and it's lysergamide cousins" the paper by Nichols at heffter.org)
If this does not work for 25i-nbome, i will surely throw it away, as 25i-nbome all on it's own is simply a "play thing" imho....and totally lacks the spiritual and meditative/serene qualities of LSD.
4.00=max affinity, anything below 2.00 is barely perceptable:
LSD: 4.00 5ht1b, 3.77 5ht7, 3.75 5ht6, 3.73 5ht1a, 3.70 5ht1d, 3.64 5ht5a, 3.54 5h2a, 3.16 d3, 3.11 5ht2b, 3.11 5ht2c, 2.93 alpha2a, 2.62 5ht1e, 2.55 d2, 2.39 d4, 2.34 d1, 2.05 d5, 1.54 alpha1a, 1.40 h1, 1.39 beta1, 1.05 beta2, 0.65 alpha1b.
mescaline: 4.00 alpha2c, 3.97 5ht2b, 3.61 5ht1a, 3.44 imidazoline1, 3.16 5ht1e, 2.92 alpha2a.
25i-nbome: 4.00 5ht2a, 3.97 5ht2c, 2.xx 5ht6
I recently fumbled across an LSA + 2ce trip report in erowid at the same time I was thinking of combining LSA's + 25i-nbome. The author of the report mentions the perfect spiritual trip that resulted see at the bottom of this thread.
The sedating trip of LSA's is similar to the "mind trip" of LSD but just needs a little help i believe from 25i-nbome to raise the 5-ht2a/5-ht2c visual activity, and to counteract the sedation of the LSA in the morning glory extract, to make a trip that is at least awake and a little bit stimulating like LSD, with more "visual power" think of it as a "super LSA".
The LSA and clavine alkaloids in the morning glory extracts all target the 5-ht1A receptors, dopamine receptors, 5-ht7, 5-ht6, etc. very well, however the 5-ht2A/2c activity is a wee bit low, and could be raised by adding in some 25i-nbome to the mix.
The idea is to keep the 25i-nbome dose very low (say 100 to 300ug) and to add it in just enough so that it is "midway" in power as compared to the 5-HT1 activity of the morning glory extract, LSD activates 5-ht1a receptors with an intense "1.0" on the radio-ligand while it activates the 5-ht2A receptor at only "3.5", we want the 5-HT1 activity or the morning glory extract activity to be strong compared to the 25i-nbome dose, which we want very low.
we allready know from hundreds of reports that LSA extracts (especially alcohol extracts, in which only the agroclavine, elymcloclavine, and chanoclavine are soluble) gives a wonderful mind-trip similar to LSD, all it needs is a little "5-ht2A" boost from the 25i-nbome to really bring out the visuals. There is a report from erowid of LSA's + 2ce that was a spiritual paradise of a trip.
The main ingredients in morning glory are:
Note that elymoclavine, agroclavine and chanoclavine are only soluble in alcohol (and sparingly soluble in water), so it's probably a good idea to extract into grain alcohol or if you use a cold water extraction, to be sure to add 0.1% tartaric acid (dash) to reach ph=4, this will convert the alkaloids to the water soluble salts, but without adding the tartaric acid, the water will mostly only extract the LSA, giving a "sedation only" trip without the psychedelic clavine alkaloids.
Most people who eat the seeds trip well, but get mostly only sedation when they extract into plain water, that's because they are leaving behind the stimulating clavine alkaloids which cause people to trip (the clavines are soluble in alcohol but not very soluble in water at all unless it is made acidic with tartaric acid or similar)...i believe the LSA sedative is only in the seeds to counteract the stimulation of the clavine alkaloids. Nature did this on purpose.
The below is from the paper by Weldon L. Witers on Heavenly
Blue (ipomoea violacea L.) "extraction and identification of clavine and lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glories, Ohio J. Sci 75 (4): 198. 1975:
stimulating alkaloids found in morning glory (similar to lsd):
---------------------------------------------------------
elymoclavine = 17% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected with elymoclavine, that they were stimulated MORE than when they were given LSD.
agroclavine = 28% of heavenly blue mg = 1957 paper from Yui Takeo showed than when animals were injected with agroclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when they were give LSD.
chanoclavine = 7% of heavenly blue mg = 1975 paper from Yui Takeo showed that when animals were injected wth chanoclavine, that they were stimulated just as much as when given LSD.
sedating alkaloids found in morning glory:
LSA/iso-LSA = 23% of heavenly blue mg = sedative (schedule III in fact) definite sedative action. I believe it is in the seeds to "counteract" the stimulation from the clavine alkaloids above which are probably fully responsible for most all the psychedelic action of the seeds. when animals were given the clavine alkaloids in isolation, they responded as if they had been given LSD in the 1957 Takeo study.
ergometrine = 25% of heavenly blue mg = high doses are entheogenic but also cause tired-ness, cramping...ie bigwood, jeremy experiments with.
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The above experiments with mice, rabbits, cats and dogs who were injected with elymoclavine, agroclavine, chanoclavine alkaloids from morning glory can be found in "Neuropharmacological studies on a new series of ergot alkaloids" "Elymoclavine as a potent analeptic on reserpine-sedation" by tohoru Yui and Yuji Takeo, Hyg 911/LSD 494, Jap. J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 (1958). Jap. J. Pharmacol 7, 157-161 (1958).
From the 1958 paper:
Quote
All members of the excitor group produced in
all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group,
elymoclavine, was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost
equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on
reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.
tacethno.com:
Quote
Animal experiments have shown that elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD
and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, lysergine and lysergene have excitory
effects on the central nervous system (Yui & Takeo, 1958) as
well as lysergic acid hydrosyethylamide which also excites the
central nervous system in animals (Glasser, 1961). The effects of
agroclavine are similar to those of elymoclavine and LSD on
rabbits (Yui & Takeo, 1958), indicating that the effect of
agroclavine may well be psychoactive in humans as well. It also
seems likely that agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine,
lysergine and lysergene and lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide will
be psychoactive in humans.
looked up the radio-ligand binding data for agroclavine for example, and this is what I found:
agroclavine binds to 5-HT1A receptors with 0.14uM binding affinity
agroclavine binds to 5-HT2 receptors with 0.27uM binding affinity
agroclavine binds to dopamine receptors with 0.89uM binding affinity
25i-nbome binds to 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C with very high binding affinity (highest ever discovered, 100x more potent than LSD at the 5-ht2A receptor).
will be making 95% etoh (grain alcohol) freezing cold extracts of morning glory seeds to get all the agroclavine, elymoclavine, lyergic-acid-hydroxyethylamide, chanoclavine, LSA and iso-lsa, ergometrine out of them, will also add a dash of 99% DL tartaric acid to the powder to quickly convert the alkaloids to the salts (this will also greatly aid the extraction) so they will absorb into the alcohol quickly, then will not break down when stored in the fridge or freezer.
By taking the extract of morning glory seeds first, then taking the 25i-nbome at 100 to 300ug dosage (very low) should give a trip very similar to LSD.
Terscheckii said:
Quote
what is nbome + mescaline like compared to LSD + mescaline?
I wouldn't waste your mescaline with 25i-nbome, mescaline (rare as it is) is a stimulant and 25i-nbome is a stimulant, mescaline works the best on it's own, especially at 350+ mg dosages...it needs nothing else.
25i-nbome can be combined with mescaline, but only low dose mescaline (mescaline dosage below 300mg only)....it gives a trip similar to acid, but a pure mescaline trip is a much better approximation of acid! 450mg mescaline all by itself felt very similar to 150ug of acid to me on my last trip....whereas 25i-nbome + mescaline is "ok" at simulating acid, but is actually too much stimulation if the dosages get to high on either one of them...we don't do this anymore...we only take mescaline all by itself at high doses.
The only use I have for 25i-nbome now is to combine it with LSA/clavine ergoline extracts perhaps...the sedating trip of the LSA's hopefully will go perfectly with the stimulation of the 25i-nbome 5ht2a/2c activity, will have to find out.
morning glory.1
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Consider these excerpts from an Erowid experience report:
Quote
Having read someone's description of a cold water extraction, I decided to try it one day. I've tried this method several times and will describe my best trip to date following these notes…
I've found that the ideal dose for my body weight (5'9, 200 lb.) is 30 grams of seeds. I TRIPPED HARD AS HELL.
We saw geometric patterns in everything…
It ranked up there with the best trips of my life, and that includes Mescaline, LSD, and Mushrooms. The trip lasted for about 8 hours and seemed to peak at about 3 hours. Unlike an acid trip where I peak rapidly and then come down fast, this is more like I peak slowly, level off, and then come down slow. I am always in control of my faculties, and I could lay down and sleep anytime during the trip, I'm that relaxed.
Some of the success full trips I have read about used 10grams of the seeds and involved hallucinations that were very real looking as well as colors and patters. The word hallucination being far more apt for the experience than it is for LSD, which as Shulgin says causes visual phenomena. I read at Erowid that there are about "35 seeds per gram for rough estimates"
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morningloryseed:
Quote
Unlike most alkaloids, LSA is water soluble when it is in its
natural, freebase state...the way it is found in the seeds. it is
a rare, exception to a rule because by simple definition, alkaloids
are very alkaline or basic when in their freebase form as they
normally occur in plants. Thus, they do not dissolve well into
water. Most likely, many of the other ergoline akaloids probably
are not water-soluble in their freebase form and thus are not
extracted from the ground seed matter when a "tea" is made. or they
get dissolved into the non-polar solvent used when an A/B extract
is performed and they are thrown away.
Thus, extracts have a different mix of alkaloids and that is why
the trip from A/B extracts or a "tea" of m. g. seed or baby
woodrose seed feels so different than that of the whole seeds. In
my vast experience with eating the seeds, and taking extracts, the trip that results is not as good. And I've taken the seeds more
than any other psychedelic, except LSD and marijuana. I find
them much more narcotic/sedative-like in nature and the effects
are really nothing like that which I get from EATING the seeds.
The fact that teas or other extracts feel very different from the
trip of the whole seed has also been noted by everyone I've shared
m.g. seed tea with, and is a comoon thing reported in trip reports.
So this is definitely not a phenomena that I am alone in feeling.
Many, many, many people IM or email me with morning glory seed
questions and most of them who have tried both have also noted
that extracts are not as psychedelic and nowhere near as potent as
eating the whole seeds.
The seeds do cause nausea and vomiting (as many other psychedelics like ayahuasca, mescaline, ibogaine, etc.) but a purge, I feel
great. Like I said, I think the seeds are one of the best
psychedelics, and I have tried quite a number of different
ones.
Extractions such as a simple morning glory "tea", or the more
complicated A/B extraction, will give you a mixture of different
LSA's than those found in the whole seeds. It is the combination
of all the ergoline alkaloids in the seeds that make you trip.
The main alkaloid is the mostly sedating LA-111, but many others
(up to a dozen or so) including d-lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide
(closest molecule to LSD found in nature), are known to occur in
the seeds. Together, they have a synergestic efffect and produce a
very different kind of experience from pure LA-111. It is
(in my opinion) a great trip. One of my favorites. Of course the trip from seeds is very different from LSD. But because it is
different than LSD does not mean it is not as good. I think they
are both very useful. Some of my most meaningful trips have been with natural lysergic acid amides.
Merck:
Quote
agroclavine: Soluble in ethanol, chloroform, pyridine, soluble in benzene and ether, very little water soluble. Natural branches exist in ergot fungus ergot bacteria (Claviceps purpurea (Fr.) Tulasne) parasitic grass in rye (Secale cereale L.) plants ovary formed by the sclerotia (LSD). Available chemical or biological synthesis in.
Chemist Peter Webster "sacred mushrooms of the goddess":
Quote
chanoclavine is almost totally insoluble in water.
Here is what Wasson had to say about the preparation:
Quote
In recent years a number of experimenters have taken the Rives seeds with no effects, and this has led one of them to suggest that the reputation of ololiuhqui is due wholly to auto-suggestion? These negative results may be explained by inadequate preparation. The Indians grind the seeds on the rnetate (grinding stone) until they are reduced to flour. Then the flour is soaked in cold water, and after a short time the liquor is passed through a cloth strainer and drunk. If taken whole, the seeds give no result, or even if they are cracked. They must be ground to flour and then the flour soaked briefly in water. Perhaps those who took the seeds without results did not grind them, or did not grind them fine enough, and did not soak the resulting flour. The chemistry of the seeds seems not to vary from region to region, and seeds grown in the Antilles and in Europe are as potent as those grown in Oaxaca. I have taken the black seeds twice in my home in New York, and their potency is undeniable.
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Torsten:
Quote
the problems with various researchers not being able to get effects from various potent Convolvulaceae can in most cases be tracked down to two issues:
1) seed was old
2) the extraction method allowed oxidation
Point one has been shown time and time again with Rivea seeds, which are simply no longer active after a few weeks/months. I have nibbled both fresh Rivea and Ipomoea seeds straight off the vine and got mild effects even from just a few seeds, however never had any decent effects from stored seed.
Point two is probably the greater variable. I had a friend in germany who spend literally hundreds of kilos of HBWR to try and work out a way to make a stable extract. He found out the hard way that any applications of heat or any exposure of the extract to air would render it useless (he was trying to make a dry powder extract for encapsulating). In the end he settled on an alcoholic extract as this was one of the few forms that stayed potent. Plain water extracts often lose the potency in a matter of hours to days. Saliva extracts almost universally fail.
One important aspect of extraction seems to be particle size. Fine powders are much more productive than chewed seeds. This is reinforced by the fact that swallowing the (5 minutes) chewed seeds will provide more than 50% of the potency.
Extracts have since been made in europe and marketed there, but they employ full extraction under the same conditions as listed in the literature for LSD production and the conversion to the tartrate before marketing. The tartrates of Lysergic compounds are well known to be stable while most other salts aren't. Surely this might apply to calystegines as well, but that would be another great coincidence.
I do not believe the calystegines are responsible for the main effect. They may well be responsible for the after effects or underlying effects, and also for the effects of really old seeds. All of these effects are very similar, while quite different from LSD. Then again, lysergic acid amide (singular!) effects are also more of the sedating nature rather than visionary. I think we will find the main active to be an amide of lysergic acid, but not lysergic acid amide itself.
Are the calystegines in Stipa robusta? cos I've had good effects from Stipa and they were very much like relatively fresh woodrose seeds.
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Quote
Spiritual Ecstasy
LSA & 2C-E
by klanonymous
DOSE: T+ 0:00 oral LSA
T+ 1:45 20 mg 2C-E
BODY WEIGHT: 170 lb
Spiritual Ecstasy
I've taken LSA+2C-E once before and it was a great trip, but this second trip was far more intense and infinitely more satisfying. Since LSA has such a long come-up, I dosed in the sequence shown below hoping to get the two peaks to coincide.
T+0:00 5-HTP 200mg (oral), LSA 210mg (~12.5 seeds) (oral)
T+1:45 2C-E 20mg, LSA 90mg (~5 seeds)
On my previous LSA+2C-E experience, I came to terms with the fact that I pursue psychedelic states hoping to achieve something spiritually fulfilling and not merely entertaining. Though I've had many very revealing trips before, there has never been that great ecstatic and blissful moment of epiphany and understanding I have so longed after. After this experience, I realized, perhaps the whole of my life experience, encompassing all sober and psychedelic states, may have been the Universe conspiring and preparing me for this particular inward journey-- a perfect moment in time.
The night began around 8pm, when two very good friends arrived at the house, one of whom would be partaking in what I can only hope was a similar journey. The other, my roommate, chose to remain sober on the occasion, but hopes to replicate a similar trip soon.
As we waited for the first dose to begin to come on, we listened to music, sat around, and soaked in the last bit of sobriety we thought we would have over the next several hours. To both of our surprise, the sober character of our minds remained minimally altered throughout our trip, only adding to the beauty and complexity of our experiences.
Up to the point that we took our second dosing (T+1:45), we had both failed to experience the visuals normally associated with these types of psychoactives, however, we were both in agreement that we were experiencing a strong, but not super natural, euphoria and an intense freedom of both thought and experience. Communication among all three of us was surprisingly fluid, uninterrupted, and uninhibited. We were also struck with those general feelings of beauty, and were basking in the intense awe that only Life inspires.
Within 20 minutes of our second dosing, we noticed a very intense and speedy climb to the plateau we would soon enjoy for several hours. The words I've found most worthy to describe this climatic plateau of my life is Spiritual Ecstasy. I don't consider myself an overly spiritual guy, but I can think of no other words to fit the infinite ecstasy that followed.
We had just gotten back from a short walk around the block where we had smoked several cigarettes while enjoying the fresh air, if you'll forgive such an obvious paradox. While we were out in cold, my sober friend had apparently also been conspiring with the Universe to make the Perfect musical selection for our return. We came back into the warmth to be greeted by the sonic vibrations of 'Souvlaki Space Station' by Slowdrive. (An album and song that I now must insist you buy, borrow, or steal.)
Nearly as soon as I had taken off my coat, scarf, and hat, I found my self writhing on the carpeted floor as wave after wave of ecstatic joy, love, and human experience washed over me. With eyes open or closed, I saw the tapestries of human experience and emotion unfurl and expand over every element of my consciousness, every ugly and beautiful thing, and every perfect thing in between. All internal resistance had been dissolved, my mind had become a superconductor, a master conduit, to all of existence. If I have ever lived an enlightened moment, this was surely it.
This state continued for several hours before beginning to wane. I was at a moment concerned to lose this moment of continuous beauty and perfection, but soon realized that the knowledge and memory of it's existence alone would persist for a life time.
It is possible that this experience was unique to this moment in space and time, but even so, I will remain forever grateful to have at once quelled the currents of life, peered across the great blue divide, and seen even a glimpse of the golden shore that one can only hope awaits us all.
Exp Year: 2007 ID: 60244
Gender: Male
Added: Feb 28, 2007 Views: 12253
8)e best, most informative journal of events I have ever seen 
