Author Topic: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine  (Read 266 times)

bubble

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from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« on: July 10, 2012, 09:49:54 PM »
I tried to find a way to extract morphine and codeine nearly in it's pure form. So here is my extraction process which is build on simple a/b extraction which is used on opium to extract morphine.

I hope that it is okay that i made a new topic for it because i didn't want to resurrect an old topic. Also the reference is this extraction http://opioids.com/jh/index.html so i hope everything is right.


the extraction:


I would use 2 liter of water to extract 250g pulverised poppy pods. This solution will be acidified with hydrochloric acid to pH 2-3. Then it has to get stirred over night. So this should make all the alkaloids to their salt form, which dissolve in the water. After this it has to be filtered several times to get all the plant material out of the solution.

Now the whole filtrate has to get basified to a pH of 8-9 because in a basic medium the alkaloids are much more stable against high temperatures than in a sour medium. Also the pH is not high enough to deprotonate the Morphine alkaloid. Now nearly 90-95% of the solution can be evaporated and must be stirred at max. 80°C with a stream of dry air over it to evaporate faster. This stream can be made by a fan.

After the most evaporated the solution has to get acidified again to a pH of 2-3 to get all the alkaloids back in solution. Now the solution should stay in the fridge over night. A lot of grey/brown sludge will appear and it has to be filtered off. This sludge contains oils, resins and so on. This sludge can washed with a few ml of acidified water to wash the remaining alkaloids out of the sludge.

Now there should be a concentrated solution of opiates with some impurities in there but not as much as the beginning solution. I would now try to extract the impurities with some petrolether to get a cleaner solution. So the solution has to be washed 3-5 times with 1/5 of the volume of the solution of petrolether and get seperated with a seperation funnel. Now it has to be washed 2-3 times with the same volume of DCM. This cleaning process is important because I supposed  to extract at the end the codeine out of this solution with some DCM. But now at first I would bring the pH to 9-10(exactly 9,1 to get the morphine into the free base) and let it stand again over night in the fridge to let the morphine and some of the codeine precipitate. There should be a precipitate which can be filtered off. This precipitate will be air dried and than I want to seperate the codeine from morphine. So I would put the dry powder in some DCM which should dissolve the codeine but not the morphine. After 1/2 hour I would filter off the morphine which has to be dried again to get the crude morphine base and let the DCM evaporate to get the crude codeine base.

From the mother solution where the morphine was filtered off i would wash it several times with DCM to get all of the codeine out of it. This DCM would evaporate also and the residue would be added to the crude codeine base.

Now to purify the morphine base it has to be dissolved in some hot isopropanol to get a saturated solution. Now it has to be added half of the volume of petrolether to shrink the solubility of the morphine base. After the addition there should be some precipitate. Again half of the volume of petrolether should be added and the solution stay again in the fridge to cool down until everything is precipitated. This purifying process can be made several times.


to purify the codeine base it has to be dissolved in some dry DCM again and then some HCl gas is bubbled through it to precipitate the codeine hydrochloride.

Now I want to know if you have some clues or hints or maybe a better idea to extract or to purify it. Also I have a few questions because I read that codeine builds a hemihydrate in water which is soluble in water. So I asked myself if I basify the water and the morphine and codeine precipitate out would there be a chance that the codeine which wants to precipitate builds up a hemihydrate which brings it back in the solution. And if it is so will DCM extract it or not? and what if not? Also are 250g poppy pods out of a moderate climate enough to get some morphine and codeine out of it or should I try a larger amount?


Sorry if my english is bad, it's not my mother language. I hope that it is understandable.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 10:37:13 PM by bubble »

jon

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2012, 12:23:18 AM »
dude you have'nt a clue

POSEIDON

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2012, 03:41:38 AM »
read this ,
The chemists are a strange class of mortals, impelled by an almost insane impulse to seek their pleasures amid smoke and vapour, soot and flame, poisons and poverty; yet among all these evils I seem to live so sweetly that may I die if I were to change places with the Persian king.
— Johann Joachim

bubble

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2012, 07:58:35 AM »
thanks to poseidon for the pdf and jon instead of saying that i haven't a clue you could say why i haven't a clue. that would be very helpful.

jon

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
here's a tip never boil a basic solution of alkaloids your morphine gets oxidized if the ph is'nt 4 or 3.
your idea would have had you punching walls.
and don't do all those manipulations.
you don't have enough to mess with you'll lose mechanical loss.
i already responded to your pm and i got some experience with this.
always keep below 80C prefereably 60-70C use the convection fan and a double boiler the fan will keep it below 80C
i know these things.

bubble

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2012, 06:07:36 PM »
thanks jon. The information with the pH helped me a lot and i will post some results in the following week.

jon

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 09:49:10 AM »
i forgot to mention use a metal bowl on the db setup so the metal will cool faster as the fan blows over it.
also its faster because of the swirling air in the bowl accellerating as oppose to a flat pyrex dish.

Coleman_Stryker

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 08:32:46 AM »
ok, im trying to isolate morphine out of poppies too.

but it wont work, somethings flawed here.
ok, this is how i tried it. around 200g poppy pods, cut into tiny pieces, boiled in about 0,7l water with 1ml concentrated muriatic acid added to it.
then poured through cloth, so no crude pieces get into the solution. second flush, about 0,3l water.

the "tea" goes into the freezer, and as it has cooled ive added red cabbage juice and ammonia-solution so the ph is around 9-10, or maybe higher.
after about 3 hours theres nothing changed. when looking closely, i can see some tiny crystals, but when i filtered them out, they didnt dissolve in concentrated muriatic acid so i guess it was wax from the cuticula. though i tried to dissolve the morphine base in gasoline, but i was told it wouldnt work because its unsoluable in gas.
but shouldnt the tiny stuff dissolve in the gasoline, if its really wax?

im totally out of creativity here.

EDIT:
ive read the document posted above, and i think i ll go with the classic method of using calcium chloride for precipitating the unwanted stuff.
but still that wont explain why nothing precipitated when i added ammonia.... could it simply be that there wasnt enough morphine contained? the tea was orally active.

oh btw those captchas are hard as fuck.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 08:52:00 AM by Coleman_Stryker »

bubble

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »
so i want to update my way. I've extracted 400g of poppy pod powder with nearly 4 liter of Water at a pH of 2-3. After extracting the whole shit i filtered it through some nylon socks. I don't know how they called in english. Then I evaporated it to nearly 500-600ml and added 100ml of petrolether. I thought this would extract some kind of resins and wax and the shit. After this a dark clear phase went to the bottom of my solution. I thought what the fuck is that? petrolether should be at the top. Then I divided it from the solution and thought it was crap, so i wanted to dispose it but i had it in a 100ml beaker and it stand on my balcony for a few days. It smelt really like petrolether.

Then i evaporated the 500-600ml of aqueous opium solution and got nearly 100-200g of a putty with the consistence of opium. Again i tried to extract the bad wax and resins with petrolether and some acetone but it got not much out of it. This putty is now drying for several days or weeks on my balcony.

After a few days i realized that the divided clear phase didn't smell like petrolether. So i thought it would be water which seperated. So i knew that morphine and codeine hydrochloride is good soluble in water with 1:25 and 1:30 i filtered it and got a really clear dark yellow solution. After I added the equal amount of acetone (where the solubility of the hydrochloride salts are 1:>1000) a lot of white crystalline powder seperated. This will be a lot of organic opioid salts and some anorganic salts like NaCl or something. In a few days i want to filter the precipitate off the solution and then dissolve the filtercake in some water and make it basic with ammonia to ph 9 to divide the morphine base from the whole mix.

Coleman_Stryker i hope this will help you

And yeah you are right that the crude morphine base isn't soluble in unpolar solvents.

I have here a table with the solubility of the base and the hydrochloride

Solubility of codeine:
free base: 1+120 (water), 1+20 (water @100°C), 1+2 (ethanol), 1+25 (acetone), 1+20 (diethylether), 1+5 (DCM
Hydrochloride: 1+30 (water), 1+1 (water @100°C, 1+100 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+500 (DCM)
Phosphate: 1+4 (water), 1 + 0,5 (water @100°C), 1+450 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+>1000 (DCM)

Solubility of morphine:
free base: 1+>1000 (water), 1+90 (ethanol), 1+600 (acetone), 1+>1000(diethylether), no value given (DCM)
Hydrochloride: 1+25 (water), 1+50 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+>1000(DCM)
all values by weight

This helped me a lot. Maybee it would help you also.

That nothing precipitate after you add ammonia solution is maybee that the morphine base has a consistence of some white "goo" which can also really hard to see in some unclear solution. If I were you i would concentrate the tea, put it in the freezer, filter the waxes and resins of which precipitate after cooling the concentration down and then i would add ammonia to get the morphine base or add acetone to precipitate the hydrochloride salts.

Yeah after a few posts the captchas will go away.

POSEIDON

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 12:28:23 PM »
read this two basic text books about basic alkaloids chemistry

The plant alkaloids / by Thomas Anderson Henry. ... . Henry, Thomas Anderson, 1873-1958
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b4074080

The technology and chemistry of alkaloids / by Frank ... . Hamerslag, Frank E.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015069112228

The chemists are a strange class of mortals, impelled by an almost insane impulse to seek their pleasures amid smoke and vapour, soot and flame, poisons and poverty; yet among all these evils I seem to live so sweetly that may I die if I were to change places with the Persian king.
— Johann Joachim

Coleman_Stryker

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 12:40:18 PM »
ok, ive tried around some more....

yesterday this is the ammount i used:



1.cut the poppies as if i were trying to collect opium, put em in 400ml h2o with about 1,5ml of 33-36% HCl.
2. boil for about 30 minutes, decant into PET-bottle (i have almost no flasks and stuff left, used to be more)
3. let it cool
4. at about room temperature i started adding NaOH-solution, i tested for the pH with one of those aquaristic-kits (not very accurate imo), stopped adding NaOH at around pH 9
5. after five hours i filtered it, through a tea bag, since those coffee-filters arent good for shit (sadly, nothing left from my past chemistry attempts). the tea was very hazy, but i thought i saw some particles at the bottom
the filter collected something, as it went on slower the more tea ive put through it. but as im drying the filter now, theres virtually nothing in it, but it is colored brown now.

im gonna soak it in diluted HCl and evaporate the solution after some time to see whats left.
but somethings wrong here, there HAS to be enough alkaloid-material in the pods, they give me a nice buzz orally, and as we know you need triple the amount per os.
i guess there are at least 40-50mgs morphine in there. or is the alkaloid actually "the haze" i cant separate by filtering? im really sorry as some questions may sound stupid to you, but ive got no practical experience on this area (ask me about fireworks and its all different ;) ).

i really want to get this done, orally is a waste...

things to do:
-get more accurate ph-strips (guess the area where morphine base precipitates is quite narrow...)
-get out the alkaloids via acetone, even if they may be "polluted" with NaCl.

EDIT:

thats what the filter looks like.....



EDIT2:

ok,ended up with some shitty goo, far from what id call a hydrochloride.
going for acetone-method now- after adding more HCl the tea gets clearer, much clearer. so i guess the base was just SO fine precipitated that it went through the filter.
anyway, if it stays this fine i dont know jack how to get it out of the liquid.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 01:40:35 PM by Coleman_Stryker »

bubble

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Re: from poppy pods to morphine and codeine
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2012, 08:18:16 PM »
you have the same tastatur like me xD

To get the crude morphine base, you could let it precipitate over night,

The amount of morphine in 17 pods is not enough in my opinion. i am cutting also in this moment some poppy pods in tiny pieces which i would cover with water at the ph of 3 and then i will filter the shit out of it. At first i will filter it through some nylon socks if you know what i mean and then i will filter it through some tiny mesh coffee metal sieve with a mesh size of 20-50µm and after this through some lab ware filter with a mesh size of 4-7µm. The way with acetone is good to precipitate the alkaloid hydrochloride mix. You can also wash your filter paper in some isopropanol or methanol or ethanol and then you could add some petrolether if it is ethanol or isopropanol till the base is precipitating. If it is methanol add some diethyl ether.

It's really interesting that you are well known in pyrotechnics. I have also a lot of knowledge in this topic, so write me a pm.


I hope my english is understandable.

with best regards
bubble