Author Topic: Benzene  (Read 153 times)

Amphetamine Chemist

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Benzene
« on: August 11, 2009, 10:47:05 AM »
How does one go about making benzene? Easy, purchase some Sodium Benzoate, this stuff is so incredibly cheap where i come from, you can buy it for under 50 cent's a kilo. About 150 grams of Sodium Benzoate mixed with 75 grams of Sodium Hydroxide will yield about 100ml's of Benzene, under an ideal distillation, if i am correct, i believe that would be about the end result from those corresponding ingredient numbers. It may be a little more or less, but somewhere around there.

There are other ways to make Benzene, but personally i do not see how they are worthwile since this method is so easy and cheap.

Thanks.
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Alchemist

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2009, 01:26:01 PM »
Where do you order the Sodium Benzonate from? I like that price! Thanks, the Alchemist.....

Amphetamine Chemist

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 01:35:51 PM »
Well you can import it for that price but there is no need. Sorry, i just checked, it's $2.50 a kg here, so $5 for a 2kg bag, that's still nuts! Considering 500ml of Benzene is about $40 from my chemical supplier, i'd be insane not to make it!!

Food supply stores, people use Sodium Benzoate as a preservative for liquid beverages, so it's easily available from those places. And in any major city you will find a plentiful amount of such stores and warehouses who will sell it to you. If your lucky, you get nice sales people, they sell it to me without hesitation, just tell them that you want it for a whistle mix for fireworks if they ask why... That's what i do.

Thanks.
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Sedit

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 01:54:11 PM »
Just a side note for those who are not a big fan of ordering things, Toluene or Xylene could more then likely be oxidised to there carboxylate form and converted to benzene thru the same means at that point. Im sure there are a mass of oxidisers that could be used here as well making it a very over the counter means of getting benzene.

What is the other product of the decomposition other then benzene anyway?
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Amphetamine Chemist

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2009, 02:10:03 PM »
I Believe biphenyl in a small amount. Nothing major, most of the product is pure benzene, maybe 1 or 2% will be biphenyl, which can easily be removed by redistilling the distillate.

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- AmphChem.

Sedit

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2009, 02:38:29 PM »
Na Im woundering the form the Carboxylic acid takes after being taken off. Is it being driven off as CO2 or is it forming a carboxylate salt.
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Douchermann

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 03:34:12 PM »
Sodium carbonate is the end product. Benzene from toluene is not a very scaleable route. The permanganate oxidation takes much solvent - near a couple 1000% of the toluene. Ampchem, I'm sure you could find cheaper benzene than that. Check for 8 to 9 bucks for 500ml

Amphetamine Chemist

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 06:10:29 PM »
If i could find Benzene that cheap then i certainly would not be making it.   ;D What kind of places are we talking about Douchermann?? That sell it that cheap??

Thanks.
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2bfrank

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 04:03:52 AM »
EXP benzene generators, advice here please.

, your making this sound EAZY< and when I mentioned this to a friend who told me that he finds it somewhat difficult, I think it is his set up, so anylway, he adds the NaBzoate with the Na OH and places this in a tin, about  a 400ml tin, that has a copper pipw in lid ( and becomes 100% airtight)and this pipe is about sau 400mm long and runs through a makeshipt pvc pipe about 3.5 inch wide and 3 foot long, that hs water entering leaving, and the problem is all he has is 1 bunson burner, a reasonably strong one, but everything is airtight, hell get a few drops, but it appears that the gaseous benzene is not being easily reconverted into solution, so its all go up in air.. WOUld you mind describing your friend who knows his neighbours gardener who does this succesfully, and any tips and I will pass it on to my friiend, who is a budding amateur chemist..

Id really appreciate some suggestion, as benzene is a very basic building block, and is requred for a number of interesting, preps my chem fireind is into. Id also be interesting in being one day being able to do this, and it is very useful in my interest in seeing if I can make various health products with limited reagants, and a somewhat mediocre amount of hardware..

THANKS IN advance,, pls

2b
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Vesp

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 04:13:25 AM »
This is useful if you haven't seen it already: http://www.sciencemadness.org/member_publications/benzene_production.pdf

Make sure the benzoate is well mixed with the hydroxide as well as making sure it is getting hot enough and for a long enough period to allow the benzene to form and leave in decent quantities.

Please describe the condenser a bit more. I think that could perhaps play a roll in the problem of not getting benzene.
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2bfrank

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 05:02:47 AM »
hey vesp,, the condenser is a long pvc tube that has the copper tubing from the tin, leading though the pvc tubing, and water, nice cold water is circulation.. becuase he doesn't want breakage, he rigged up this contraption. the pvc condenser is in actual 2 foot long, and apox, but close is 3.5 inch wide, he noticid that gasous benzene is basicaly drifting right through the condenser, and coming out as gas..

2b

Vesp

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 05:06:34 AM »
Add copper wool to the inside, this will increase surface area and hopefully allow more heat to be lost via conduction.
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2bfrank

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 05:10:41 AM »
anything else other than copper, any other metal would suffice, Stainless steel, cut up fine????

Vesp

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 05:12:36 AM »
It is about conduction, and probably surface area. A course steel wool would work as well, if the condenser is even the problem. It sounds like it should be condensing to me...
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2bfrank

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 05:22:55 AM »
its not, gaseous benzene is wafting out the end of the copper tube coming out the condenser.. Perhaps I need to test getting much cooler temp for condenser.. youve given me some ideas, and I can play around..

THANKYOU

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heisenberg

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 05:43:29 AM »
Using steel wool or the like will get crud in your distillate. If you use that to increase surface area, expect to have to redistill it.
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Vesp

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 05:53:54 AM »
You would have to distill it regardless. Look at the crude product on the sciencemadness publication I linked to above. It is very dirty. 
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heisenberg

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Re: Benzene
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2009, 06:10:26 AM »
You would have to distill it regardless. Look at the crude product on the sciencemadness publication I linked to above. It is very dirty. 

Wow, I hadn't taken a look yet. That's some very brown benzene.
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