Author Topic: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence  (Read 199 times)

phaseolus

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« on: February 11, 2013, 02:42:31 AM »
So far the best way I've found is the obvious one: combustion (thermal decomposition with oxygen). Methamphetamine hydrochloride combusts to form, unsurprisingly, "Carbon oxides, nitrogen oxides (NOx), Hydrogen chloride gas" [1] and water.

Pyrolysis (thermal decomposition without oxygen) produces amphetamine and dimethylamphetamine under 315 C [2]. At higher temperatures, a slew of different substances are formed such as allylbenzene, toluene, P2P to name the familiar ones. Pyrolysis can also isomerize d-MA to l-MA and l-A. The whole process can take a long time, in the neighborhood of 30 minutes.

Bleach turns MA into amphetamine [3] and N-chloro-MA [4]. Uncle Fester said that washing with bleach is adequate to "get rid of the evidence," but I don't see how it's any better than using soap or whatever given these facts.

[1] MSDS from Sigma-Aldrich
[2] Sato et al. "Analysis of the Pyrolysis Products of Methamphetamine". Journal of Analytical Toxicology, Vol. 28, November/December 2004
[3] Kidwell, David A., and Frederick P. Smith. "Susceptibility of PharmChek™ drugs of abuse patch to environmental contamination." Forensic science international 116.2 (2001): 89-106.
[4] Tadao, Nakayama, Matthew. "Chemical Interaction of Bleach and Methamphetamine: A Study of Degradation and Transformation Effects" (thesis). UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, DAVIS, 2011, 195 pages; 1493688. http://gradworks.umi.com/14/93/1493688.html

Doc B

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 07:30:09 PM »
Pffff well look I guess I'll take, it if it will make life easier for you.  ;D

Sydenhams chorea

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 08:38:09 AM »
What about Caro's acid?
It is perhaps the narcotic. Hyoscine affects certain people very oddly. One cannot be sure. Sometimes, these cases take strange forms. The victim becomes in a sense, 'mediumistic', a vehicle for all the intangible forces in operation around her.

Assyl Fartrate

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 09:04:49 AM »
Not a good idea. The bleach thing is bullshit - don't listen to Fester, he's a joke. It won't destroy the carbon skeleton even close to fast enough. You'll just land yourself felony destruction of evidence charges (as well as whatever other synonymous charges they can hit you with, say, a triple count of damaging evidence, destroying evidence, and concealing evidence, each 5 years to be served consecutively ;)). They can pick up very small traces of the stuff (part per trillion levels), so even if you lit off a perchlorate composition, you're still probably going to get hit. Anything to do with fire is a big no no. They can stick you with arson, even if it's your own house.

Best thing to do is to have it ready to flush. Keep a bucket of water by your toilet because they turn off your water before blowing down your door, so you really only get one flush. And besides - ever been in a raid? You wouldn't have time to flush more anyway before you're tackled, stun gunned, and your dog shot twelve times for playing dead. That bucket is just there to make sure that shit is gone - extra powerful flush. Soot all over the walls testing hot for drugs is sure to land destruction of evidence charges, whereas a toilet bowl testing hot could just mean you piss and shit a lot of unmetabolized drugs. If you're carrying weight on the road, and want to be able to get rid of it in a flash, just wait for soggy weather, and keep it dissolved in water. That way, if you see cherries and berries light up behind you, you can just slosh it out the window as you pull over, and it'll all wash away. Don't try to be clever with hiding spots, they know this game better than you do. If you're on foot, you could also dissolve it in vodka and just act drunk and dump it on the grass if confronted (for god's sake, dump on a porous surface only, you don't want to have to explain why shards are magically appearing on the sidewalk). Typical behavior of a drunkard that doesn't want a public intoxication charge, nothing noteworthy. Just be sure your breath smells like alcohol - pull a Paul Newman if you have to and use that vodka as mouthwash. Cops don't have many brain cells, but you don't want anything to seem off that might cause them to light up the two or three that survived the academy.

When destroying evidence, you must be discreet, or leave yourself plausible deniability, as you are committing another crime, this time right under their noses. A lot of people have gone down harder for felony destruction of evidence charges than they would've if they'd just thrown up their hands to fate.

Either way you need to decide in advance what your plan of action is - conceal everything as well as possible, which means it's impossible to get rid of, or be ready to dump at the first sign of alarm. If you second guess this decision at the last second, you'll find yourself in handcuffs.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 09:25:24 AM by Assyl Fartrate »
Someone Who Is Me

Mango

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 10:03:49 AM »
With certain drugs you need to keep carrier weight in mind. Dissolving something in vodka can change milligrams to ounces.




Tsathoggua

  • Autistic sociopath
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2013, 06:26:26 AM »
Piranha bath.

I wouldn't want to see the result of bleach oxidation. N-haloamines...remind you of anything?

too close to nitrogen mustards, they are haloalkylamines, anything other than fluorine, making for a possible leaving group is a possible blister agent and carcinogen candidate.

Ever had a mustard gas burn? they are no fucking fun.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Assyl Fartrate

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2013, 08:01:46 AM »
Heaving organics into a piranha bath is a task best reserved for the terminally ill - it's quite a show. ;)
Someone Who Is Me

Tsathoggua

  • Autistic sociopath
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2013, 08:50:05 AM »
It aint called piranha bath for nowt.

Organoperoxides are satan incarnate.

A mix of slowly added conc. sulfuric to KMnO4 in carbon tet would do it, Mn2O7 is a bugger of an unstable explosive, but formed slowly enough to oxidise a substrate as its formed works.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Assyl Fartrate

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2013, 09:28:51 AM »
It's not just the organic peroxides, it's the singlet oxygen - basically the most powerful oxidizer known (that you will ever encounter in the lab). Whatever you throw in there will react with explosive violence.

There's not much you can do to chemically destroy evidence if the cops want your ass, as mentioned earlier - there will be traces of your shit on the container, or from it vaporizing as it reacted and condensing on the walls - again they can detect ppt levels (part per trillion) these days. They know what KMnO4 is, they can prove you used it to destroy evidence, and that's a five year felony that's frequency sentenced in the higher end of that range.
Someone Who Is Me

Tsathoggua

  • Autistic sociopath
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2013, 02:06:56 PM »
Not the KMnO4, but as a slowly formed Mn2O7.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Assyl Fartrate

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2013, 03:20:37 PM »
There's going to be manganese residues, leftover sulfates and sulfuric acid - they'll know what you did.

Quote
These guys tested everything; they were quite literally analyzing the paint on the walls of my laboratory. Then they outlined possible synthetic routes based on their findings, and I must say they hit every fucking nail on the head. I was halfway hoping when I was hiding out overseas that they might not find anything. Not a fucking chance!

http://www.vice.com/read/criminal-chlorination-0000350-v19n9

The point is to destroy evidence, not to create more evidence of yet another crime. That's why you pitch it in a river or flush it down the toilet. ;)
Someone Who Is Me

zgoat65

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Degradation of methamphetamine, removal from existence
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2013, 03:55:42 PM »
Fact is, if they blow the door down, they already know more about you than you'd like.  Can't get a warrant without some form of damning evidence to show probable cause.  So........unless yer turning over a new leaf (meaning quitting the game altogether), then  they got you. 
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life