I think you are accurate.  The difference is noted by the uninformed calling various "tabs" either "speed" or "heroin" based (i can't even type that without laughing).  as stupid as it sounds, there are a large number of people who believe that XTC pills have heroin or speed in them.  in reality, one pill is mda and one is mdma.

MDMA is metabolized to MDA when you take it.

Never had MDA. But methylone and MDMA do not agree with my a-social autie nature. Being people-loved up doesn't play well. Just feels fake, forced and false. Un-natural and nasty.

Only empathogen Toady has ever liked, was AMT, which he used very successfully to cure himself of PTSD.

MDMA is metabolized to MDA when you take it.

If that were the case it would last as long as MDA, which it doesn't.

If you bought the MDMA it couldve been cut with MDA, or some leftover MDA was not cleaned out of the reaction if they started with MDA and then methylated it

In case there is any confusion on the matter, MDMA is most certainly metabolised to MDA, courtesy of CYP3A4, from where it can form the lovely a-Me-DA.

I never said it was completely metabolized to MDA. N dealkylation occurs so discussing the effects of MDA and MDMA separately doesn't make sense. I lack copy paste functions on this device so check PMID 15228154.

I never said it was completely metabolized to MDA. N dealkylation occurs so discussing the effects of MDA and MDMA separately doesn't make sense. I lack copy paste functions on this device so check PMID 15228154.

That's most certainly not true.  It issue here is kinetics.  Yes, MDMA is demethylated to MDA.  But how much of the MDMA has made it to the brain before this happens?  That's the more interesting question.   If you argument is true then we could say the same thing for methamphetamines.  I think any crackhead will tell you meth is most definitely different than amp.

Pop quiz: what is the primary active metabolite of heroin?  If you think it's morphine, you're dead wrong. The answer is 6-acetyl-morphine (or the 6-acetyl-3-glucuronidated derivative, which is actually more lipophilic).  Yes, the second acetyl does come off eventually, but not before the majority of the 6-acetyl derivative has already hit the brain.  Once again, the issue is kinetics.

What is certainly not true? It is partially metabolized to MDA which was my only point. You cant consider the affects of MDMA without considering MDA. That is all I said - which is from published literature.

I am not making an argument that can be true or false but stating a fact - the two substances are detectable in human serum following MDMA administration. I imagine the same actuallly does apply to MA. Why wouldn't it?

Why is this even causing contraversy?

Kinetics requires population studies to answer your question properly but it was exactly the kind of questions I think we should be looking at answering.

As for heroin... I know its 6 MAM that is the primary metabolite (as in first metabolite)... its used in drug testing as an indicator of heroin use for this purpose.

No worries mate

The plot thickens even further if you look at the stereochemistry... S(+) MDMA vs. R(-) MDMA... differences in the eudismic ratio of the stereoisomers isn't 1:1 and this would likely carry to the metabolites which has a bearing on both binding and neurotoxicity.

Check PMC81503