Author Topic: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?  (Read 392 times)

Agent Madhatter

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Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« on: August 26, 2009, 11:26:02 PM »
AFOAF has extracted LSA loads of times, though he always gets some sort of off brown/oily mixture. Its obviously not LA-111, ergine, LSA, Lysergic acid amide, whatever you want to call it.

So he wants to know the best way to extract the LAS in the purest form? To be able to snort/put in pills.

He was thinking something like... an acid to base extraction.

He just needs to know if the LSA will convert into a salt/freebase with exposed to different pH's and what solvents will extract it, without extracting the other chemicals/fats/oils/poisons.

Does anyone know the information of the affects of pH change on LSA? Or a good method to extract LSA crystal?

He knows some chemistry, but he isn't that experienced.

rocketman

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 11:29:57 PM »
I've seen some on like erowid, I think diethyl ether or petroleum ether are usually used. Methanol works well. Ethanol might be possible. Have you tried LSA? It's nothing special. Maybe minor perception changes, but mostly just something to make you extremely TIRED. Good bit of dehydration and nausea. But I suppose you're just doing it for the chemistry anyways...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 11:42:02 PM by rocketman »

Vesp

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 11:39:15 PM »
Use HBWR, and UTFSE.
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Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 11:44:32 PM »
Hes tried it many times and loves it. But erowid has nothing. He has tried every method on there.

He needs crystals.... =(


Vesp

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 12:00:49 AM »
What is it you have tried?
Have you found the concentrations of LSA and figured how many mgs of LSA there is going to be in pounds of morning glory seeds?
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Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 12:32:26 AM »
He did some simple math, nothing extensive and will be trying some experimental test with 500 seeds. He won't be expecting much. If anything.

The final test when he has a method will be with a pound of seeds. Or 11,000 seeds. So he is expecting ATLEAST 50mg of Ergine.

Naf1

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 01:50:07 AM »
You just posted a thread on diethylamine, so you would have to blind not to see where this is going. If you want a sample clean enough to do what you want to do (cyrstals as you put it). You are going to have to go here http://www.chem.ubc.ca/courseware/121/tutorials/exp3A/columnchrom/ scroll down to the technique part and watch the technique tutorial slideshow, you will need that technique with a bigger column though, obviously first you would make a crude extract the brown oily mixture you talk of but as clean as you can get it then run it through a column. If you had access to gas, flash chromatography through a suitably sized column would get through the sample in no time. You may want to run a sample run through first with UV light on it, to show you where your bands are. Then in future you will know where the good stuff comes out.

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 03:09:14 AM »
Where would I get the supplies for chromatography? I've never done that before.

Douchermann

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 05:20:40 AM »
Agent madhatter, we can't spoon feed you everything you need.  You'll find plenty of info on column, TLC and various other methods of chromatography through a simple search of google.  The equipment can be found in the same manner.  As suggested by previous members, I'd like to recommend Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, as opposed to morning glory seeds.  Much cheaper per mg of desired amine.  I actually found a gas chromatography unit at my local American science and surplus.  Sadly the machine was trashed, but it was only 10 bucks.  If I felt like spending 10 bucks, I could have fixed with possibly another 10 bucks.  Oh well.

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 03:05:47 PM »
THank you for the reply. I'm looking into HBWR but I'm not sure of the other alkoilds in the seeds.
Also, I'm not looking to be spoonfed. I've done hour of research, and intact know what I need for chromatgrahpy I just do not know where to get it. I'm asking for a place (ie: eBay, www.buysupplies.com) you know?

I'm also not sure what would be better slica or alumnin(sp)?

Anyways, thanks, I'll have to look into HBWR.

Also does anyone know if the amides will convert into a salt or a freebase at a certain pH? I litterally have no clue where I could find this information. Other than an org text book, which I rather no have to bust my old books out and spend an hour trying to find that info.

Douchermann

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 06:18:14 PM »
It forms a hydrate.  Being a carboxylic acid, it also forms salts of various bases.  pH values? I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet it follows the typical pH range for bases vs acids.  Above 7 and it forms a salt, below 7 and it stays it's acid form. For chromatography supplies, like I said, search google real quick.  Might I also suggest places like www.sciencelab.com, or www.unitedglasstech.com

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 09:58:22 PM »
Where would I find the information about the solubility of salts and acids for the amide?

Sedit

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 10:09:02 PM »
Google
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2009, 10:35:20 PM »
Look dude. I don't know if you think I'm 12 or just a fucking idiot but I know how to use google. I'VE LOOKED IN GOOGLE. I don't know the extact terms or names of what I'm looking for, so that may be why my results arnt what I want. But I don't see your problem with giving me a source to read into?

Your not spoonfeeding me, and your giving me a way to research on my own. It's quite annoying when you assume I'm an idiot and can't use google. It's not google it's my lack of proper terms for what I'm looking up. 

Sedit

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2009, 10:53:24 PM »
Really? Because now I am starting to think your a fucking idiot because a google search for Lysergic acid amide and solubility pulled up a shitload of hits and a few of them look pretty useful. Refinement of that search could very well give you the exact data charts your looking for. If your having problems look for more scientific sites instead of drug synthesis websites because 9 times out of 10 there is no real data on them.

I was giving you a way to research on your own, I said google and you got ignorent, WTF.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2009, 11:04:29 PM »
I didn't get ignorant. I was looking more on google and I was searching "Carboxylic acid amide" and according to a site this came up.

"The solubilities of amides and esters are roughly comparable. Typically amides are less soluble than comparable amines and carboxylic acids since these compounds can both donate and accept hydrogen bonds. Tertiary amides, with the important exception of N,N-dimethylformamide, exhibit low solubility in water."

So, this makes me believe that a compound mixture of LSA and other alkaloids, (mainly Amines and carboxylic acids if there are any in Morning glories or HBWR) extracted using cold water would pull out the bad chemicals leaving me with LSA and any other amides.

Do you think this might work? I'll also look into what you searched. I was simply pointing out sir, that saying 'Google' doesn't help me much.

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2009, 11:29:15 PM »
Also, from a powerpoint I have from Berkley I've found out that Salts of carboxylic acids are more soluble in H2O than the freebase form, so with this I assume making the mixture of LSA compounds more acidic would mean that LSA would be almost insoluble in Water. While the other chemicals would be less soluble but still somewhat soluble. So with this theory, say dropping the pH to 2, using a 14% HCL solution would increase insolubility for LSA and also remove the alkaloids? At that point, I filter off the HCL solution/Alkaloids and dry the left over lysergic acid amide with Ethanol and MgSO4?

Possible?

v16

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2009, 11:43:32 PM »
i think you need to take some intro chemistry classes.  It wold help you alot.  Or at least get a good text or two


Sedit

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2009, 11:46:39 PM »
Google Helps alot with a little patiants to seperate the wheat from the shaft sadly I agree in recent years there is alot more shaft when it comes to search engines. In this case that may not be needed. Lysergic acid derivitives have been studied by legit science for quite some time and all the information on solubility will be out there somewhere. Sites such as Erowid and rhodiums exist because of folks like you and me searching our little fingers to the bone to present the information in a well formated way so that it will be easy for all to understand

IIRC they are soluble to some extent in water so best to research some more before having at it. Always save every phase until your sure your baby isn't being chucked out with the bath water.

Many of the better resources you will find may require access but never fear because some members can retrieve them if you ask nicely in the proper threed in the reference section.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Agent Madhatter

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Re: Whats the best way to extract PURE LSA from Morning glories?
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 02:26:10 AM »
Well as for references, I have no clue what to do. I can't even read most of those. I will not attempt to say I have a good background in chemistry.

I dropped out of college during the first semester, so I have half a semester of chemistry 101. Plus what little I learn during highschool. But I've come a long way from researching online. I know its slightly soluble which I why I proposed dropping the pH more than the natural pH the acid makes it. That way it won't be dissolved as much, also using cold water would help get less of the LSA out. Right?

This is all theory, I would love it if someone could correct me.