Author Topic: Lab Accidents  (Read 2279 times)

lugh

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #120 on: April 02, 2011, 11:48:45 AM »
Quote
"similar principle to the oldschool miner's lamps for detecting flammable gas buildups within coal mines."

What is that?

This is the thread:

Chemicals & Equipment     
Thread:     
   

    Posts 1 - 10 of 10           Subject: Electric Motor Explosion Proofing Modification         
   

         
            lugh
(Moderator)
07-12-02 19:19
No 331864
                      Electric Motor Explosion Proofing Modification
(Rated as: excellent)       

From Ind Eng Chem  675 (1926):

To prevent sparks from the motor igniting volatile solvent fumes, the principle of the Davy lamp was applied. The air holes at the brushes were covered with 50 mesh copper gauze, welded on. The motor was then run free and under load in explosive mixtures of benzene, gasoline vapor and natural gas. No explosions occured, although the brushes were sparking badly. Under similar conditions the same unprotected motor invariably detonated the gas mixtures. It should be noted that this modification gives no protection from the improbable event of a spark between the shaft and bearings, but this is a rare occurance.

SWIL would test this in a small test chamber before trying it with diethyl ether or hydrogen laugh SWIL sees no reason brazing couldn't be used to attach the mesh either smile     
         
 
         
            MescalToad
(Stranger)
07-13-02 03:26
No 331997
                      j3al7o82       

Good luck!     
         
 
         
            Fully_Auto
(Hive Bee)
07-19-02 16:54
No 334718
                      ?         

Can someone please explain why adding copper mesh to the open spaces on a motor will prevent it from detonating explosive gasses even though sparks are still forming.

I looked up Davy lamp on google but I still don't understand. Is the copper just absorbing and displacing the heat?  Why won’t an electrical spark ignite the gasses present?
     
         
 
         
            goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
07-19-02 17:00
No 334723
                      heat absorption       

the copper mesh absorbs the heat out of the electrical sparks and prevents the gasses that are present from hitting their autoignition temperature.  A davy lamp won't work in the presence of vapors such as gasoline that are already at their autoignition temperature normally.  I doubt it would work for something like hydrogen or methane either.
All paths are the same: they lead nowhere     
         
 
         
            Fully_Auto
(Hive Bee)
07-19-02 17:23
No 334738
                      Thanks goiterjoe       

That's what I assumed.

Does the motor have to be grounded in order for this to work?
     
         
 
         
            goiterjoe
(Title on BackOrder)
07-19-02 17:33
No 334748
                      corrections             

apparently this will work fine for hydrogen and methane, since they have ignition temperatures well above ambient temperatures.  why wouldn't you want to use a grounded motor?  It shouldn't make any difference unless you have a problem with voltage fluctuation on the utility lines that service your house, like from lightning strikes or conductor faults.
All paths are the same: they lead nowhere     
         
 
         
            lugh
(Moderator)
07-19-02 17:47
No 334760
                      Davy Lamp             

The Davy lamp was invented for using in coal mines to protect the miners from the ingition of firedamp smile The articles states it was tested in natural gas, also known as methane or firedamp, so that's not an issue. It appears it would be okay to use around diethyl ether as well, see:

http://www.physics.purdue.edu/reports/demo/heat/Ht-12.html


http://tfk.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0842924.html

The Davy lamp is based upon the principle that to be ignited a substance must first be heated to its kindling temperature and that if such heating is prevented combustion will not occur. The flame in the lamp is surrounded by a metal-gauze screen that distributes the heat over a large area so that the maximum temperature of the screen is below the ignition temperature of the flammable gas mixture (e.g., firedamp).

     
         
 
         
            Fully_Auto
(Hive Bee)
07-19-02 18:13
No 334776
                      Very interesting         

Who ever invented this spent way to much time hanging out with his lampsmile

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my ramblings. smile     
         
 
         
            platcat
(Stranger)
07-21-02 17:49
No 335550
                      davy lamp ?             

Is swip to understand the exxxxpensive equipment he was pricing can be substituted with a 20" window fan
which has the motor housing blanketed in copper gauze?? Is the brazing/welding done for a reason or can swip use nylon tie straps?If nessessary swip will solder to keep heat at minimum. Swip  is dreaming of a visit to mart mart for some scrubbing pads. If he gets the right answer.lol. the copper kind that is!! that will solve another pricy problem. Good work Bee'ssmile
"The crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe"FZ
Are we there yet?     
         
 
         
            lugh
(Moderator)
07-21-02 19:37
No 335577
                      50 mesh             

You need to use 50 mesh copper gauze, that's not going to be real cheap, but it would allow you to use such a fan more safely if you follow the directions exactly. Copper scrubbing pads are not a suitable substitute, forget about the zip ties also frown


which was found at the end of the attached file  8)
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

psychexplorer

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #121 on: April 02, 2011, 12:59:36 PM »
"similar principle to the oldschool miner's lamps for detecting flammable gas buildups within coal mines."

What is that?

Old miners' lamps, known as Davy lamps consisted of a properly-sized wire mesh surrounding an open flame. Prior to the invention of the Davy lamp, many miners died when open flames ignited underground pockets of methane gas.

The Davy lamp allows miners to work safely because of its mesh. The mesh surrounding the open flame is large enough for light to pass out and flammable gas to pass in, but small enough to prevent any flame from gas ignition to pass out. The wire mesh acts to absorb the heat of combustion from flammable gases being burnt in the presence of open flame, without causing a gas ignition which can spread to the rest of the mine.

Davy lamps have been obsolete in mines since the advent of the battery powered electric lamp, but they occasionally find use in other applications where flammable gas must be slowly burnt off.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2011, 09:09:06 PM »
Davy lamps, thats the bugger! I couldn't remember the name. The thing was on the tip of my tongue, but wouldn't come out.

(I wondered by my lips were burning)
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antibody2

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #123 on: April 21, 2011, 12:31:21 AM »
All of AB2s lab accidents happened when he was messed up

1. Came home at 3pm on St Patricks day, smashed. Decide to vacuum isomerize 4l of safrole, in an great big Erlenmeyer. That lasted about 1 minute until the flask imploded and guess what? 4l of safrole all over everything. It took WEEKS to get rid of the smell. This was back in the day when you could order the stuff off the internet locally with no hassle.

2. Tripping on 2CB, decide to go in the lab and fuck around, don't ask why. End up spilling 5 grams of 2CB dissolved in HOAc all down the front of myself (not wearing a shirt) Immediately start thinking about the steep dose/response curve with this stuff and go into a 4 bell  panic thinking that I had OD'd and that the stuff would get me transdermally. You never saw anyone tear off the clothes and hit the shower so fast. I ended up destroying my lab during that trip. Safe to say it was  BAD trip. Started dumping all the chems down the sink, but when I dumped all the KMO4 down the drain it reacted with something else I had dumped down the drain earlier and a fucking GEYSER erupted out of the sink, and out of the manhole on the street outside. BIG MISTAKE.

akcom

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2011, 01:50:39 AM »
hahahaha holy shit.  The manhole? really?  That's orders of magnitude better than anything I've got.

I once dropped a flask containing ~100mL of MDP2P in HCl/MeOH, ready to be distilled out.  That combination smelled like shit and piss and it was EVERYWHERE.  Another time I was running an Al/Hg and nudged the addition funnel's stockcock unknowingly.  MDP2P/nitro pours into the flask for a good 30 seconds before I went back to check on it and thought "wow, thats a damn heavy reflux."  Liquid starts shooting out the condenser.  Luckily I had a virgeux column on top of it (great safety precaution FYI).  No liquid everywhere, but when I took the wet rag off the top of the column, MeNH2 gas spewed out of that bad boy like nobody's business.

NeilPatrickHarris

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2011, 12:47:40 PM »
2. Tripping on 2CB, decide to go in the lab and fuck around, don't ask why. End up spilling 5 grams of 2CB dissolved in HOAc all down the front of myself (not wearing a shirt) Immediately start thinking about the steep dose/response curve with this stuff and go into a 4 bell  panic thinking that I had OD'd and that the stuff would get me transdermally. You never saw anyone tear off the clothes and hit the shower so fast. I ended up destroying my lab during that trip. Safe to say it was  BAD trip. Started dumping all the chems down the sink, but when I dumped all the KMO4 down the drain it reacted with something else I had dumped down the drain earlier and a fucking GEYSER erupted out of the sink, and out of the manhole on the street outside. BIG MISTAKE.

holy shit, did neighbors not notice the manhole incident?

Tsathoggua

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2011, 12:56:16 PM »
Damn........

I wouldn't want to have been sitting on the dunny in the house next door when that one went off.

I can just picture the U-bend erupting in a scalding hot, corrosive purple geyser, hitting some poor fucker right smack bang in the chocolate starfish :D
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I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2011, 03:54:13 PM »
Two storys i was told about ---->

A dark dismal cloudy day where all the oh so nice "normal" citizens were going about their daily "lives" = lieing , cheating and stealing = a perfect day to do some dirty deeds in a 16 qm kitchen . On the electric plate a pan full of oil .....in the oil a 1.5 liter flask with an electric puke green water / chloraphil / alkaliod mixture in it . Next to that a sleepy stoned freak in his lab protection outfit = y-fronts with one hand inside scratching his balls . Then a lovely clear snap sound echoed round the room . Said freak wonders if the flask had broke so picks it up about 1 cm and then gets hit by a 1 femto second mental flash = "SHIT ! the flask bottom has broken off" and then a wordless vision of mental clarity of what was about to happen . Freak takes a step backwards and feels the wall and the cupboard behind him ........ to late for terror , solutions or any other thoughts . As his back and arse try to wedge themselves into the corner while tring to teleport to another planet to escape the comeing holocaust the flask makes a super dooper "WOOSH" sound and a puke green mixed with cooking hot oil lovely perfectly formed 15 cm wide gyser shoots up hits the ceeling and splatters over the whole room leaving .......guess what ? ....... yup loads and loads of shity oily puke green stains everywhere ...........except ....... as allah will ......on said freak ............

EPISODE 2 - Freak has a prety coloured liter of aceton / alkaloid solution in a dish with an electric fan blowing over it at three in the morning . Wind blowing through bog window , down hall , through bedroom and out of window . Freak watches TV and ........ smokes grass . After a bit freak hears some shouting and ignores it for 5 minutes not wanting to get involved at such a delicate point in his nocturnal experimenting binge . Then paranoia takes the upper hand and freak opens the balkony door to hear shouts from the apartment above from three neighbours hanging over their balkony "Stop it Stop It you are poisoning us" . Freak turns TV + all lights and the fan off and quietly closes all windows . Then shits his pants praying and trying to make deals with GOD = i promise i wont do it again . I am cured . I shall live like a normal brain dead social clone from now on .

Suddenly the night air is sliced through by a chorus of sirens and the blackness of the night turns flashing neon blue . Freak thinks "OH FUCK" and starts to try to get rid of every thing , wash things , hide things and think of excuses for the long and painfull death of his neigbours . While hes doing that the whole street fills with ambulances , fire engines and powleece cars whos ocupants then storm out and start wandering back and forth through the gardens looking for the source of the smell ....... wich is so much even they can smell it . Then they split into two groups the one starts knocking on doors asking the neighbours if they know whats happening . The other continues searching the gardens and bushes while talking ( shouting ) to poisoned neighbours still hanging of their balkony....... freak watches and listens through a crack in the curtains while knees shakeing haveing visions of said pigs storming apartment with drawn cocked guns ...... AGAIN ....... alternately mixed with pictures of victorian prisons and spending a life time cleaning the toilets with a tooth brush . Meenwhile in the garden one of the bastards stumbles over said freaks personal private stash = a plastic bag with about 1- 2 hundred grams of hash , 100 grams of grass , 100 grams of dry mushrooms , a few trips , some X , some TMA ......ya know ? Nothing big or nasty just the normal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfKBw3PHdBM  household emergency kit .......... While part of the herd of pigs gathers round and pokes the bag the other group carrys on knocking on doors and reaches the floor under freak a separate splinter group that had been haveing a doss in the bushes very pseudo energeticly trying to do nothing while hideing from their buisy collegues stumbles on some empty and open chemical barrels that the very nature friendly guys with an impecable social conscience who had been fixing the roof had so kindly and generously hidden there obviously to stop the dustbin container 10 meters away from being poluted .......... a cry went out "Its OK heres the cause" <------ = in polieece language "Fuck this for a lark lets sod off back to the station and watch TV and have a kip as usual and let them plebs murder eachother to death" . Freak breaths out ....... untill he hears that the group knocking on doors hadnt sussed that the terror threat level had oficialy been dropped from red = severe to green = low and was continueing to drag the neigbours out of bed . Freak went from floating a foot above the ground back to visions of alkatraz and stood by the apartment door with said dish full of aceton alkaloid mix now with several old n dirty paint brushes in it practicing ways of explaining that he had only been cleaning his paint brushes at three in the morning exactly because he didnt want to kill the neighbours . Three doors away after the most of the electric blue flashing neon light barage had set off direction TV and bed again the others woke up and about turned and followed them . Freak then crept off to second emergency emergency stash and spent the next hours filling his lungs with smoke while praying and thanking GOD .

Said freak now lives in paranoia thinking maybe GOD has something even more interesting prepared for him ....... and still years later takes the LONG route through the builders market so he doesnt even come near the aceton while at the same time demonstrably haveing his best "Me i dont even know what aceton is" grin on his face .......

jon

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2011, 09:20:03 PM »
i can't deciphere what you wrote could you condense that please ?
i'm feeble minded and i don't understand british slang all too well.
what? you had a flash fire? or your flask broke in a hot oil bath sending off a plume of chemicals?

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2011, 10:13:35 PM »
Dear Jon ,

Just for you here it is short .

2 storys .

First one .

A flask full of a water / alkaloid mixture in an oil bath broke sending a plume of it all upwards . It hit the ceeling and splattered over the whole room except for on my friend = a miracle .

Second one .

He tried to evaporate 1 liter of aceton at three in the morning and the neighbours called the emergency services and 30 - 40 - 50 police men , fire men and ambulance men turned up and there was a street full of flashing blue lights . They then went from door to door asking the neighbours if they new where it was comeing from .Threy found his stash in the garden and also some empty chemical barrels in the bushes wich they thought was the source of the smell . He very narrowly missed a nasty prison sentance .




Wow that was fuckin boreing . I prefer the previous full colour stereo 3D version i wrote before .

Get wll soon .

Love

Strangeness


EDITED three times to take the unjustifyed sarcasm out .
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 10:30:53 PM by The Lone Stranger »

salat

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2011, 03:16:20 AM »
Salat vs Nitric Acid

Did my homework on making Bismuth Nitrate - watched a youtube video of a guy dissolving some lumps of bismuth in Nitric Acid so I thought I was ready to go.

Um Bismuth powder dissolves/reacts a LOT faster in Nitric Acid than a lump of bismuth does.  Nice brown cloud - bit of whiff into the lungs and hubby evacuated me from the house.

(I was wearing gloves, face helmet and apron so I didn't know how strong the fumes were.  


Salat vs HCl

Tonight was trying to get some back projects finished.  Have an experiment to see how much palladium chloride you could make from those little foil filled tubes.  Did the aqua regia thing about 6 months ago.  Need to evaporate off the nitric and replace with HCl.  Set up standard distillation rig.   Came back to see HCl fumes coming out of the vacuum outlet of the 105 adapter.

Grabbed towel from laundry, wet it and put it over fuming end.  Go get hubby - he goes in and lowers the jack under the flask to stop the heat.  Get a fan going and he asks what concentration of HCl did I use - 32%.  He explains that the azeotrope is at 28% and that I should put water into the receiving flask and a tube to the bottom (like a bubbler).

So i got a bit of HCl lungs to go with the sinus problems.

And the answer to the palladium is not much - there's brown dust in the bottom of the flash - probably too little to measure.

Salat
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 03:19:00 AM by salat »
Salat

lugh

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2011, 04:26:29 AM »
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

jon

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #132 on: May 29, 2011, 06:26:40 AM »
definitely use a fume hood with nitric and hydrochloric acid
a water aspirator could have saved you the police visit.
no odors, down the drain.
essential for doing apartment chemistry.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2011, 09:54:29 AM »
Lucky bastard getting away with that, TLS.

Shite that your story subject lost that stash though. The toad-guy that tells me so much of the goings on in his lab, beneath the earth, in blackest N'kai,  He would have been tempted to launch some concentrated, very hot HNO3 the way of those coppers:P



Then again he would anway
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I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2011, 10:42:34 AM »
As you liked that tale of idiocy heres another one   ............ Said freak had a 15 liter carboy nearly full of a saturated KOH in water + alkaloids solution . Was giveing it a swirl every 15 minutes or so to try to get all the KOH to disolve and as it was so heavy and cumbersome and he wasnt conncentrateing about a liter ? of the shit gushed out and ran down his arm from the elbow to the hand .  Freak didnt panic , stayed calm but was haveing visions of a life with an arm that looked like a piece of burnt and melted plastic ........ freak put carboy down went to shower and turned the tap on to the niagara falls setting and kept it there for what seemed like three or four hours while trying to rub aflicted arm with other hand and soap . As if to prove his theory that "GOD" has something realy nasty in store for him the arm didnt drop of , wilt or even show any imediate signs of anything nasty . The next day it looked like it had a strong sun burn and felt like it had been stung by a herd of wasps . The feeling went through the skin and right to the bone and felt like into the bone and took about 6 weeks to totaly disapear . Freak was gratefull that said solution didnt hit his chopper as them y-fronts are not the best protection in cases like that .

Tsathoggua

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2011, 11:00:14 AM »
Owch what a thought.....KMnO4 there is bad enough....

Accident to remember that one was...scratching arse after working with finely powdered KMnO4...burnt for days and left dark MnO2 marks there, front and back.

Oddly, my tender, vital flesh doesn't seem to mind NaOH, never got KOH on me, but plenty of the former. Getting it on one's tongue stings though (actually its how I test to see if I cleaned my labware properly if NaOH solutions are involved, assuming there isn't anything unpleasant in there, if it stings when licked, it needs better cleaning...)

I have spilled conc. NaOH on my arm/hand before, washed it off later, and it never seemed to burn.

Get it in your eyes though, and oh boy is it trouble.

After the time I had boiling alcohol, a certain lactone and NaOH erupt in my face after it went beyond reflux and into 'boomff!fuckfuckfuckfuckingfuckedfuck'' territory my vision in one eye is now very poor. Little kids sometimes make mistakes learning the art, and that one, was one that really should have never been made, boiling stones should have been used.

15L flask? nice....could do with one of those for things such as the haloform, etc. that need vast overly large dilution or quantities of solvent/reactant.

On skin though it doesn't even burn. Probably would if left long enough, even spits of fused NaOH haven't been noticed until way, way later and washed off, after doing electrolysis.

Until you are damn sure you won't ever allow something like that to happen again, never work with HF......is all I can say. As that quite literally WILL go straight through your skin, and dissolve your bones from the inside out.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Methyl Man

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2011, 04:34:24 PM »
Back around the year 2000 A.D. the fictitious character Methyl Man was attempting one of his earliest nitro/Al/Hg reductions but for some stupid reason lost to time, was using some kind of thick pie plate aluminum... maybe because he had read it was a calmer reaction to do so, or some such thing. (Like a moron, he was set up in the KITCHEN of a small rented cottage).

Finding that the reaction was going far more slowly than he thought it should, he remembered reading something written by Osmium or one of those cats about adding a small amount of NaOH solution to a sluggish reduction to speed it up. So he added "a bit", seemingly very little... what could it hurt?

Oh, it sped it up, alright... about two minutes later, he saw the stuff start to climb up the condenser. Slowly at first, but inexorably. He knew the truth of what was happening even while the other part of his mind tried to deny it. He realized he had about 5 to 10 seconds to do anything he was going to do before getting the fuck out. He closed the nearby cabinets containing the landlady's china and what-not. That was about all he could do in the time he had. He ran out of the kitchen and watched in horror from the corner by the door leading out to the back yard. The grey bubbly geyser picked up speed climbing the condenser and then like a chemical Old Faithful, half the flask contents shot out of the condenser straight up and hit the ceiling, splat!!

His immediate concern was Hg vapors, so he held his breath and ran through the house opening all windows, feeling quite stupid and angry with himself. After the house seemed to have aired out as much as it was going to, he put on gloves, heavy clothes, glasses and a respirator and set about cleaning the shit up.

To this day he worries about the amount of Hg he may have been exposed to, not to mention the poor lady who had to come back a few months later and live in the house and cook in that kitchen. He is pretty sure he'd go to hell for that one, if he believed in such, but he was unwilling to go to prison at the time so he wasn't exactly going to, like, tell anyone about it.

This was his first and last accident, and taught him to never deviate from a known procedure on a whim and based on a sketchy memory of something he didn't understand.
There's a methyl to my madness...
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lugh

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #137 on: May 30, 2011, 05:48:02 PM »
Quote
Oh, it sped it up, alright... about two minutes later, he saw the stuff start to climb up the condenser. Slowly at first, but inexorably. He knew the truth of what was happening even while the other part of his mind tried to deny it. He realized he had about 5 to 10 seconds to do anything he was going to do before getting the fuck out. He closed the nearby cabinets containing the landlady's china and what-not. That was about all he could do in the time he had. He ran out of the kitchen and watched in horror from the corner by the door leading out to the back yard. The grey bubbly geyser picked up speed climbing the condenser and then like a chemical Old Faithful, half the flask contents shot out of the condenser straight up and hit the ceiling, splat!!

In times like that, the well prepared chemist immerses the flask in some ice cold water and wraps the upper portion of the flask and the outside of the condenser with towels wetted with the same cooling liquid  ;)  The well prepared chemist also has a tube leading into a container for the overflow, and knows enough to have what's needed to chelate any mercury ingested when all else fails:

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,520.msg5666.html#msg5666

on hand to take as a supplement if needed  ;)  The end results from the effort applied  8)
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oldguy

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #138 on: May 30, 2011, 08:46:04 PM »
Leaving the stopcock on a sep funnel open while pouring into the top. . .

Shake

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Re: Lab Accidents
« Reply #139 on: June 01, 2011, 11:59:46 AM »
Quote
The end results from the effort applied

Lugh, you have my full respect, i know you have been around since the war, (on drugs)

I dont disagree with this comment at all as i understand it, but i would love if you gave a full version of what you mean by this?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 12:01:33 PM by Shake »