Author Topic: Tramadol for Opiate Withdrawal? (Read 283 times)

no1uno · « **on:** September 05, 2009, 09:26:23 PM »

OK, believe it or not, I've had a fair bit of experience with opiate withdrawal and despite hesitating to discuss this subject, I have something to share

Tramadol is a painkiller I've been using on and off now for years and I've noticed something odd - it will entirely mask/relieve the symptoms I associate with opiate withdrawal (both morphine & codeine - ie. exactly the same symptoms) whilst having no appreciable opiate-type withdrawal symptoms of it's own (that I've noticed anyway). I know that the information sheet that comes with it warns of them, but I've basically been known to forget to take it or even just stop taking it after months and no real issues whatsoever (especially when compared to the ones I avoided coming onto it from various opiates - try forgetting to dose when you have a morphine habit, you'll remember real fucking quick). If there are withdrawal symptoms, they are MILD as hell, which makes this the best option for mine.

Vesp · « **Reply #1 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:45:25 PM »

Very interesting, how might one acquire this? It seems to be prescription only in most places.
Does it alone have any recreational potential?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapentadol This looks interesting as well, and possibly simple enough to make.

Sedit · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2009, 10:52:29 PM »

I know someone that is highly addicted but won't admit it to pain killers. She eats anyware from 10-20 hydrocodone aday but even a couple tramadol and she can't stand the high. This may be one thing that would hinder anyone from using this to do away with withdrawl symtoms. I personaly don't care for the effects to much either as it feels as though it has a hint of "SSRI effect " to it as well leaving me a bit agitated even on a small dose of it.

It does have an unusual structure for an optiate which may prove useful in withdraw simular to how Methadone and others work to aliviate withdraws.

no1uno · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2009, 11:44:45 PM »

I really wouldn't say I've ever noticed a "HIGH" with Tramadol, then again, I don't with Codeine either (Morphine I just function - but I do notice the initial buzz @ present, but once the habit is built up not so much, Tramadol reminds me of Methadone in terms of a "HIGH" - fucking near non-existent).

One thing to note - Tramadol is now being looked at as an anti-depressent and Cymbalta (Duloxetine.HCl) is being considered for "Narcotic Pain Relief"

In terms of structure - it has an aryl methyl ether bonded to a cyclohexyl ring (as does codeine/morphine), together with a tertiary amine group, interesting isn't it? Cos' it could be drawn to overlay a codeine molecule just with certain structural features missing (the OH hanging off the cyclohexyl ring would be equivalent to the ether group of codeine/morphine), the N-dimethylethylamine chain could, IIRC, be seen to be equivalent to that rising from the bottom of the cyclohexyl ring of codeine/morphine (ie. the side of the pyridine ring) and the short side too (one of the methyl groups) which would copy the other bond from that ring back onto the cyclohexyl ring...

heisenberg · « **Reply #4 on:** September 06, 2009, 03:48:42 PM »

Tramadol is used as a veterinary painkiller, and as such is available online for about $.10 a pill (50mg) last time I checked.

I would say that tramadol certainly has recreational effects. In my experience, it caused sedation, tiredness, and a mild euphoric feeling.

jon · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2009, 05:36:02 AM »

tramadol is good for the opiate kick in my personal expirience you go through a measure of hell but not nearly as bad w/o it.

bigbigbeaker · « **Reply #6 on:** September 19, 2009, 03:41:15 AM »

I thought I would chime in on one of my two specialities, narcotics. Tramadol is great for opiate withdrawal because it is a narcotic. I used it in Mexico when I ran out of opium during a cruise. I thought I was in a real jam until I found it. There's not much in the way of legal drugstore narcotics in Mexico. Thank god for tramadolm Why it works so well is because both Tramadol and it 5 first past metabolites are narcotics that bind to the mu receptor. That's the good receptor that is responsible for euphoria. Tramadol takes three or four hours to digest, then it has a half life of 9 hours. So with a gut full of food and slowly dissolving Tramadol, it could take a full day for withdrawal to start and another day to really get going. Plus the na reuptake inhibitor withdrawal is hitting you at the same time. Tramadol withdrawal also lasts longer. If you don't go into w/d from Tramadol, either you didn't wait long enough or you didn't have the habit you thought you did. I have learned over the decades what every addict learns. There is no free lunch ever with narcotics. Cymbalta is real interesting drug with an equally interesting history but it is not a narcotic. Narcotics all share a common property - their effect can be reversed with an antagonist like naloxone. I'm writing from the perspective of a 40 year addict who started with demerol, moved to heroin and is now maintained on buprenorphine, 32 mg per day. I'll add my 2 bits if we get a bupe post going some day. I have a lot to say about that drug.

no1uno · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2009, 05:09:14 PM »

Fair call - how does "BUPE" compare to 'done?

As for the withdrawals - I have some idea of what they are, I've been to hell twice jumping off the Gov't sponsored Methadone wagon (up to 110mg/day) and have been up to 240mg/day on Morph.

Unsure why it does mask/prevent the worst of the symptoms for me, but it actually does (yeah, the hesitancy in the initial post came from the knowledge that free lunches *don't* exist on opiates)... That said, I'm not claiming it is a side-effect free alternative to morphine addiction long-term, merely that if used during the period during which opiate withdrawal is occurring it can (has in fact for me) masked/prevented the worst of the symptoms, without any noticeable withdrawal (from Tramadol) if use is stopped within a month or two after the withdrawal period from the other opiate is over. Note I have yet to notice and/or experience Tramadol withdrawal, then again the longest I've ever used it is currently, about 5 months (100mg/twice daily).

I'm not pimping the drug, all I'm doing is reporting an unusual pharmacological phenomena from personal experience. As far as euphoria goes, I'd have to rate it about the same as Methadone - non-existent.

hypnos · « **Reply #8 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:20:29 AM »

hmmmm? there is a lot of controversy about tramadol Hcl as its neuropharmacology is not well understood-some hospitals over here refuse to administer/provide it....

that said...
yeah not too bad for moderating opiate w/d's but get above 200mg pd and you will certainly notice the wd's--have you had sneezing attacks when you stopped? go to a higher dose and get more punishment- 100mg tramadol is considered = to 20mg morph analgesically but not euphorically...

however...
.it is a seretonin agonist and a dose of 200mg gives a bit of a speedy-mild e like buzz--more than 400mg pd has been known to induce "seretonin syndrome" which is basically what too much MDMA(+friends) can initiate.....

most GPs will prescribe it without much drama- for moderate to ? pain

i too have a great deal of experience with mood and mind altering subs for a loooong time now and have many opinions

the BEST advice on how to manage opiate wd's without going backwards is to re-establish your neurotransmitter balances with diet via amino acids-see"how2quit.com"

jon · « **Reply #9 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:38:16 AM »

the real question here is:
why dick with tramadol if you have heroin?
or have free access to it like swij does and if swij does heroin well no 2 ways about it there's always the consequences so fuck it just do the heroin.

Sedit · « **Reply #10 on:** October 06, 2009, 02:48:43 AM »

Well something tells me that Heroin for opiate withdrawal might not be the best of ideas. Atlest with tramadol chances are your taking the lesser of two evils. I think that was the goal with methadon as well until they started to realize that its no better then heroin anyway.

hypnos · « **Reply #11 on:** October 06, 2009, 03:18:35 AM »

jons got a point..but this thread is about alleviating wd's with tramal..not getting a habit-

-methadone was a synthetic opiate made by Hitlers chemists coz d allies cut off germany's opium supplies
it was originally called dolophine....after adolph
it is not a very effective drug for its suggested uses--aka---liquid handcuffs

sadly there arre not enough pharmacologists like Shulgin who actually try their own products!!! hence my affinity for wasps!!

ps. jon i stole one of your posts from madsci to post here--re;proprionic anhydride--i would still like a bit more detail re the Na pyrosulphate--can i u2u u?unfortunately i'm not getting much feedback from here

no1uno · « **Reply #12 on:** October 06, 2009, 05:44:08 AM »

Yeah sneezing, some mild nausea, etc. Nothing I would really term serious *down* time, in fact, remarkably painless

If you have free access to H, by all means, enjoy

Maybe bear this in mind for when the supply runs out (and it ALWAYS runs out)...

jon · « **Reply #13 on:** October 06, 2009, 07:19:06 AM »

it always does run out you can definitely say that again.

hypnos · « **Reply #14 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:08:54 AM »

yep it always does (one way or another)

hey no1ono

for buprenorphine,,go Wiki,, they have a very understandable description(tho they fail to mention its long term negative effects)
which is typical for a drug synthed first in 1985-hide the possible problems give us the money first,,and you (d public users) can find out
about the consequences of (enter many drugs) when you do!!!

have you ever noticed on the product information sheets almost "every,all+any" even slightly possible side affects are listed?
so they can cover their arses by saying "well we told you...."
selfish greedy bastards iif you ask me

iam not surre if maybe there should be a seperate thread for each of these substances-they are related in effect somewhat-but thats about all

coz of a drs fuckup which caused SEVERE withdrawals from methadone
i ended up in hospital vomiting blood-

personally i like the drug about as much as i like all the wonderful govt "controls" that "save us from ourselves"

if anyone wants more specific data feel free to u2u me

hypnos · « **Reply #15 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:35:37 AM »

Tramadol, (1RS,2RS)-2-[(dimethylamine)-methyl]-1-(3-methoxyphenyl)-cyclohexanol hydrochloride

anything look familiar to anyone.....

jovialbaker · « **Reply #16 on:** November 02, 2009, 03:17:31 PM »

Supposedly tramadol can be easily converted (talking kitchen status) into "something" else. I keep hearing people talk about it but have yet to really look into it.

There is also that O-Desmethyltramadol on the market now.

Tramadol for w/d is better than nothing. Hell, poppy seeds are better than nothing in that situation - either flour or PST.

Tramadol on its own was pretty useless for swim - the fact it takes so long to be 'barely' effective and has those nasty ssri properties takes it right off the list.
Bupe(subs) is NASTY. I have no idea how people can stay on bupe maintenance or done for that matter. Done is fucking evil shit.

SWIM likes to keep around a good variety of different herbals and otc/rx options, including but not limited to: adderall, dxm, cats claw, kratom, booze, linden, carob - well i could go on for a bit. Some say loperamide otc helps, but never actually met someone who it helped.

timecube · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:28:27 PM »

Apparently it's standard procedure to bump this thread once a month, so here's my go (I haven't looked around in this section of the forum much, so it's the first time I noticed the thread.)

Tramadol does not feel at all to me like the warm, pleasant experience of opiates. Rather, it just sedates me. I woke up early after having taken quite a bit one time, and I felt heavy and sluggish, like the beginning of a dextromethorphan high.. except when it's a centrally acting opioid causing those feelings, you're aware that it's doing the same to your breathing and heart rate, which can be mildly unnerving.

To get back to pharmacology, I would say the alcohol part of it prevents BBB crossing to some extent. If you reduce the alcohol, the new substance will violate the "morphine rule" (you will no longer have a quarternary carbon separated by two carbons from the nitrogen.) You can't oxidize to an aldehyde, so the only reasonable choice I see to potentially increase the recreational effects would be to methylate the alcohol to a methoxy group.

I'm not sure if methylation would be so simple as DMS or similar. I don't see anything else that I'm aware it would effect, but I know there are some nitrogen based compounds that cleave when you attempt to methylate them (I don't know the specifics or what it's called to check, so I have no clue if it's remotely applicable here, just something that I'm aware of.)

Tramadol at high doses or in combination with other opiates is known to have the potential to cause seizures, so that's something to keep in mind when considering the idea of making it stronger.

jon · « **Reply #18 on:** April 30, 2010, 10:24:29 PM »

O=DEmethylated tramdal is a popular rc now desmethyl tramadol with the tertiary alcolhol esterified could get interesting as an rc of ccourse.

jon · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2010, 10:25:33 PM »

thai kratom is better for the old kick

Author Topic: Tramadol for Opiate Withdrawal? (Read 283 times)

no1uno

Tramadol for Opiate Withdrawal?

Vesp

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Sedit

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no1uno

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heisenberg

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jon

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bigbigbeaker

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no1uno

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hypnos

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jon

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Sedit

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hypnos

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no1uno

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jon

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hypnos

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hypnos

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jovialbaker

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timecube

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jon

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jon

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