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Author Topic: safrole or isosafrole?  (Read 169 times)

superlative

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safrole or isosafrole?
« on: October 14, 2009, 04:47:35 PM »
If one has something one know is safrole but isnt sure if it already is isomerized.....  It was put in the freezer but only a tiny bit of crystals was floating on top. trans> has a higher melting point and cis has a lower. What would be the best way to determine the true nature of these drops? pardon my ignorance....would it be harmful to isomerize again just to be sure? or if it is already isomerized...would a wacker be harmful?

thanx again

jon

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 04:48:35 PM »
you are a noob do  a m.p.  or boiling ponit test.
try refractive index probably best test for this or nmr to deterine location of double bond.

oh btw "it's Bond, molecular Bond"
just joshing
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 04:58:07 PM by jon »

styphnate

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2009, 01:12:49 AM »
I think his point is that an mp wouldn't work because the trans and cis isomers have different mps and it may be a mix of isomers.

However, even if this is the case, some fractional crystallization would likely occur, which would indicate that the compound is isosafrole and allow him to perform mp's on the resultant fractions.

Also, if it is part safrole and part isosafrole that could be a problem.  I'm not sure though, as I have never worked with the compound myself.

lugh

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2009, 10:31:43 AM »
This is probably the easiest way:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/safrole.congealing.html

Isosafrole produces a burgundy color when sulfuric acid is added to it. You will need to do a proper fractional vacuum distillation to separate safrole from isosafrole. You can reisomerize it too.

 8)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 10:34:39 AM by lugh »
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

jon

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2009, 02:44:23 PM »
so does safrole in regards to:

*Isosafrole produces a burgundy color when sulfuric acid is added to it.*
in fact that's how swij test for bromosafrole
h2so4 does'nt react with bromosafrole it just sits on the top try it some time.

lugh

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 05:19:39 PM »
Formation of the pseudnitrosite is another test for the propenylbenzene:

take a small arbitrary amount of isosafrole, dissolve it in ten volumes ether, dissolve five molar equivalents sodium nitrite, in the minimum amount of water required,  add two and a half molar equivalents of 20-25% sulfuric acid. you should see a yellowing of the etherial layer followed by precipitate at the water/ether interface after two to three hours

 8)

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Sedit

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 07:30:38 PM »
That is one way you be able to test for propenylbenzenes but I have never seen it go as planned yet. Another persons as well was having the same extreamly low yeilds that I seen. Im sure improvements could be made but after a couple test it was abandon for lack of good results.

I think Lugh stated in his other post about your best course of action if your unable to determine it thru other means. Just isomerize the shit again with some KOH and be sure you got your goods instead of guessing because in all honesty if you had to ask this question it means you may get mixed results when trying to test for isosafrole and screw yourself up somewhere down the line.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

NeilPatrickHarris

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Re: safrole or isosafrole?
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2009, 03:00:09 AM »
i seem to recall talk on the hive that safrole or isosafrole can be used in the wacker but i can't recall which wacker they were referring to.  can anyone confirm this?
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