Author Topic: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute  (Read 420 times)

Sedit

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An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« on: October 18, 2009, 08:33:32 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/v/4tvR1khXKnI&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

Here is the link incase I have not gotten the imbeding correct yet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tvR1khXKnI&feature=player_embedded

Another video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYk_nr4p_r4

There has been much talk of this in the past but no one to my knowledge has attempted it yet. This Video pretty much says it all if you ask me, look how reactive that is. It appears to be reacting much quicker then the Al/Hg amalgum.

This is something that needs to become common place ASAP if we desire the DEA to stop bitching about Hg pollution and crap. This post is a bit shabby at the moment since I had no plans on starting this thread but I thought it may be something that interest some of you.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 09:06:22 PM by Sedit »
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Vesp

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 09:17:08 PM »
Yes! However, is gallium even close to as easy to get as mercury?
I believe someone on SM has been working on this, but I think they actually made an alloy out of gallium and something else that had an even lower melting point, and was supposed to work even better.

I wonder if buying woods metal and dissolving that would work well? It melts in hot water.

IIRC woods metal, or something similar is used in heat-activated sprinkling systems - the metal melts and allows the water to flow out. 
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Enkidu

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 11:12:15 PM »
gallium is pretty toxic

Sedit

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 11:30:53 PM »
Umm.....No....

The LD-50 in mice is 2.15 g/kg for Ga nitrate, That is far from toxic. It has also been shown in somecases of disease such as graves syndrome being caused by gallium deficiency. Where as its not something I would eat for breakfast its low toxicity puts Mercury to shame.
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Grenouille

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 10:02:03 PM »
It's pretty easy to get as far as I can tell...
Any thoughts on potential problems with using something like this? Seems like a much better alternative than trying to round up/synthesize HgCl2 without poisoning someone.

Enkidu

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 07:10:34 AM »
every time i've worked with gallium, they've warned me about it specifically

Grenouille

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 04:34:06 PM »
LD50 for HgCl2: 1mg/kg in rats (http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m1469.htm)
I think I'd rather take my chances with gallium.

The only problem as I see it is that the reaction rate with gallium/aluminum is really fast.

"Poisoning of catalysis in one approach used to minimize rapid dissolution of the metal and to abate evolution of H2. Amalgams made between sodium and mercury have the effect of diminishing the activity of the parent metal, thus slowing dissolution of the reducing species. Amalgamation between aluminum and mercury has the added benefit of preventing oxide formation on the surfce of the aluminum in contact with air. Aluminum-mercury amalgam serves as a poison to the metal somewhere between the extremes of the over-active metal and the inactive metal oxide" (http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/amphetamine.reduction.html)

I suppose you could just add the amalgam in small pieces over the course of the reaction rather than all at once...

Prepuce1

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2009, 02:48:55 AM »
I bought 10g of gallic acid from a photo supply  company for $10. I assume the element is fairly expensive as well. Mercury can be obtained very inexpensively but there is the issue of toxicity.

Is there a way the acid could be used instead of elemental gallium in this process?

PP

heisenberg

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2009, 01:51:02 PM »
Gallic acid is 3,4,5-trihydroxybenzoic acid, it contains no gallium.
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shroomedalice

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 01:04:36 AM »
Most of the metals that you could want are available on ebay for element collectors.
I am thinking of getting some sellenium from there though it is quite expensive.
I guess some gallium might be the next thanx sedit.

Wizard X

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2009, 01:28:36 AM »
Look at "PREPARATION OF THE AMALGAM" in http://www.clays.org/journal/archive/volume%2019/19-5-337.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amalgam_(chemistry)

Aluminium amalgam may be prepared by either grinding aluminium pellets or wire in mercury, or by allowing aluminium wire to react with a solution of mercury(II) chloride in water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_amalgam
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Prepuce1

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 03:43:44 AM »
Thanks, Heisenberg. Of course I <cough> knew that, and am reassured that others do as well.

To be honest the gallic acid was purchased along with the actual desired substance so it wouldn't stand conspicuously alone on the order. Hence my ignorance. Now where's a blushing smiley when I need one?

PP

beatleguce

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2012, 09:44:39 AM »
holy balls thats shit has a kick dont it?   Gallium shouldnt be hard to get, a quick look on amazon will show many sources  nerdrage

suggests using galliumsource.com and get a 5% discount by typing nerdrage in the coupon section...swims currently talking with this

guy over at sciencemadness about selling swim sum ga for $1.00 per gram hes got a shit load., if you want to talk to the guy about

buying some just pm and will hook up his tag on SM, (dont trip, swims no weasel  no fees or any bs like that :D)  Or you can 

buy a bunch of those mercury free thermometers, since they are using gallium (or rather galinstan mix) as substitute. Swim also read

galinstan can be used in amalgam////Shit swim thought bees had already done this rxn  ???      In about 2 days swims order of

calcium pyruvate will get to the local food health store near swim, then he will attempt an l-pac and WAS going to try for the Al/Ga

but swim doesnt want to attempt a synth for his first time on a method that theoretically SHOULD work...Swim needs sucessful

reactions first. <sigh> guess swim gots to just suck it up and conquer his fear of Hg....fuck it....gotta source some tilt switches or something

overunity33

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2012, 10:04:43 AM »
This is nice because you can make gallium/aluminum alloys custom ratios at low temperature heating by kneading it with aluminum powder and heating.

atara

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 04:21:55 PM »
every time i've worked with gallium, they've warned me about it specifically
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bubble

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 05:56:46 PM »
Gallium is nearly non-toxic. it has only some corrosive character on skin and mucosa. But the LD of most Gallium salts are over 1g/kg for humans, which is nearly non toxic like Sodium salts etc.


Wizard X

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2012, 07:11:50 AM »
Albert Einstein - "Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds."

Sneak

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 11:55:20 PM »
Any more thoughts on this or info. I like the idea of this as I don't like the idea of mercury. As a newbee a hazmat clean up is out of the question for any spray painting that may occur.
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no_dream

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Re: An Aluminum/Gallium Alloy as Hg substitute
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2012, 06:01:52 PM »
Doesn't like Hg too, much concerned about getting Hg ions into product. As for Hg, any salt works, an galinstan alloy thermometer dissolved in nitric should work too. Sn, In should not interfere.  Why all reactions are adding Hg salts to the mixture? I believe amalgamating Al in Hg or Ga salt solution and washing it with water and alcohol is much cleaner, yet more laborious.