Author Topic: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?  (Read 95 times)

Vesp

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Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« on: January 01, 2009, 12:12:15 AM »
   After hearing  from multiple sources that the elaeagnus angustifolia likely
contained harmala alkaloids, I decided I would do a few experiments and find out.

   I acquired some elaeagnus angustifolia bark, leaves, and berries and made a solution with each. The leaves, bark and the fruit of the berries all seemed to have an easily detectable amounts of harmala alkaloids. The harmala alkaloids were detected with a black light. The bark produced a dark brown solution that fluoresced yellow-green under a black
light, while the leafs and berries created a nearly clear solution that fluoresced more yellow under a black light.

   What I have observed through the simple test black light test, along with what I have read from sources as well as this post on Erowid, I am convinced that there is a significant amount of harmala alkaloids in elaeagnus angustifolia to make it well worth while to extract or to make an ayahuasca analogue from.

If anyone tries an ayahuasca mixture with elaeagnus angustifolia, or extracts the harmala alkaloids further please let me know. I am very interested in hearing about it.

I have attached a very poor picture of the extracts fluorescence.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 11:37:25 PM by Vesp »
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Vesp

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 12:00:38 AM »
Now that it is starting to be spring, the leaves will becoming back on the Russian olive.
besides the normal dangerous of taking a MAOI, think their are any others involved in taking the leafs of this plants? As far as I know, this has never been tried. I would think if it were deadly, you would have heard about cows or something dieing.

Maybe a Russian olive tree is always around when animals get "sheep staggers" since they've had both DMT (from the grass) and harmala alkaloids.

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Vesp

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2010, 12:47:00 AM »
All right, as it is obvious that is is either a forgotten issue, or one no one cares about...I'll be changing the topic.

I have had a considerably hard time extracting the harmala alkalioids out of this plant, which it does contain. I'd like to see this be able to yield some nice crystals, but I have had no luck with it -- Does anyone have ideas on how I might effectively do this?
I know there are several ways, the most common using salting out techniques when it comes to seeds of peganum harmala, but I don't think that will work here very well, due to the teas concentration being much lower in alkaloids, and much higher in oils.
Solvent extraction is an option, but I don't know how this could be done, I am pretty sure harmala alkaloids do not form decent salts with acids.
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jon

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2010, 04:38:40 AM »
column chromatography

Sedit

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2010, 05:17:32 AM »
Or something more realisting........

 do you have the majority of the materials present in the plant? If so Im sure I could work out a nice extraction for you real quick, atlest in theory. Chemical seperation and purification is one of my stronger points. Odds are if the alkaloids are hard to form nice crystals, its more then likely due to the fact of using a mineral acid such as HCl since some materials form salts that are hygroscopic much easier then larger organic salts. If you are able to condence a Non polar solution of the material it may become possible to form the basic base of the material and produce crystals thru that manner but they would be more unstable and prone to oxygen/
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Vesp

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2010, 05:59:52 AM »
Well, I don't know the other compounds, other then the oils and tannins one expects, but I don't think the typical solvent extraction works with beta-carbolines does it? If they do, I would just use that. They crystallize easily via the salt water process, but that was unsuccessful with this method. Perhaps the harmala in this plant is just two low? despite it easily forming bright glowing solutions especially with the bark.
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Sedit

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2010, 06:13:02 AM »
Tannins will give you a false positive on the blacklight test.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

salat

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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 12:36:09 AM »
I'm going to try again - I think I brought the site down when I tried to upload a pdf.

Harmala alkaloids have been in use since the 1800's so the old journals have a lot of stuff in them about it.  I've been researching how to turn it into THH which I hear is a better form to take.  I've got another reference for how to do that but you can't search on THH because they called it something else then.


This is the Handbook of Chemistry Circa 1864

http://books.google.com/books?id=MfQ4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA117&dq=harmaline&lr=&as_brr=1&ei=uWv8S-yUM4GizQTN7fDBAw&cd=1#v=onepage&q=harmaline&f=false

This book has a nice write up in it on Harmine, Harmaline etc and how to manipulate it in various ways including crystalization. 
The section on Harmala alkaloids starts on page 103.  Page 116 has 2 write ups on crystalizing Harmaline.  They sound like reasonably detailed instructions, the sort of thing I might attempt under guidance of hubby when I'm well rested and have a brain. 

salat
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Re: Elaeagnus Angustifolia - A Source for Harmala Alkaloids?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 08:58:13 PM »
Manske's method of precipitating the harmala hydrochlorides from a cold NaCl solution works very well. The precipitate does need to be repeatably cleaned with alcohol though.

It is perhaps the narcotic. Hyoscine affects certain people very oddly. One cannot be sure. Sometimes, these cases take strange forms. The victim becomes in a sense, 'mediumistic', a vehicle for all the intangible forces in operation around her.