Author Topic: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation  (Read 347 times)

Ventillator

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Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« on: February 11, 2010, 02:02:02 PM »
Quote
J. Philip Mason, Lewis I. Terry
J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1940, 62 (6), p 1622
DOI: 10.1021/ja01863a506
Publication Date: June 1940



Mmmmmmmm........ yummy P2P.... in bulk... Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. Delicious............ Stuff............
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 02:03:41 PM by Ventillator »
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Enkidu

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 09:54:21 PM »
shit yields

Naf1

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 10:27:40 PM »
Free-Radical alkylation of Benzene with Acetone Catalyzed by Manganese(III)Acetate

Phenyl-2-Propanone can be made in a single step by a free-radical reaction between benzene and acetone. The reaction relies upon the special oxidative powers of manganese(III)acetate, a compound easily prepared from potassium permanganate. The yield is relatively low, and requires high dilution of the reactants, but this can be improved, and the reaction is also applicable for other substituted benzenes, as can be seen in the comprehensive Manganese(III)acetate catalyzed aromatic acetonylation document on this site.

around 40% yields.

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/phenylacetone.html

I just have to point out, I dont know if you know? Benzene is some nasty shit, small exposures lead to a massive increase in the chance of contracting nasty shit like blood cancer. It was completely phased out in industry years ago for this reason, from wiki;

"The short term breathing of high levels of benzene can result in death, while low levels can cause drowsiness, dizziness, rapid heart rate, headaches, tremors, confusion, and unconsciousness. Eating or drinking foods containing high levels of benzene can cause vomiting, irritation of the stomach, dizziness, sleepiness, convulsions, and death.
The major effects of benzene are chronic (long-term) exposure through the blood. Benzene damages the bone marrow and can cause a decrease in red blood cells, leading to anemia. It can also cause excessive bleeding and depress the immune system, increasing the chance of infection.

Benzene causes leukemia and is associated with other blood cancers and pre-cancers of the blood.

 Benzene targets liver, kidney, lung, heart and the brain and can cause DNA strand breaks, chromosomal damage etc. Benzene causes cancer in both animals and humans. Benzene was first reported to induce cancer in humans in the 1920s. The chemical industry claims it wasn't until 1979 that the cancer inducing properties were determined "conclusively" in humans, despite many references to this fact in the medical literature. Industry exploited this "discrepancy" and tried to discredit animal studies which showed benzene caused cancer saying that they weren't relevant to humans. Benzene has been shown to cause cancer in both sexes of multiple species of laboratory animals exposed via various routes.[20][21]

One way of understanding the carcinogenic effects of benzene is by examining the products of biological oxidation. Pure benzene, for example, oxidizes in the body to produce an epoxide, benzene oxide, which is not excreted readily and can interact with DNA to produce harmful mutations.

lugh

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 01:06:17 AM »
As was stated in:

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,800.msg9600/topicseen.html#msg9600

this reaction is very dangerous  :(  It's only redeeming quality is that it's possible to produce more aluminum chloride with the hydrogen chloride that's released during the Freidel-Crafts reaction, but with all the other problems that have to bee dealt with it's not exactly a route that should be encouraged  ::) It literally sucks  8)
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Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2010, 05:24:19 AM »
Free-Radical alkylation of Benzene with Acetone Catalyzed by Manganese(III)Acetate

Phenyl-2-Propanone can be made in a single step by a free-radical reaction between benzene and acetone. The reaction relies upon the special oxidative powers of manganese(III)acetate, a compound easily prepared from potassium permanganate. The yield is relatively low, and requires high dilution of the reactants, but this can be improved, and the reaction is also applicable for other substituted benzenes, as can be seen in the comprehensive Manganese(III)acetate catalyzed aromatic acetonylation document on this site.

around 40% yields.

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/phenylacetone.html


I just have to point out, I dont know if you know? Benzene is some nasty shit, small exposures lead to a massive increase in the chance of contracting nasty shit like blood cancer. It was completely phased out in industry years ago for this reason, from wiki;

"The short term breathing of high levels of benzene can result in death, while low levels can cause drowsiness, dizziness, rapid heart rate, headaches, tremors, confusion, and unconsciousness. Eating or drinking foods containing high levels of benzene can cause vomiting, irritation of the stomach, dizziness, sleepiness, convulsions, and death.
The major effects of benzene are chronic (long-term) exposure through the blood. Benzene damages the bone marrow and can cause a decrease in red blood cells, leading to anemia. It can also cause excessive bleeding and depress the immune system, increasing the chance of infection.

Benzene causes leukemia and is associated with other blood cancers and pre-cancers of the blood.

 Benzene targets liver, kidney, lung, heart and the brain and can cause DNA strand breaks, chromosomal damage etc. Benzene causes cancer in both animals and humans. Benzene was first reported to induce cancer in humans in the 1920s. The chemical industry claims it wasn't until 1979 that the cancer inducing properties were determined "conclusively" in humans, despite many references to this fact in the medical literature. Industry exploited this "discrepancy" and tried to discredit animal studies which showed benzene caused cancer saying that they weren't relevant to humans. Benzene has been shown to cause cancer in both sexes of multiple species of laboratory animals exposed via various routes.[20][21]

One way of understanding the carcinogenic effects of benzene is by examining the products of biological oxidation. Pure benzene, for example, oxidizes in the body to produce an epoxide, benzene oxide, which is not excreted readily and can interact with DNA to produce harmful mutations.

HOT MAMA. As soon as i get my equipment back i am going to try this reaction. Why haven't i seen this before? That is bizzare, i can't say i recall seeing this on that archive last time i saw it... It's definitely the way to go.. Thanks for posting that and bringing it to my attention. So nasty chloroacetone shit isn't even required.. well i'll be fucked... there you go huh... One tiny little question though.. Does this reaction really need to be carried out under an inert atmosphere? I Can't see how it does, what would decompose in a normal atmosphere? I mean i guess i'll just have to get a nitrogen tank and make a little chamber for it in to carry out the inert reaction. 40% Yields sound pretty yummy to me as well. Isn't phenylacetone such a nifty compound.. And who'd have thought you can make it without even using fridel-crafts and nasty HCI gas being evolved..
« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 05:27:14 AM by Ventillator »
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Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2010, 08:04:22 PM »
Alright. Since nobody has responded just yet.. I Want to say this, i am going to carry out this reaction, as soon as i get my fucking equipment back, had to get rid of it, life's a bitch without it, $1000 worth of glassware. Anyways, i am going to attempt to synthesize P2P through traditional friedel-crafts alkylation with chloroacetone and anhydrous aluminum chloride catalyst, and i am also going to attempt it through the more novel and modern free radical alkylation with manganase(III) acetate. Both reactions are sure to bring some fascinating results. When done i shall attempt to classify it all. And unify all of the knowledge regarding friedel-crafts to produce phenylacetone through all the different means and reactions. I Have sure learnt alot about friedel-crafts alkylation, it isn't just a one-way street, there are multiple avenues, which avenue you choose is up to you. All seem very simple, which they are, but i guess economics comes into play. How easy is it to manufacture manganase(III) acetate? Or maybe i'll just have to buy it. Plus i want somebody to clarify something for me here. It said the yield was 40% in the free radical reaction, but then it says that only 1.34grams of phenylacetone was recovered from 150ml benzene and 150ml of acetone. What the? That's not 40% !!!! Hmm.................
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Evilblaze

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2010, 09:59:50 PM »
Plus i want somebody to clarify something for me here. It said the yield was 40% in the free radical reaction, but then it says that only 1.34grams of phenylacetone was recovered from 150ml benzene and 150ml of acetone. What the? That's not 40% !!!! Hmm.................

The yield is based on the amount of the manganese(III) acetate and not on the amount of the acetone and benzene. Because of two moles manganese(III) acetate is needed for one mole of P2P the yield is ok. Calculate it:)

lugh

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 10:47:42 PM »
Good ventilation is mandatory for this reaction, and if you're going to synthesize chloroacetone then you'll need your clean up area well ventilated too since that's where Orgy got exposed to enough of this lachrymator to get him very sick  ;)  He used electrolysis to prepare chloroacetone using the procedure in the attached paper  8)
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Naf1

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2010, 12:17:01 AM »
The inert atmosphere is required but it states right there on the page quoted. That Helium is an alternative to argon or nitrogen, helium is very OTC just ring any party supply place and tell them you want to rent a tank of helium to fill balloons for an upcoming birthday party (then they will ask you how many bottles you need! lol)

"How easy is it to manufacture manganase(III) acetate?"

"Manganese(III) acetate can be made from any water-soluble manganese(II) salt, or from the corresponding acid soluble hydroxide (Mn(OH)2) and oxide (MnO) by precipitating it as the carbonate salt, and then boiling it in acetic acid to form manganese(II)acetate, which is finally oxidized to manganese(III)acetate by potassium permanganate. Potassium permanganate can also be used as a starting material itself, by reducing it with hexamine or formaldehyde solution. All manganese(II) salts are suceptible to oxidation to manganese(IV) by oxygen, so try to exclude air as conveniently possible from these compounds and their solutions."

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/manganous.acetate.html

So it requires going to any decent gardening supply place buying a box of cheap Manganese Sulphate used as a trace element, you would also need glacial Acetic Acid to prepare manganese(II)Acetate then potassium permanganate to prepare Mn(III)Acetate and also would need it for the P2P reaction. Getting a cheap bottle of helium from a party supply place, then the reagents above is so much more easier than preparing and working with chloroacetone, anhydrous aluminum chloride etc.

Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2010, 09:02:11 AM »
I Agree bro. Thankyou so much for your help. I Shall carry this reaction out ASAP. I Have benzene and acetone sitting right here. If only it was as simple as 'boiling' them together to get them to fuse. Too bad you need a catalyst, but it's not too bad really i suppose. I Mean it's just good luck.

As far as glacial acetic acid is concerned. You can usually purchase that for piss-pirce from food supply stores. I'll see if i can grab some and see how it goes.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 12:58:44 PM by Ventillator »
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lugh

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2010, 09:36:01 PM »
This more active version of the aluminum chloride catalyst was posted on the Hive long ago:

Preparation of Radsiwanowski AlCl3. 144% of aluminum shavings (based on wt of benzene) was added to a flask containing anhydrous benzene, and anhydrous HCl gas was pass through for 3-4 hours at ordinary temperature. The formation of AlCl3 was accompanied by the evolution of bubbles of gas, the benzene grew dark, and the shavings were covered with a deposit of AlCl3. After standing overnight, the mixture was ready for the addition of other reaction components.

 8)
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Naf1

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2010, 10:35:31 PM »
"I Have benzene and acetone sitting right here"

Be careful with that Benzene! I can only warn you so many times, if you already know what it smells like you have exposed yourself to many thousand times greater ppm than is considered safe. Spilling a small amount on yourself would constitute a significant exposure, if you are in a room and you can smell it you are exposing yourself to way beyond the safe limit of a known carcinogen (not clever).

I dont know how to stress it to you, exposure to benzene will give you cancer. Its not a possible carcinogen, it is a guaranteed 100% certainty if you expose yourself to enough of it you will get one of the nastiest types of cancer you can get blood cancer (Leukemia) or a pre-cancer that will turn into Leukemia which attacks your bone marrow and is nasty nasty shit. If you can smell benzene it means that it is at a PPM in the atmosphere that is far beyond what is considered safe by OSHA. And simply putting the lid back on the can does not magically make its presence go away, the residual benzene may persist at ppms way beyond what is safe for days after using it in the room, if not ventilated properly.

"The US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set a permissible exposure limit of 1 part of benzene per million parts of air (1 ppm) in the workplace during an 8-hour workday, 40-hour workweek. The short term exposure limit for airborne benzene is 5 ppm for 15 minutes."

At 5ppm you cannot even smell its presence, a very well ventilated room wearing a proper gas mask and gloves that go up your forearms and pay special attention to not spilling any on yourself. OSHA recommends if you are going to spend 8 hours in a room with it the concentration not go beyond 1ppm, if spending 15 minutes or less it can go to 5ppm before it is a serious health hazard. And if you can avoid blood cancer I would recommend you do so, if not now I promise you one day you will look back and wish you had heeded the advice given to you.

Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2010, 07:49:27 AM »
Haha to be quite frank i kinda lied when i said that. The only benzene i have ever seen in my life is a small distillate when i distilled NaOH and Sodium Benzoate together. I Meant ' theoretically ' have benzene sitting here. Which i do. I Have kg's of sodium benzoate and sodium hydroxide. Just need to get a god-damn distillation setup going, visit to the hardware store might not be quite a bad idea. Plumbing section. Some copper pipe pieces etc... Then you need some cooling/water pumping equipment for a distillation setup.. Through a metal-can. Thing about benzene is it's everywhere. In nature i mean. It is the backbone for almost everything.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 12:52:44 PM by Ventillator »
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Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2010, 07:06:20 PM »
On all this talk of benzene and it's carcinogenic properties. I Happen to agree with you though brother. It is nasty material. However, isn't it what you put into your car everyday? I mean doesn't benzene constitute about 5% of modern gasoline blends? Along with toluene. Maybe the gas pump is the only place i need to go to get my benzene.. Hmmm. It is everywhere. Isn't it. I'd love to see the government try and control that. Ha ha ha. Going to the gas pump for friedel-crafts precursors. :D
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Evilblaze

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2010, 07:51:19 PM »
However, isn't it what you put into your car everyday? I mean doesn't benzene constitute about 5% of modern gasoline blends?

It depends on the manufacturer, usually gasoline contains 0,2 to 6% of benzene, but I have no idea how can you get it out from that. It is not a good idea to make P2P from gasoline ;D

Actually benzene is not a really expensive chemical (at us 1 liter is around 20 euro and this is reagent grade chemical).
The home made benzene has one problem: low yields and much power needed. We made long ago benzene from benzoic acid, We had a 10-15% yield and because of the heat the glass had broken what contained the benzoate/calcium hydroxide mixture, it wasn't a really successful experiment....

There is another method from PET bottles, but we never tried it (just thinking about the insoluble tar what will remain after the PET hmmmm......).

timecube

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylatio
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2010, 02:59:32 AM »
There are a few references above to using helium from a party supply company as an inert atm, but I think it was Vesp who pointed out in another thread that the gas from there sometimes has oxygen mixed in to keep kids from suffocating on it.  So check the label before renting.

I guarantee if you work in a home lab for any length of time, you're going to be repeatedly exposed to many times the OSHA recommended levels for all kinds of nasty things, but yeah bee careful.

Glass seems to be bad for benzene production from the acid for a number of reasons.  The molten hydroxide attacks it, and the left over muck likes to stick to it and shatter it via differential thermal contraction.  So metal, metal, metal... even heat distribution.  Ordenbltiz at SM got about 1.4 L from 2.5 kg benzoate, which isn't exactly great, but benzoate is cheap.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/member_publications/benzene_production.pdf

someone else
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyw_hrXrZ8

Ventillator

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Re: Original Paper Describing The Manufacture Of P2P By Friedel-Crafts alkylation
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2010, 07:41:15 AM »
Yeah 1.4l from 2.5kg sodium benzoate isn't bad considering the cheapness of benzoates to begin with. I Think that i am going to carry out this reaction without a doubt but the bitch is obtaining that glassware. Nice big three-necked flask. I'd say the guy who performed that reaction worked at a lab supply warehouse or something to be honest. Considering that he uhh.. had all of the good bits.. So to speak. I Need to get my hands on some of that. I Have the money. Now it's about finding the god-damn supplier! So i can distill the benzene into masses of liters and carry out the god damn reaction to get my hands on some yummy and nice P2P !!!!!!

Quote
It depends on the manufacturer, usually gasoline contains 0,2 to 6% of benzene, but I have no idea how can you get it out from that. It is not a good idea to make P2P from gasoline

Haha i agree bro. I Wonder how though? Distilling it maybe? KABOOM. hehehe...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2010, 08:01:32 AM by Ventillator »
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