Author Topic: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol  (Read 398 times)

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2010, 08:36:35 PM »
If isolation of the Nickle oxide hydroxide is feesible then I love the idea of using it. I think the method using the H2O2 im attempting is far removed from this process and I will try to figure out and explore the mechanism later on. I tryed to run the experiment again as clean as I could and the results where the same.

This time I added abit of H2O2 and EtOH to a test tube and waited to see if the peroxide had any effect over an hour on the EtOH which it did not. As soon as they mixed it formed a cloudy solution which I was not expecting at all. Any theorys as to why EtOH and H2O2 form this cloudy mixture?

The undoubtly acidic Ni+Cu chloride solution was dripped via pippett into the solution and right away fine bubbles began being formed. When heated they increased in pace and fineness forming what looked like smoke almost in the liquid. I capped it off with my finger and allowed it to build pressure and attempted to light it. Nothing happened so its not H2 evolving. The splint test or O2 also proved negative so the only assumption I could make was that these bubbles are just acetaldahyde forming and exiting the solution.

Im going to run some more test notibly with Ethylene glycol to see if I can perform a reductive amination to EthyleneDiamine from the formed dialdahyde. I also want to test its ability to form acetone from Isopropyl alcohol to test its capabilitys with secondary alcohols.

Since am pretty sure we are discussing different mechanics here when I get all my ducks in a row I will start a new thread on the use of this VERY over the counter oxidizing agent for Primary alcohols. I have a feelin that like the NaOCl process the Oxygen from the H2O2 is being mediated to the substrate thru the Nickle salt in a simular fashion. It appears to work so well so far I can't wait to get yields on it.

[EDIT]

Well this experiment will be delayed a bit since I have just figured out how to purify the nickle from coins and remove all the added copper. Once I recover my pure nicklechloride I will be on th path of reproducng your experimnts and trying some of the H2O2 ones using pure Nickle chlorides as the starting material.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 01:52:16 AM by Sedit »
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 01:11:23 PM »
Remember, your mix has a bunch of different oxidizers. Hydrogen peroxide and free chlorine, copper and nickel salts and/or oxides... lots of stuff there for an alchemist to be interested in ;)

You might also want to take a look at the formation of nickel peroxide by nickel sulfate and bleach. Hudlickey's book says good things about it. I'll ask java for the ref.

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 01:24:41 PM »
One of the Nickle peroxide patents is what gave me the idea on how to seperate the Ni from the Cu in my mixture using Ammonia hydroxide to precipitate the NiO. Figured Cu will stay as a complex and it did just that so now I have "clean" NiO to work with. The patent I seen also stated using persulfates to form the NiO2 and to top it all off I see alot of room for this to become an electrochemical oxidation method.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 02:20:37 PM »
If you are thinking electric, why do any salt formation at all? One should be able to pass current through a basic solution with a nickel anode and stainless steel cathode. A battery charger, some change and a stainless steel pot filled with your basic alcohol mix should be proof of concept :) I asked for a ref for this but it is from the Synthesis journal which seems to be not one of the available journals for java.

You also might want to check out the high temp (~300C) vapor phase cat oxidations.

In case anyone else is/was battling with that Hudlickey Oxidation book that some nice person uploaded somewhere here, the beginning of the book is at the end, so the preface and table of contents are there, just in the 400s.

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 03:21:52 PM »
Kind of along the same line of thought. A sulfate salt in the anode cell along with H2SO4 can generate persulfate and NiO2 in the pot was my line of thinking. Some Ni salts should be there as well for good measure I feel.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

madprossor

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2010, 04:42:38 AM »
hi Disposable Stirbar i'm glad to see someone use the reference i requested.  (i thought it looked good!)

below is a list of systems for oxidation to carboxylic acids. most of these were retrieved by Java in the references thread-

tcca/tempo, bleach/tempo, OxyNitroxS100/bleach, NiAc/bleach, NiCl2/bleach, Ag2O/NH4OH, Ag2O/CuO/O2, H2O2/quaternary ammonium salt, H2O2/Pd(tfa)2, H2O2/Pd(OAc)2, oxone/DMF, Ca(OCl)2/acetonitrile/acetic acid, H2O2/HCl/NH2OH.HCl/acetonitrile, periodate/catalytic dichromate/sulfuric, sodium chlorite/sulfamic acid, PCC.

i'm sure there are others also.

can you provide a reference or procedure for the "reverse addition" you did by dichromate/h2so4 dripped into phenylethanol?  i had low yields and dirty product most of which did not crystallize when making a hydrocinnamic acid from a hydrocinnamaldehyde.  but i was unaware of a reverse addition method at that time.

is the NiCl2/bleach system working for you at all?  what is your yield, temperature, and reaction time?

thank y'all for the more detailed PDF.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 04:44:56 AM by madprossor »

madprossor

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 12:34:51 AM »
ah shit, some of the systems i mentioned are not suitable for your substrate because i was searching for aldehyde -> carboxylic acid.

in particular the oxone/DMF method will not work on alcohols.  i also found an iron catalyst + O2 method, and a NaOH/KOH caustic fusion at 185C method but neither were documented to work on alcohols.

here is a reference for some methods which should work (many were mentioned already by Chemchem thx).

http://www.organic-chemistry.org/synthesis/C2O/ketones/oxidationsalcohols.shtm

i see in the other phenylethanol thread you say to drip the phenylethanol in acetone into refluxing h2so4/dichromate.  is an excess of dichromate or h2so4 used?  what is the length of the reaction?  what is the esther you mention having to hydrolyze?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 01:18:03 AM by madprossor »

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 01:10:35 AM »
I haven't got back to the bleach NiCL2 oxidation. I will beat that horse again.

As for the oxidation with dichromate, it might even be in Vogel's, but perhaps they were distilling off the formed aldehyde, modify for your target(reflux). The big thing is you just want less chance for ester formation, so more dilute is better with slower addition.

The next time I am digging through the oxidation stuff I have and come across it, I will post where it is.

EDIT-> hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxidation_of_primary_alcohols_to_carboxylic_acids
under Jone's Oxidation,
"This classical protocol, involving a direct addition, is used very often regardless of the fact that it frequently leads to the formation of substantial amounts of esters — possessing the structure R-CO-O-CH2-R — derived from oxidative dimerization of primary alcohols. Holland and Gilman[6]  proved that this side reaction can be greatly suppressed by following the inverse addition protocol whereby a solution of the primary alcohol in acetone is slowly added to Jones reagent under conditions as dilute as practical."
6 Holland, B.C.; Gilman, N.W. (1974). "An Improved Procedure for the Oxidation of Alkynols to Alkynoic Acids". Synth. Commun.  4: 203. doi:10.1080/00397917408062073
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 01:31:34 AM by disposable stirbar »

madprossor

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 01:21:06 AM »
is this esther formed only when oxidizing an alcohol, not when oxidizing an aldehyde?  (or am i confused about what esther you encounter.)

Locked

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: NiCL2 NaOCl oxidation of primary alcohol
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2010, 01:38:55 AM »
Yes, I was not starting with an aldehyde, so the formed carb acid can do the ester ugly with the starting alcohol.

Your reactants should have worked a treat.