Author Topic: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?  (Read 207 times)

timecube

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Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« on: February 21, 2010, 10:14:29 PM »
What kind of evidence is generally used to convict someone of either a manufacturing or conspiracy to manufacture charge?

Clearly if they break in and you have a house full of glassware and chemicals with a reflux currently going on and you sleeping beside of it, they will probably have an easier time, but what if everything was made up before hand and the lab since long gone?

Do they contact credit card and shipping companies to try to figure out what you've been ordering?  Even if they go to all that trouble it doesn't really prove anything.  You might have flushed them as soon as they came in.  You might have been writing an investigative piece on how readily available drug precursors are.  You probably planned to make drugs, but it's hardly proof.

I know they can take samples from certain absorbent materials to find traces of chemicals, but that proves possession of miniscule amounts of the chemicals found, not what you were doing with them.

I'm just wondering what kind of evidence is needed to make a case if they don't find an active lab with your fingerprints all over everything.

shroomedalice

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 10:22:12 PM »
ive been done a few times :)

they check every thing only saviour is total synthesis
and OTC.

then timing and keeping clean.

never a conviction.

fuck em fuck em all

the fuckers when they cant catch ya want ya to work for them fuck I hate them

come into mates labs ask is the shit on the table the mate points at the shit they take it and leave.

Naf1

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 10:24:36 PM »
Forensic Investigation of Clandestine Laboratories
Donnell. R. Christian Jr

Clandestine lab operators are not the mad scientists whose genius keeps them pent up in the laboratory contemplating elaborate formulas and mixing exotic chemicals. In fact, their equipment is usually simple, their chemicals household products, and their education basic. Most of the time the elements at the scene are perfectly legal to sell and own. It is only in the combination of all these elements that the lab becomes the scene of a criminal operation. Forensic Investigation of Clandestine Laboratories guides you, step-by-step, through the process of recognizing these illegal manufacturing operations. Then it shows you how to prove it in the courtroom. In non-technical language this book details:How to recognize a clandestine labHow to process the site of a clandestine labHow to analyze evidence in the examination laboratory What to derive from the physical evidenceHow to present the evidence in courtThe identification and investigation a clandestine lab, and the successful prosecution the perpetrators, is a team effort. A collaboration of law enforcement, forensic experts, scientists, and criminal prosecutors is required to present a case that definitively demonstrates how a group of items with legitimate uses are being used to manufacture an illegal controlled substance. Forensic Investigation of Clandestine Laboratories provides you with the information needed to understand how the different pieces of the clandestine lab puzzle fit together and take the steps to not only identify and shut down these operations, but also successfully prosecute the perpetrators.

DOWNLOAD
Right click and 'save target as' to save the file directly to your hardisk, or click the link and wait for the PDF to appear and save that.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:26:41 PM by Naf1 »

timecube

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 10:58:30 PM »
Thank you guys, I'll be sure to read that book.

I was wondering mostly about having to order OTC products online when necessary and choosing relatively obscure synthesis routes so that none of the precursors are suspicious even together.
It seems that a lot could be said for having 3rd parties who would never be suspected order most things when needed.

Obviously getting everything in person with cash is much better, but not always an option.

Thanks again, I'm just trying to look at overall optimal risk mitigation.

shroomedalice

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 01:02:01 AM »
thanx for that one naf :)

Locked

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 02:22:45 AM »
Listen to this good, because I wish someone would have told me this a long time ago.

If you are asking these questions, take some of your dope money, sniff out a recommended lawyer and put that law dog on retainer. If you can afford it, put 50k with the dick because that is what you will burn through if shit gets ugly and you want to go to court.

The cooking is not the hardest part.

TooCold

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2010, 05:46:16 AM »
Anyone with a lab in their residence is  assumed to be making drugs or a terrorist. Even if they legitimately are neither.  So you are going to be arrested no matter what. If you have a good lawyer with trial experience you may be acquitted. It all depends though. If it is a meth lab and you are extracting pse from otc tabs the jury will understand that easily. However, if there are no direct precursors found and you were doing something like catechol to MDMA. The prosecution is going to have to hire a chemist to be an expert witness and explain it to the jury. You can obviously hire your own expert. Since an expert witness costs the prosecution money or sending their own chemists to testify at a trial wastes their time. You are probably in a better position for a plea bargain. If you do go trial it you have a much better chance if it is a total synth case. But no matter what you are better off avoiding LEO in the first place.

Check out JJ Luna's "How to be invisible"

Vesp

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 05:55:39 AM »
Where is JJ Luna's "How to be invisible"? online? Is there a PDF of it floating about?
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

lugh

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2010, 12:56:42 PM »
Both editions are available:

h**p://ifile.it/m6q20iz

h**p://ifile.it/i2v1mtw

 8)

Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

timecube

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 10:03:59 PM »
Thanks some more and I'll read that too.  The first book and a lot of the responses have been based around discovering a lab and going from there.

I'm wondering about if the lab isnt even there anymore, under what kinds of circumstances they would subpoena ups for delivery histories and the like.  It seems like a stretch that they may bother bc its a lot of time and effort on their part without
much probable cause, but I definitely wouldnt want to rule something like that out.

drone1240

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2010, 01:33:07 AM »
Timecube this is reply #1 from wetdreams.ws thread getting busted. https://www.wetdreams.ws/forum/index.php?topic=19942.0

Go to it and down load the Alba Forrester indictment. Its 96 pages long and if you haven't read it it will blow your fucking mind. In it is also Hobart Huson aka Strike Hive bee #1.look at how many ways they watched them... video, GPS, email, phone records, email records, international surveillance to Sweden, breaking in to plant bugs, mirrored their computers, installed physical keyloggers... they went all out on this investigation with every bit of technology available, and this was in 2000-2002.

I copied that last part from the thread but it is a must read. Shortly after reading it i saw his "strike's" debut on dateline via you tube "X files" and was almost sick. It is amazing to put a name to face after so long I mean I never pictured strike having a face or a name ya dig he was just a ghost in the ether like elusis or rhodium.
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....

Baba_McKensey

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Re: Evidence needed to make a manufacturing charge stick?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2010, 12:40:38 PM »
I always spell the classical transmitting medium of light "aether" to avoid confussion with the chemical.  The word aether was borrowed from the ancient Greek philosophers who believed it existed for a number of reasons, one was that nature abhored a vacuum.

http://politechbot.com/docs/forrester.alba.dea.key.logger.070907.pdf



http://politechbot.com/docs/forrester.alba.dea.investigation.report.070907.pdf

http://docketsinfo.dot.gov/reports/rspa/2003-01/020317.pdf
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 06:20:20 PM by Baba_McKensey »