Author Topic: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems  (Read 134 times)

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Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« on: March 16, 2010, 08:31:46 AM »
I want to be able to do perfect cactus apical meristem grafts.

I am looking for a mini version of a tree spade tree transplanter. It cuts a hole then cuts out a tree in exactly the same shape to fit it.
hxxp://www.big-john.com/

I want the mini version of that. Perhaps there is a biopsy tool like this? Some sort of tissue sampling device? I have been looking online but I don't know what the thing would be called. All I have been finding are core punch type sampling tools.

Thanks

Vesp

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 10:19:09 PM »
Not to sure I understand exactly what you are saying, Why are you not just able to cut the cacti in half, and align it or allow it to grow roots?
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 05:49:28 AM »
The apical meristem is the growing wad of cells in the tip of a cactus. Of course one could do a normal "beheading" graft, but to have a way to cut out a hole from the tip of your, just for example, san pedro cactus, then put in that hole a perfectly matching bit from a peyote, you would have a peyote graft on a san pedro but the big winner would be the original donor peyote would then grow a new pile of graftable pups from the many available areoles and do so much more quickly then a headless peyote since the majority of the plant would still be there. You would have to be careful about water in the hole but anyone who has peyote growing on its own roots is careful anyway.

Or with the same device one could take a few year old peyote and graft a number of the areoles each to a different san pedro tip. One plant becomes 10 to 20 in one operation.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 06:08:18 AM »
I see! Thanks for the clarification.
What do you think of this? I think it would be difficult to do (though, I have never had experience with it) but damn is it clever!

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3255355/page/1

Just imagine how many graphs you could get out of that one slow growing cactus, eh?

Also -- have you looked into the perskopskis or whatever the hell those things are called? It is one of the fastest growing cacti, and can help really build the size of a slower growing cactus.
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 02:05:55 PM »
Holy hell, I did not see that! That is what I'm talking about exactly for the areole graft. 4mm hole punch is much more crude then the surgical tubular biopsy sampling tools I was thinking about. But notice the "moving the tool at an angle cut/broke out the tissue sample." then he has to cut the bottom again to prepare it for union. If a pyramid chunk cutter exists it would remove the extra handling and make the whole operation faster with less exposure to pathogens. The other bit that I was typing about is that instead of beheading the stock(bottom cactus) one could just remove the inside tip and replace it with another cactus tip, or areole for a much less invasive procedure.

Even with the tubular cutter, he should have done this,
http://www.cactus-art.biz/technics/Grafting_on_opuntia_compressa_step_by_step.htm
Much easier with tiny scions(from net resources. This will be tried very soon).

That is awesome, though, thanks. I don't know why dude stopped with doing only one, unless it was the test. Hell, even for the test I would have done 2/3s of the areoles. I'm not one for advancing slowly ;)

EDIT-> Yeah, I can't find that cactus with leaves locally. I have looked. They are getting 5+ years of natural on its own root peyote growth in one season with that, and that isn't counting the tons of pups produced. All the good stocks speed growth and pupping, but not like that one!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 02:14:41 PM by disposable stirbar »

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 07:02:41 AM »
Today was a very sad day in cactus land. Two gift cactus, both over 5years old, were readied for grafting along with their new stocks. First stock was prepared, first scion cut, first bit of rot discovered. Normal graft turned into partial rib grafting to stock. Not a disaster but now what to do with the other bits that are quickly shriveling their life away?
Disposable stirbar bolts out the door to chop pieces of a prickly pear cactus growing a couple streets over. Guess what house has a 100yr old angry vinegar filled woman with nothing better to do all day but watch her prickly pear cactus? Yeah, no joke, I had spent all of 20 seconds on her yard and cut two new small pads as granny comes out the door shouting at me. At least she wasn't shooting. After explaining that I wasn't vandalizing her plant for fun and was actually going to make more plants she then offered me a whole side of it. Thanks Gram, but I only want a few new pads.
Returning to the batch cave, I perform rib grafts with the good tissue.
I proceed to old small slow growing cactus number 2. I notice this one before the cut. Very hard to see but on two ribs there was soft tan creeping up to the lowest areole. Both planted too deep or winter was too humid. Fuck these things are sensitive out of their element. All the more reason to graft everything when you don't live in the desert. Anyway, it had lots of good tissue so only the bad parts were removed and a normal graft made. This was padded and taped down. I then bump it and it slides. I don't know what I tried to do to save it but I ended up impaling myself and the scion on spines. I was then forced to remove additional tissue an re-graft.
If the partial rib grafts onto prickly pear work out, it is the only way to go. Not only does one cactus make many grafts but it is amazingly simple.
We shall see how they look in 2 weeks.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 10:20:02 PM »
Ah best of luck! I've never grafted a cactus, but hopefully this summer I will get to do so. I wonder, is there a substance that allows for them to join together better -- such as some hormone, etc? I fear I could not get them to connect well, and lead to infections, etc.
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 02:53:06 AM »
I actually have a bit of sterile culture technique practice. I have also have been reading about how the tissue culture propagation people prep their samples. I have not gone to their lengths but I certainly do a good job of surgery prep on the surfaces to be cut which I have never seen written online but only makes sense. Why go to all the trouble of having sterile(or close) glove hands and knife if you are going to cut through dirty skin?

That hole punch areole graft page has given me all sorts of bad ideas! I am going to turn another old cactus into 30, or try at least. If I even get a 50% success I still win big. Hell, the earth wins!

I am going to go on a prickly pear scouting mission and plan my heists, er, grafting stock collection. Did you check out the prickly pear grafting pages? That with biopsy cutter areole grafts is bound to work like a champ.

Oh, one more thing, use superglue. All those sites that recommend against it are ignorant of the facts. It works. Do some grafts side by side, with and without and see. First, press the two together and drip super glue to the edge. It will run around the union. Give it a bit to dry, then put a bunch more on the cut edges to seal them. Give it a few minutes then put your padding and compressive force on. I tried just putting a tile on top with one here and it seems to be perfect, so screw electrical tape from now on.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 04:17:11 AM »
Yeah, turning one cacti into 30 or more would be quite the trick! I can't even begin to imagine how many san pedro cacti one could get growing from a 12 inch long one. Easily more then you'd have the ability to deal with.
If you do this and succeed I would die to see pics and a nice write up of it -- I think I have only seen this technique once, and it really seems like it could lead to good things, and make cacti much more common. :D
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 01:37:41 AM »
Vesp, san pedro is fast growing! I use it's close relative bridgesii for my stocks. In desert places where it doesn't freeze much people in older neighborhoods sometimes have huge san pedros. Huge like 10+ft across. A little night stealth ninja assault action could net one enough mescaline for a long time from only an arm or two.

If you have it growing just chop the top off and root it properly while the stock branches from below the cut. Be brutal. It is easy to make lots of those cactus from one.

I counted today and 20 areoles could come from the one old plant easy, not quite 30 without getting into the center. Prickly pear are more or less easy to gather. Looks like a go! For areole grafts on prickly pear you don't need a different pad for each one. 3 or more each depending on the size of the pad.

Now to score a 4mm punch. I guess I could buy one from a piercing place.

From the really rotten plant I have 7 partial rib grafts, 6 on prickly pear like from that website I linked and one on T. bridgesii. The other is a mostly intact whole scion on another bridgesii. I can see the prickly pear grafts but am quite excited for the April 2 unveiling of the 2 bridgesii grafts.

T. bridgesii was what was available cheap when I went looking for the pachanoi, peruvianas, bridgesii types. It has been written that they are the same plant from different spine length groups. My only pref would be for the small spines of the san pedro. The others are pretty stabby.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 01:48:29 AM »
I'm trying to root one plant, but I'm a bit worried about it. How long should it take to root the cacti? Its like a san pedro or something real similiar.
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 03:56:41 AM »
First things first, did you let the cut dry out before putting it in dirt? If you lay them on their sides to dry, keep turning them. I like standing them up on paper towels after only a day or two. Who wants banana cactus?

Also, is it warm enough where you are at? When it is cold cactus don't do anything.

If it is one of the easy cactus like san pedro or blue myrtle, stop worrying. Have you ever seen how shriveled up a cactus can get and still bounce back? If the conditions are in any way acceptable and the bottom isn't rotting then it will root when it roots. Don't leave it in water and don't keep knocking the dirt off to check if there are roots or not.

Less is more with cactus care.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 04:17:59 AM »
I let it dry out for a while, and then I have set it between two sticks, holding it upwards on some strained dry soil. I guess it should do fairly well as it is one of those easy cacti.
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 02:49:11 PM »
If it is dry then put it into the dirt, not just on it. Areoles are where everything happens.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 10:47:32 PM »
It is in there a bit, I'll add more soil just to make sure, as it isn't in there all that much.. Thanks!
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 05:10:14 PM »
As was already known, T. bridgesii is a grafting champion. One week out and the old slow growing trippy cactus rib graft and the other mostly intact graft look great. With the rib graft it was impossible(for me) to tell where the vascular tissue was so I just guessed at the line crossing the circle 2 points of contact graft. It seems to have worked beautifully. A safer bet would have been to go for the 1 point cross, but whatever. It is still early and there is lots of time for these to die/rot/whatever but I would bet they are great.

The prickly pear grafts look terrible. My rib graft alignment could(should) have been at a greater angle. I'm not sure if the vascular tissue lines are touching. Only one looks even halfway ok. It is also very obvious that they should have gone into high humidity which I normally try to avoid because of pathogens. The prickly pear graft will be tried again! I just need a couple of the always flowering PP grafts to take with different tissue for seed production.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2010, 04:22:49 AM »
I just recently took a small little jab at a cactus, using the metal part of a pencil to  extract the core, and I've put it into this other cactus thing that seems to root faster and have little apical dominance (due to the sides, the bottom, of the cactus growing out tons of other little cacti) and I am hoping it will grow on... I highly doubt it will as this is already iffy and this is my first time -- but boy if it does it sure will be exciting! Is there any type of rule on what cacti can graft to one another -- or can any cacti connect to any other cacti as long as you get it lined up properly?

The one I connected it to is a Cereus tetragonis of some sort --- a very small part of it.

Edit: A day later and it looks like it is just going to dry out and die, however I guess I can't be totally sure.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 08:36:03 PM by Vesp »
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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2010, 01:57:12 AM »
I am the wrong one to be asking about rules :)

If you are doing surgery on anything, plant or otherwise, and you want it to live, make it clean, go quick but sure and take care after. I actually really dont do shit for aftercare, but some people have long routines of slowly re acclimating to outside conditions.

I think the pre cleaning is very important. I lay the cactus on their sides and spray them with bleach water while rolling, give it a min, then wash with bottled water. If I had BAC piercing solution I would probably use that but I dont. You dont need to go as crazy as the tissue culture guys do, but to not do anything seems stupid. Clean knife through dirty flesh?

I have grafted plants in the dark with compression(and superglue!) for a week or so(whenever I remember), then to the shade for a week or so without the tape and then back into the sun. I have sunburned pe to the yote before, so dont think I am some master at this.

But from my ever increasing experience... My next round will be beheading, graft the bottom upside down on a tric, graft the core of the top slice(apical meristem) on top another tric, then cut the ribs and graft them individually. I really am so impressed with how well the rib graft has done I cant believe it. I might even try that areole grafting but with a biopsy cutter.

Super glue the edges and exposed cuts of all grafts! It really fucks the fuzzy areoles up(looks terrible) so be careful with that and glueing yourself. Dont worry if your papertowel pad bonds itself into the cactus. Just remove what comes off easy and leave the rest.

Pretty much exactly this with cleaning first and superglue after you have smushed the two sides together.
hxxp://www.kadasgarden.com/grafting2.html
but I wrap e tape all the way around the bottom of the pot,because my stock cactus has evil spines.

It has now been a few weeks and the mostly complete top scion(with rot removed) has plumped and looks great, except for the round two of rot removal. If you have a cactus that you are cutting rot out of, chop everything that even seems even the slightest bit off and clean the knife after every slice. Better in this case to cut a little too much then not get it all. It sucks...

The other rib graft Plumped right away. I would guess any day here, perhaps a week at most and one of the areoles will go all pimple style then rupture with a whole new pup. I can't wait!

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2010, 06:58:46 PM »
The rib graft still hasn't pupped. The way the cut surface looks is because paper towel bonded itself to it. No matter. It is a successful graft and that is the important part. Anyone who knows about these sloooooow bastards knows that everything is a waiting game...

Now for the good part. The mostly complete graft has shown an incredible growth rate. It is going at about 1 month = 1-2years normal growth rate. Holy effing awesome. The long fur areoles touched when I grafted, obscuring the center. It is splitting a bit on the edges where the infected tissue was removed. The callous is not elastic. You can see from the color how it has swelled.

Stay tuned for areole grafting and another try at grafting to prickly pear.

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Re: Device for grafting cactus apical meristems
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2010, 05:05:51 AM »
That middle one is on about a 10" section. It is the one that I had to remove the rot. Twice. Sorry if it wasn't clear. I don't have a pic of it that shows the stock but doesn't show too much of the batch cave.

The bottom one is on its own root. Not for long! I might try putting one areole on the root when I chop its head off.

If you have ever thought that you might want to grow these, do it. Rewarding even without harvest, perhaps more so.