Author Topic: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds  (Read 307 times)

Enkidu

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Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« on: May 04, 2010, 08:42:56 PM »
Anyone have any websites, forum, or books worth reading? I'll start... I don't know how 'good' this book is, but it's a start anyway.

SolarN

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2010, 11:22:29 PM »
Here's a forum with rather active members who discuss offshore banking for HYIPs (High Yield Investment Programs aka Ponzi schemes). You'll pickup some good info/tips. It'll keep you reading for hours. The other forums on the same site are interesting as well. Good topic, btw and thanks for the ebook up.

SolarN

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2010, 11:24:43 PM »

timecube

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 01:22:12 AM »
I know that here are some law firms based in tax haven countries that will help you set up this sort of thing.  Basically the firm sets up a company in a country like Guatemala that doesn't require the registrants or directors to be on file (essentially an anonymous company) and registers a bank account in that company's name.  Tax haven countries tend to have very strict privacy laws and no mutual legal assistance treaties with the U.S. (so they don't recognize U.S. tax evasion as a crime in their country.)

If the veil of privacy is pierced by some means, the bank account is registered to an anonymous company.  Transfers between your personal accounts and the offshore account are generally done through an intermediary account at the law firm.  If by some means the account is eventually traced back to them, they can't be made to give up who they're doing the transfers for due to strict attorney client privilege regulations generally present in such countries.

Certain activities can't be hidden this way, a lot of countries do have exceptions in cases of particularly egregious things like kidnapping, child porn rings, etc. but if you're just evading taxes or violating a few drug laws you will likely be protected fairly well.

Of course you would have to get some reviews and see which firms are trustworthy and get more information from them, I just know this is generally how a lot of these kinds of things are set up.  If you can find some serious credit card fraud / id theft forums and irc rooms, those people know how to move and hide money.

Other ideas would include routing money around through anonymous banking means like eGold, Liberty Reserve (a fav. among ID thieves), etc.

rhodopsin

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2010, 12:57:22 AM »
i'd skip liberty reserve and perhaps look into webmoney, pecunix, and perhaps hoopay.
there are new technologies all the time that are very interesting, keep up with agorist friends.

probably good to keep multiple small accounts.

jon

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 02:43:08 AM »
you could just shove it up your ass when the taxman comes ask him how bad does he want your money?

jon

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2010, 07:37:44 PM »
even better banco de panama!!!

Eternal

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 03:22:16 AM »
Too bad I'm about 6 months late on this, but I will comment anyway.

Basically the firm sets up a company in a country like Guatemala that doesn't require the registrants or directors to be on file (essentially an anonymous company) and registers a bank account in that company's name.  Tax haven countries tend to have very strict privacy laws and no mutual legal assistance treaties with the U.S. (so they don't recognize U.S. tax evasion as a crime in their country.)
It is true that Guatemala has no US-MLAT and is generally good for banking in secrecy and has as anonymous-as-they-come corporations, it is not that great of a jurisdiction just because communication is poor and their banks are questionable. Most other "tax haven" countries, none of this is true for anymore, although some have good banks.

If the veil of privacy is pierced by some means, the bank account is registered to an anonymous company.
The bank account has a signer that is a natural person who's ID has been verified and copied by the bank or it will not be opened. This is true of any bank.

That panamalaw.org site (now a 'Guatemala law firm') is a scam. There are many complaints on them, although the information on their site is good. That is how they suck you in. They also promote whatever they can make money off of in a big way. Previously they had information on how Hong Kong was a horrible destination for banking (because they wanted you to buy a Panama bank account introduction from them so they made pages about how all other jurisdictions were terrible and only Panama was good), and now they offer Hong Kong bank accounts with a Hong Kong corporation and took down the page talking shit about Hong Kong. This all despite the fact that Hong Kong has only since become a worse destination for banking in privacy. They have a US-MLAT and it covers ALL tax matters. Civil and criminal. Money laundering as well, but I hope you knew that. Panama has a US-MLAT as well, it just excludes tax matters. Money laundering is covered.

Panama is an OK place, although expensive and a headache to set up an account there, but it has gotten less secrecy bound just this year. As with any place these days really, don't expect to hide drug proceeds. It gets done and can be done anywhere (most ML happens in the USA). But if a government comes calling, waving around the drug money laundering investigation flag, the bank usually says "right this way, sir" as they crack open your account and all it hides for the investigators to see and seize.

It really depends on what you want to do when you decide how you are going to "launder" the money. You want to buy a car? Why not buy with cash from a private party? Then you do not have to deal with laundry. A house? Want to pay off your mortgage? Good luck. You're going to have to explain how you got the funds. Moving the money around or putting it in a bank account is not a big problem, and fairly easily solved although not exactly cheap. Having a solid story and proof to back it up is NOT EASY to accomplish. The wire to buy your house is coming from an account in another country? Expect an audit from the IRS. They will want to know where this money came from, as will the form that the bank handling the sale of the house will demand to know. There are ways to wash cash, but not many of them could withstand an real investigation. Forget about going to a casino and buying chips with cash and then cashing out for a casino issued check. That does not work anymore. It can be done in other countries still (not Western Europe, think second and third world).

Carders have some practical ideas on moving money around, but not good ideas imo on where to hide it and not on laundering it, unless you run an online business through which to launder it. Then they do well, but anyone could. You don't have to be a carder to move your fraud derived e-currency around and eventually into your own business e-currency account -> cashout. It is probably a good practical way to do it, but I think I would just keep the tax man out of it and save myself the possible money laundering charges that come with being on the up and up with the tax man. Straight to cash. Buy some gold / silver. Dig a hole in the ground.

Liberty Reserve is still OK, but some things they do scare me like recently blocking logins from tor exit nodes.

Pecunix is great.

WebMoney is only alright if you want to go through a boatload of bullshit to set up your account pseudononymously. The carders are crazy and lazy.

Hoopay is pretty much crap. There are rumors now of them messing with accounts too. I will never use them.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 05:19:29 AM by Eternal »

timecube

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 09:05:44 AM »
I figured as much about Panama Law being a scam, but still posted the information they provided as a decent bit checked out with other sources.

The problem I see with most of the e-currencies is that you still have central sources holding your assets and conducting the transactions (unless you bounce around through exchange networks, and then liquidity often becomes an issue.)  There were quite a few busts stemming from eGold's transaction logging a few years back.  I know some newer currencies are attempting to adhere more to models like Open Transactions that are designed to make transfers completely untraceable, but that still leaves the concern about an anonymous entity holding some portion of your assets for a length of time.  The idea that your currency is backed by gold is meaningless when you have no clue where it is held or who has it, or any legal means of claiming your share in the event of a collapse, so you still ultimately end up with fiat currency backed by only your trust in the issuer.  At least bitcoin tries to come up with a way to solve the centralization issue, but you still end up with the problem that your currency is only worth what people are willing to pay for it (which is true of anything of value, but significantly more people make markets in ie. gold, oil, USD, JPY, etc.  eCache's total reserves would fit in my pocket.)

Even if you're starting with cash (from drug sales, etc.) (or, rather, once you get to cash if your source of income is from some sort of online scheming) you're still going to have to eventually legitimize it somehow unless you plan to spend every bit of it up front, which also has a tendency to bring about unwanted attention.  There is no point in accumulating wealth if you don't have some means to invest and grow it and use it how you want.  Unless you're just some hood thug that thinks pouring every bit of your earnings into pimping out your Cadillac while continuing to live in public housing is a good way to live, you're going to eventually probably have to launder it the old fashioned way.  Get a good lawyer and tax accountant, take out a loan and start a service business or two.  You will be paying taxes and spending an awful lot of time and effort trumping up fake sales entries in the beginning, but you will eventually be able to access your money and do what you want with it.  The ultimate goal is to basically use illegal income to finance legal businesses until they can become successful on their own, then the public question of where did so and so get so much money is answered with well he started this and that.  Name any well-known wealthy family and most got their start being involved in some pretty shady shit.. the Kennedys were bootleggers (1920s meth cooks), the Clintons were tied in with Mexican drug gangs with a few illegal land deals thrown in for good measure, and so on.

I have to imagine though that most of this won't honestly be an issue for too many people here.  It's not that I don't think most members here are capable of running multi-million dollar industrial drug labs (many certainly are and a few possibly have,) it's just that statistically most won't.  And anything under 100K total is never going to get looked at twice for the most part.  You can turn cash into cashier's checks and buy cars at most local dealerships without any sort of problems (I personally know people who have paid 20-30k..  dealers want your money.  They can't take cash so they'll tell you to go get a cashier's check (or several.))  Unless you have the nosiest bank in the world, most aren't going to care about you slowly moving in money, especially if it's wired in through online payment processors or other bank accounts.. you can move tens of thousands in over reasonably short periods of time.

Getting cash in is still a problem, but surely you know some people who will pay you online or by check in exchange for cash from time to time.  The bank has no way of knowing what's income, what's you just moving your own money around or getting paid back on loans to friends etc. and for the most part they don't care.  Millions of people every day are wiring legitimate money from savings to checking to investment accounts and they just can't keep track of all of that.  Unless they are required by law to report something specific (like serialized cash deposits) or you're being so obvious that they can't help but notice and don't want charges of gross neglect raining down on them in the future, most banks aren't going to go out of their way to report something they don't have to unless they think you're somehow screwing them over (ie. wiring over a certain amount out of an account will set off internal fraud alerts based on your transfer history.)

Once you've had money in the banking system for a few years, it's basically yours and no one's ever going to ask you where it came from (unless you eventually face a full formal IRS audit, but those are very rare and generally focus on the huge cases, corporate and high dollar evasion allegations.. they only have so many resources and unless you're just going out of your way to draw their attention to you, the most you're going to hear from the audit department are adjustment letters when you make math errors on your annual return.  Keep in mind they will take a special interest in businesses if you start trying to deduct lots of personal expenses through them.. again, having a good tax accountant helps here.)

That's all a rambling mess with more asides than a Norm MacDonald bit, but I think it covers a lot of decent points.  Large amounts of cash are often legitimized by creating new things with it that can be sold for more usable forms of payment.  The Russian mob has been known to pay contractors in cash to build apartment complexes and hotels, then turn around and sell them.  When you create something new (a property, business, etc.) you're often able to avoid the standard inquiries into how you initially were able to buy something.  It's all pretty much the same model, you pay for lots of smaller expenses in cash to eventually create something large that can be sold for legitimate income.  With a small building you pay the architect, the contractor (or build yourself a house,) the lumber yard, the drywall place, the hardware store, etc.  A few thousand in cash here and there.. you're never dumping a big wad of it on anybody.  You might have to buy the land legitimately, but so what if you sell it afterward you'll get your originally legitimate money back out plus a lot more.  If you have a steady real job, or own a string of successful businesses ;), you can probably just take a loan out to buy a house and pay the monthly mortgage with money orders (again, you're using an intermediary asset to pool lots of smaller payments together, and you can absolutely pay off mortgages with money orders.. a member of my family was so bad at managing money that she couldn't keep a checking account balanced, so she just closed it and started paying all of her bills including her mortgage with money orders.)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 09:12:48 AM by timecube »

timecube

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 08:42:41 PM »
There's obviously a lot of speculation in the posts above, but on a related note I have been working some on a way to implement an effective Ripple-style monetary system through a network like Tor.

Tor is a trust network, but it's an implicit kind of trust rather than explicit.  It's not that I really trust the peers I'm connected to, I don't know them at all, but I know that I can trust sending data through them because the encryption makes it impossible for them to take advantage of me.

Users would still have to trust centralized payment facilitators, but they wouldn't all have to trust the same one.  The system effectively works as a universal exchanger.  Say I'm A and I trust "Blind Payments 1", a payment processor based on the Open Transactions model that allows blinded transfers, and I want to pay D who only accepts payments from "Blind Payments 2."

A Rip/Tor sort of chain could be established where my token gets sent through a few intermediary nodes to hide the IP of who's sending it, then eventually to someone who trusts both payment providers, then from him to the recipient in the form that the recipient wants.  Since the processor servers are designed to be used with the network, various means of escrow could be implemented to make sure no user can rip off another, no processor can rip off another, etc. and the payment makes it to the recipient without him knowing who sent it.

Tor's ability to use rendezvous points could also be leveraged to where I don't know where I'm sending the payment and he doesn't know where it came from.  Of course, I would have to trust that recipient, but we're assuming there is some reason why I would if I'm paying him in the first place, or more advanced forms of transactions as specified in Open Transactions could be used to enact conditional payments and other mechanisms.

The primary advantage over blinded payment tokens alone is that multiple transaction servers can be used and you don't all have to use the same server, so the trust gets distributed.  In any sort of network like this there will always be a few servers that try to rip people off outside of the network (you wire them money and they run with it,) but people will quickly abandon them in favor of the legitimate servers, and most users would likely keep lots of smaller accounts spread across multiple trusted servers, using software to coordinate large transactions.

Ultimately the goal would be to find a way to also mix in more standard payment processors like WebMoney, PayPal, merchant accounts, etc. but since those processors aren't designed to work with the network, means to verify payments being sent would have to be implemented for each new processor added to the network.  Transactions costs implementation means would be incorporated from the start since presumably the blind servers would want to be paid for their services (and ones that were trusted more could of course charge more.. or maybe not even have to since more payments would be automatically routed through them if more people trusted them.  Lowering your costs would cause more orders to route through your server versus an equally trusted one also, so supply and demand could work itself out more immediately.)  So when you add in traditional processors, you allow those nodes who trust two different servers to broadcast their pricing on exchanges back to the indexing services and orders will be routed through the cheapest providers, so again there is no real benefit to gouging unless you're the only exchanger for two currencies who can handle a certain transaction size.

Once fully implemented, the network acts like Tor and Ripple combined.. I get payments from random places and make payments to random places (automatically, possibly at a profit.)  I don't know why I'm receiving a blind payment from one guy and making a WebMoney payment to another, but I don't care because I'm making money and the system is set up to where I can't get screwed on the deal.  Of course you have credit limits stretching both ways, and like Ripple the system has to adjust for that.  If I've sent all I'm willing to on WebMoney, then I won't receive any more transactions requiring me to do so, but will start getting more facing the other way, getting paid in WebMoney and sending it out through blinded servers.  Again, all automatically, anonymously, safely, with transaction fees built in if I charge any (or have to charge them because WM or someone charges them to me.)

Monetary traffic is moved through the cheapest routes by default (some users may specifically choose to alter their routes around or through specific nodes for whatever reason at a slight increase in cost, or favor speed over cost minimization) so there is an incentive to keep your transaction fees low with rates eventually trending toward 0 (other than those necessary for WM, etc.) as people with access to large servers who benefit from economies of scale begin processing transactions at ever cheaper costs.  There would likely be many nodes who don't even charge transaction costs (this could be the default implementation, and would help avoid the case of a government entity setting up several 0 cost nodes to attempt traffic patterning.)

Now that I think about it, it works in some ways similarly to a smart power grid.  There are multiple power plants and multiple geographic locations that need varying amounts of power, and energy companies bid on hourly and daily contracts to decide who gets to route power from and to where.  They get paid extra for routing power around downed or saturated lines to relieve congestion.  If one company needs to move power from the South to the North and another needs to move it from the North to the South, they effectively cancel each other out in the system and the guy in the North agrees to route his to the North and the South guy to the South customers.. etc.  Of course there are many differences, the most obvious being that there are ideally so many independent transfer facilitators that you can't have an Enron purposely jamming lines and getting paid to fix it.  If you're familiar at all with their tactics, the Ricochet stills works under the model, but is supposed to in a free market.. capitalism rewards those who find ways to get around arbitrary government market restrictions like price caps.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 08:59:10 PM by timecube »

TooCold

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 09:21:27 PM »
Here's a book with a couple ideas.

Unless you are trying to hide 50 million dollars there are a bunch of easy ways to hide money and have it be very safe without any bank account. The following tricks are routinely used by those hiding money from ex-spouse and lawyers etc.

1. Pre-pay bills. You can pay your bills years ahead of time. (Don't have the statements sent to your primary residence)
2. Pre-paid debit cards. Netspend cards hold like $50,000 (I'd steer clear of greendot though)
3. Most importantly don't start some complex money laundering scheme to hide $20,000. You'd get way more time for laundering than the crime itself.

jon

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Re: Offshore banking / money laundering / hiding from those greedy Feds
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 09:38:19 PM »
this reminds me of that scene in office space where these guys just embezzeled 320 grand and could'nt figure out how to launder it so they looked it up in the dictionary.
if you want to know call you local tea party congressmen for some inside dirt.
most drug traffickers have word of mouth bankers who take 6 points per million to stash thier cash they fly them to places like aruba and tell them how little money it costs to have someone executed, if they mess up.
i don't know how the wealthy do it but they have 12 trillion parked in offshore accounts and swiss bank accounts i'm sure they have bankers on thier payroll too and lawyers you don't just figure this shit out by yourself.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 06:17:53 PM by jon »