The Great OTC Survey

[megalomania]

A couple of years ago I hit several local stores to find out what chemical they had. I called this the Great OTC Survey. I got yelled at in four stores and Wal Mart even threw me out for daring to write down prices! Although my prices may be a bit out of date I find this to be an invaluable resource to me when I want something. Keep in mind that chemical availability is somewhat regional. I hit only major chain stores although some will be limited to the northeastern United States in some cases. Use this as a guide to see what is out there. Now it has taken me too damn long to get around to publishing this, so bear with me as I do this as a quick and dirty thing right now. I will edit this document as I get to it and eventually I shall make it on my webpage in a nicer form. I hope all who read this will continue in my footsteps and post their own stores chemical contents.

My criterion is simple. For a chemical to qualify it must be either in pure form, a simple mixture, or a rare chemical. That means I don’t bother with bottles of shampoo with 20 different chemicals, but I will list the two or three chemicals in a solvent.

The listing is thus: Chemical substance first, amount or concentration, price, product name.

Sears
Methyl acetylene-propadine 44% $7.99 MAPP gas cylinder
Oxygen gas $9.99 oxygen cylinder
Sulfamic acid 340g $4.99 distiller cleaner
Sodium hexametaphosphate 48oz $24.99 phosphate crystals
Hydrochloric acid 31.45%/1 gal 2.99 muriatic acid
Ethyl alcohol
Acetone
Methyl ethyl ketone
VM&P naptha
Copper sulfate

A certain semi local department/grocery store
Yeast
d-glucose
hydrogen peroxide
isopropanol
boric acid
magnesium sulfate
p-dichlorobenzene, scented
naphthalene powder
p-dichlorobenzene
calcium chloride
1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
sani-flush (sodium bisulfate)
acetic acid

A certain pool and spa store
Cyanuric acid
Sodium tetraborate pentahydrate
Sodium bisulfate
Potassium carbonate
1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
1,3-dichloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
1,3-dichloro –5-ethyl-5-methylhydantion
1,3-dibromo-5,5-dimethylhydantion
potassium monopersulfate
lithium hypochlorite
sodium bromide

Sherman Williams
Ethyl alcohol
Hydrochloric acid

Pet Smart
Sodium thiosulfate

A semi local drugstore chain
Magnesium sulfate
Mineral oil
Diphenhydramine hydrochloride
Acetylsalicylic acid
Water
Zinc oxide
Iodine;sodium iodide
Glycerin
Isopropyl alcohol 70%
Ethyl alcohol
Isopropyl alcohol 91%
Hydrogen peroxide
Boric acid
Naphthalene
p-dichlorobenzene
1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
copper sponge
d-glucose

Another local drugstore
Acetone
Hydrogen peroxide
Boric acid
Sulfur
Glycerin
1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
naphthalene
p-dichlorobenzene
methyl salicylate

A semi big grocery store
Water
Acetic acid
Yeast
Sodium chloride
Sodium chloride 50lbs/40lbs/80lbs
Potassium chloride
Ammonium hydroxide
Sodium hydrosulfite, sodium bisulfite
Sani-flush
1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantion
isopropyl alcohol
calcium chloride
isopropyl alcohol
magnesium sulfate
hydrogen peroxide

A local paint store
Toluene
Xylene
Steel wool
Dichloromethane; isopropanol;methanol; et al
Methylene chloride; et al
Acetone
Methyl ethyl ketone
Ethyl alcohol
VM&P naptha

A local hardware store now out of business
Methylene chloride, et al
Mineral spirits
Ethylene glycol monobuytl ether; petroleum distillates
Boiled linseed oil
Turpentine
Ethyl alcohol
Acetone
Toluene
Methylene chloride; et al
Hydrochloric acid
Acetone; methyl alcohol
Sulfuric acid
Aluminum sulfate
Copper sulfate
Phosphoric acid
Propane
Oxygen
Methyl acetylene propadiene
Calcium chloride
Trisodium phosphate; copper sulfate
Trisodium phosphate hydrated
Oxalic acid
Phosphoric acid; hydrofluoric acid
Monosodium acid methanearsonate
Boric acid
Methyl alcohol
Ether; petro dist
Sodium chloride

Home Depot
Triple superphosphate
Charcoal
Zinc phosphide
Sodium hypochlorite
Xylene
Naptha
Methyl ethyl ketone
Ethyl alcohol
Acetone
Kerosene
Trisodium phosphate
Steel wool
Hydrochloric acid
Phosphoric acid; glycolic acid
Phosphoric acid
Hydrochloric acid
Calcium chloride
Hydrofluoric acid
Sulfamic acid
Zinc chloride
Copper sulfate
Sodium hydroxide
Sodium hydrosulfite; sodium bisulfite
Sulfuric acid
Benzoic acid; adipic acid
Propane
Oxygen
Nickel silver; copper phosphorus
Electrode rods
Polystyrene

A local ag co op
Dimethylsulfoxide

Wal-Mart
Wax
Broken glass
1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane
crystalline silica
acid detecting/neutralizing spray
calcium chloride
NaCl, CaCl, MgCl, KCl mix
Ether; et al
Methyl alcohol 100%
Isopropyl alcohol 100%
Xylene; ethylbenzene
Bromo-nitropane-diol; sodium chloride
Formaldehyde; methyl alcohol
Paraformaldehyde
Magnesium metal
Molasses
Lead balls
PH test kit
Activated carbon
bubblers
mineral oil
isopropyl alcohol 70%
hydrogen peroxide
magnesium sulfate

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: megalomania ]</small>

[randomquestion]

Wow! Again good work mega. Ive been wanting something like this for a while. Before I had to search online for the certain brands, and even then it is hard to find what store carries them. Also, in my case, I have limited transportation, and this will save me tons of time. I hope you have time to add to the list soon.

And can Wal Mart through you out for writing down pirces? I thought that was illegal. :rolleyes: Why should they be mad? They are the ones who carry the products and price them.

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: randomquestion ]</small>

[Al Nobel]

This is a usefull link for german members:omikron-online.de . They sell a lot of usefull chemicals for example: acetylsalicylic acid ,naphtalen ,hydrochloric acid 15% ,hydrogen peroxyd 15%,sulfur ,red phosphorus ,aceton , aluminium dust(200 mesh),magnesium dust(200 mesh).

[Alchemist]

Hello all, ***** RE-READ THIS OFTEN AS I KEEP EDITING IT *****

this is good, but like Mega said VERY regional! I also have several Wal-Mart, pet smart, Home Depot, etc. and they do NOT carry many of the chemicals that Mega's do. Yet you may drive to the next town and the same stores do!

If you do not know already Vodka, Jin, whisky, etc., with one distilling will give you 95% Ethanol. This can be made anhydrous with Calcium Oxide (quick
lime) From your grocery/liquor store (the spirits that is).

My pool store (Leslie's) also carries Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Bromide,Alum (Aluminium Potassium Sulfate), Calcium Chloride, Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP), Hydrochloric acid (HCL),etc.. Also Aqua Chem products (30% H2O2)!

Radio Shack sells Ferric Chloide (copper etch), and I have seen on and off at another local electronics store Ammonium PerSulfate (copper etch).

The Do it Center has Acetone, denatured alcohol, Conc. Sulfuric acid (drain opener), Sodium Hydroxide (Lye), Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK), Copper Sulfate, Sulfur, Urea, Potassium Nitrate (stump remover), rock Phosphate (Calcium Phosphate), Oxalic acid (Bar Cleaner, this is also available at many grocery stores), Cyanuric acid, Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Bisulfate, Sodium Bromide, Calcium Hypochlorite, and more I just can't remember at this moment.

A Green Thumb Nursery in my area, Sulfur , Urea, Potassium Nitrate (stump remover), Ferric Sulfate,Potassium Sulfate, Calcium Oxide (hydrated lime), Potassium Chloride, Calcium Nitrate, Zinc Sulfate, and more.

A Army/Navy surplus store, Hexamine(fuel tablets) and Magnesium (fire starters).

My Wal-Mart also has Ammonium Nitrate (cold packs), but I bet Mega's does also. Also they sell road Flares too. It's hard to remember it all!

My local hobby shop still sells model racing fuel with up to 30% Nitromethane (the rest being Methanol & Castor oil). I have heard many hobby shops have stopped selling Nitro racing fuel!

*NOTE* In my area I have seen Toluene and Xylene ONLY at Sherman Williams Paint stores.

Industrial cleaning supplies (Janitorial). These sell to anyone, but are more for schools and business's. I have found Citric acid, 30% Phosphoric acid (great for cleaning glassware), and 99% Acetic acid.

A local ag co op has Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Chloride, Ammonium Nitrate, Calcium Nitrate, etc., by the 50 and 100 lb sacks!

Though NOT in my town it's a 1.5 hour drive I can get at a Ceramic's/clay supplier, Antimony Oxide, Barium Carbonate, Chrome Oxide (green), Cobalt Carbonate, Cobalt Oxide, Copper Carbonate, Copper Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Feldspar (Calcium Floride), Iron Oxide (red, black, or yellow), Lithium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Carbonate, Manganese Dioxide, Nickel Carbonate, Nickel Oxide, Potassium Carbonate, Potassium Dichromate, Silica, Sodium Carbonate, Sodium Silicate, Strontium Carbonate, Tin Oxide, Titanium Dioxide, and Zinc Oxide! There are even some on the web that will mail order and even have more chemicals!
P.S., the name of this shop is Aardvarks (the 1.5 hour drive one), the internet one is <a href="http://www.clayartcenter.com/chem_raw_a.htm" target="_blank">http://www.clayartcenter.com/chem_raw_a.htm</a> .

More later as I look and remember where I got whatever. This is a REALLY good idea. Everyone please keep it going and if possible give name of store and if ya know, what you use the chemical for. Thanks!!!

P.S., Mega's does that semi local drugstore chain sell Naphthalene as Moth balls? I have not seen them for years now! Also what does your Home Depot sell Benzoic acid for and in what department?

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Alchemist ]</small>

[Machiavelli]

I remembers some time ago on the Hive some people warned about Omikron, he seems to be more cozy with the cops than your average chemical supply store, probably because he sells to the public.
While that's no reason to discard this source, use it with an extra dose of caution.

[NERV]

I have been looking for something like this for a long time. This will
help me get the prouducts I need faster. I have limited transportation (my mom), and she dosnt like it when I go from place to place looking for things. I would list where I get my stuff but I cant remember most of the names beside Walmart, and Home Depot.

[megalomania]

I have a listing of other stores, but those seem to have dissapeared. I can pull a few from memory. I should also note that my survey of some stores is incomplete. As I mentioned I tend to be unwelcome when doing this. The reason being they assumed I was some competitor snagging their prices. No they don't have the right to throw me out, but it dosn't mean they can't :( The manager bitch actually followed me around before getting "assistance" from co workers to have me removed. Apparently you have to register with them if you are a competitor come to get prices. They didn't believe me when I said I wasn't (nor did any of the others, but they didn't flip). A word of advice, all this pricing is hard on the knees. All that writing without a surface you see.

I amended my above list to include Sherman Williams. As you can see the selection there was minimal. The other paint store, besides the small container at Sears, is the only place to sell toluene (pure).

If I had to do this over again (which I may anyway) I think I would do it a bit slower, maybe not get the entire store, do a section at a time. I would use a tape recorder to make it less suspicious and a bit quicker. Easier on the knees :) Some of those larger hardware stores took me quite a few hours, and I don't think I finished them. Another tactic would be just to buy everything and then return it. If I was a competitor that is what I would do, then they give you a nice printout of everything. Of course #1 you run the risk of not being able to return some things #2 the new tactic is to charge restocking fees and #3 how many bells and whistles would go off buying a bunch of chemicals? Places like wal-mart have close ties with the DEA when it comes to suspicious chemical orders. All chemicals are suspicious by the way.

My mental addendium, not to be taken at face value:
An industrial plumber supply company
nitric acid ~30% 55 gallon drums, ~$75 for the acid and ~$200 for a refundable drum deposit

A local greenhouse
Calcium nitrate

Lowes Hardware
sulfur
triple superphosphate
aluminum sulfate
sodium bicarbonate
sodium bromide
calcium hypochlorite
sodium bisulfate

[Flake2m]

Has anyone done an OTC survey in Australia?
I am prepared to be a willing particpant to it as there are some shop with some really useful chemicals that are relitively cheap.
Though there really needs to be more people doing this so there is a more acurate idea of what to get where.

[blindreeper]

Sorry for bringing up a old post but if anyone is still interested in the Australian items here is my list:

Prices are approx.

KMnO4 - Got it at some argricultural place in hervey bay -$17/500g

KNO3 - Got it at growforce australia - $60/50kg

Ammonium Nitrate - <a href="http://www.duralite.com.au" target="_blank">www.duralite.com.au</a> - $33/kg

HCl - Bunnings - $8/2.5L

Acetone - Bunnings - $11/L

Methyl ethyl ketone - Bunnings - $5/250ml

Sulfer - Big W - $2.50/2.5kg

Sodium carbonate - Bunnings - $10/2.5kg

Formaldahyde 23% - Camperland - $11/L

Magnesium - Camperland - $16/ a block of it

Hexamine - Camperland - $5/ box of eight ( I think it was around 150g)

Pine charcoal - Camperland - $9/2.5kg

H2O2 50% (oxyplus) - J&K hydroponics - $12/500ml

Phosphoric acid - J&K Hydroponics - $13/250ml

Ethanol 97%&gt; - J&K Hydroponics - $27/L

Citric acid - Action supermarkets - $1.23/75g

Aluminium powder 325 mesh - <a href="http://www.metalpowders.com.au" target="_blank">www.metalpowders.com.au</a> - $15/kg

Zinc powder 4.5 micron - <a href="http://www.metalpowders.com.au" target="_blank">www.metalpowders.com.au</a> - $10/kg

Laboratory supplies (apparatus) <a href="http://www.livingstone.com.au" target="_blank">www.livingstone.com.au</a> - um to many prices ask for a laboratory catalogue. They often have lots of specials :)

Chemical suppliers:

<a href="http://www.bacto.com.au" target="_blank">www.bacto.com.au</a> - They have lists of chemicals on their site, very friendly no questions asked.

<a href="http://www.ssapl.com.au" target="_blank">www.ssapl.com.au</a> - Site is still under construction but just email them for a catalogue.

If you have any more to add please do so.

<small>[ February 20, 2003, 04:19 AM: Message edited by: blindreeper ]</small>

[jarrod]

<a href="http://www.selbybiolab.com.au/" target="_blank">Selby Biolab</a> is an excellent lab supplier for in Australia, mainly with apparatus, they ask to many questions with chemicals. The only bad thing is that each time you buy something you have to spend $200 minimum. :mad:

PS. they stock everything you can think of

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: jarrod ]</small>

[Tuatara]

Tungsten rods can be had from a welding / engineering shop

[static_firefly]

<a href="http://www.sigma-chem.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.sigma-chem.com.au</a> sell heaps of stuff. Kmno4=1kg for $12-20 and they ship overseas. I havent yet ordered from them since i live on the farthers possable (they are in perth and im am on the SE coast) and that sounds like a lot of shipping.

50% h202, oxyplus 500ml $11 hydroponics store
25kg kno3, $29 fertlizer werehouse
I have plenty of other things but most likely everyone knows where to get them.
...i also have found this gold cleaner at a supermarket i suspect to be hno3 based. $10 for 100mls i dun wanner waste to find its not.

[green beret]

93% Mono Ethylene Glycol can be obtained at Big-W. $29 for 5 litres. Or you can buy 30g/l ethylene glycol, $3.60 for 5 litres.
They are both sold as antifreeze.

Also, at your local supermarket, you can get pure AN, yes, thats right, at the supermarket. Those hippo moisture absorbers contain pure AN prills. Not cheap, but if you can get them on "discount" its worthwhile, or if youre making small APAN charges you could buy it, since you wouldnt need heaps.
I actually went down to coles today, to have a look and see if I could borrow some, but they were all sold out! Maybe there are other pyros in my area...

<small>[ February 28, 2003, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: green beret ]</small>

[xyz]

A good chem supplier in West Australia is Agent Sales ( <a href="http://www.agentsales.com.au" target="_blank">www.agentsales.com.au</a> ).

They ask some questions but don't seem to care what answers you give. They have H202 and H2SO4 both very cheap.

What exactly are these hippo things?, I can get pure AN for $1AUD/Kilo but I am interested to know what these are in case my AN source disappears or something.

<small>[ March 01, 2003, 02:18 AM: Message edited by: xyz ]</small>

[shooter3]

Today I was shopping at the marine store(National chain, you know who it is)and went to the epoxy section (national brand, same name as the store though not related)and saw a dusty old can of "Hard coat".oka 400 mesh Al. powder.

I told him I wasn't sure that it would be any good seeing that it was over 2 years old(HaHa), but I'd give him thirty bucks for the can. He said OK, so I scored a 4 lb can for $30.00! Oh, the underutalized marine stores.

[jarrod]

Does anyone know where pentaerythritol can be obtained in Australia without to many questions. I have looked and found absolutely nothing.

[10fingers]

Finding sources of chems is one of the joys of this hobby, here are some of the things I've found;
Menards, similar to Home Depot or Lowes
Toluol
Xylene
Ethanol
Naptha
Acetone
Methylene Chloride/Paint Stripper
Ethyl Ether/Starting Fluid
Calcium Hypochlorite/Swimming Pool Chlorinator
Sodium Chloride/Water Softener Salt
Potassium Chloride/Water Softener Salt Substitute
Calcium Chloride/Ice Melt
Sodium Hydrogen Sulfate/Drain Opener
Sulfuric Acid 90%/Drain Opener
Potassium Permanganate/Iron Filter Cleaner
Silicone Grease/Plumbing
Hydrochloric Acid

Wal-Mart;
Hydrogen Peroxide 3%
Glycerin
Ethylene Glycol/Antifreeze
Ammonium Hydroxide/Household Ammonia Solution
Paraformaldehyde/Portable Toilet Disinfectant
Acetone
Ethanol
Isopropyl Alcohol
Boric Acid
Magnesium Sulfate/Epsom Salts
Methanol/Gas Line Antifreeze, Windshield Washer Fluid
Sodium Hypochlorite 5%/Bleach
Calcium Hypochlorite/Swimming Pool Chlorinator
Potassium Chloride/Water Softener Salt Substitute
Sodium Chloride/Water Softener Salt
Calcium Chloride/Ice Melter
Hydrofluoric Acid/Whink Rust Remover
Calcium Phosphate/Fertilizer
Hydrochloric Acid

Green House/Hydroponics Suppliers;
Calcium Oxide/Lime
Calcium Hydroxide/Hydrated Lime
Ammonium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
Calcium Nitrate
Ammonium Phosphate
Calcium Phosphate
Ammonium Sulfate
Urea

Napa Auto Parts;
Sulfuric Acid/Battery Electrolyte
Methanol/Gas Line Antifreeze
Isopropyl Alcohol/Gas Line Antifreeze

Ceramics Suppliers;
Iron Oxide, Red
Iron Oxide, Black
Chrome Oxide
Titanium Dioxide
Manganese Dioxide
Zinc Oxide
Tin Oxide
Aluminum Oxide
Copper Oxide
Cobalt Oxide
Iron Chromate
Potassium Dichromate
Iron Chromate
Barium Carbonate
Strontium Carbonate
Nickel Carbonate
Potassium Carbonate
Copper Carbonate
Lithium Carbonate
Borax
Sodium Silicate

[green beret]

xyz, the hippo moisture absorbers are plastic containers, usualy in the section with other household cleaning products etc. There is an add on TV for them too. I can get AN for $1 per kilo too, these are just my backup source, its always good to have more than one supplier <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Jarrod, there is a place (I think) that sells PE, but its in 25kg bags and they wont sell to individuals, there was a person offering to sell it on the forum a while back, I was in email contact with him but he hasnt replied back recently. I am still working on getting a "sample" from one of these big companies, but no luck yet. I have made it my quest to search out PE in Australia, but no luck yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[Tuatara]

I've found a seriously odd source of magnesium - the local vet! These things are 200g of magnesium metal, shaped like a giant gel cap cut in half lengthwise, with a rubber backing. They are for preventing Mg deficiency in cows (I pity the poor cow that has to swallow that fucker! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> )
I live in a rural town, with lots of dairy farmers, so you probably wont find this thing in a city vet clinic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Jumala]

I have also a source for a good assortment of pyrochems but I cannot post the adress because it isn´t a company.

Edit:
It is a german source. I can send the mailadress to everyone who likes it.
I think it will be no problem to send chems to other EU countrys but like I cannot buy from Skylighter people from US or Australia cannot get chems from here.

I bought Dark Al powder, Potassiumperchlorate, sodiumazide, magnesiumpowder and leadnitrate there and it was good quality.

Kaliumperchlorat
Kaliumchlorat
Natriumchlorat
Bariumchlorat
Dark Alu German Black 5413 H (2-5µm)
Aluflakes(2µm)
Magnesiumpulver(50µm-60µm)
Magnaliumpulver
Titanpulver (150µm)
Titanpulver (400µm)
Titanpulver und Granulate bis 2000µm möglich = anfragen
Ferrotitan
Strontiumnitrat ( 20µm)
Bariumnitrat ( 30µm)
Bariumcarbonat
Strontiumcarbonat
Lithiumcarbonat
Antimontrisulfid dark
Mangandioxyd
Eisenfeilspäne
Kupferoxyd
Red Gum Pulver
Holzkohlepulver
Kaliumbenzoat
Parlon
Schwefel
Zinkpulver
PVC-Pulver
Lamp black
Kaliumdichromat
Ammoniumperchlorat
Natriumazid

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Jumala ]</small>

[andreas]

jumala is it possible for dutch members to get that info about your otc source.
Email is kramrak@hotmail.com

<small>[ March 16, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: andreas ]</small>

[Haggis]

10fingers, at Menards, there is also:
Sodium Hydroxide, 510 grams, 3.19
Oxalic Acid, 453 grams, 2.19
Trichloroethylene, 1 quart, 5.99
Glyphosate, isoproplamine salt. 50.2% 1 quart, 39.98
Sodium Bisulfate, 2.27 kg, 4.89
2,4,6 trihydroxy-s-triazine, .794kg, 4.89
Sodium Carbonate, 2.04kg 4.49
Sodium Bisulfate 1.79

They also have a nice respirator for 29.99 that will filter chlorine, HCl gas, lead containing vapors, solvent vapors, organic vapors, asbestos and is a nice particulate filter. The potassium permaganate is 2.27kg for 16.98.

[blindreeper]

Can any one verify that it's AN in those hippo's?
I can't find the contents of them on the box and some others are using calicum chloride.

If anyone has a supply of PE in the south east of oz let me know fast.

I have found a supplier that sells sodium azide - 100g for $60 :0

[Zerstoren Sie]

Not really OTC, but there is an excellent source of mg that can sometimes be found just sitting near the road. Since mg is used for rust protection, sometimes workers put in new blocks of it in manholes. Someone I knew found a 17-lb block in that manner. Also, I am fairly sure you can buy these, they are around $50US for a block this size.

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Zerstoren Sie ]</small>

[Skean Dhu]

yea, they do that for large shipping boats too. something about the valance electrons shifting from the Mg to the Al/iron hulls and such
anywho... down to busness

amount of substance if known -- price -- brand
Domnics(local garden/landscaping center)
1.5 lbs KNO3-- $2.98 -- Hi-yeild stump remover

Wal*Mart
AN prills -- $.88 -- Ace instant cold packs
pyrex measuring cups $1.50-$4.50
Lowes
1 gal HCl -- $3 -- Muriatic acid
937mL acetone -- $4 -- Klean~strip Acetone

updated when possible

[Haggis]

Yea, the large magnesium blocks are called sacrificial anodes. Magnesium is oxidized more rapidly than iron so the magnesium degrades faster. Old service stations would bolt a big Mg block to the underground gas tanks to keep them from rusting though. Also, some steel fishing boats have a strip of Mg down the bottom for the same reason.

[blindreeper]

Just thoight I would say that the stuff in hippo moisture absorbers is NOT ammonium nitrate for 4 reasons.
1. It has a smell like lime.
2. I tried detonating 100g of it with 30g MEKP with a 2g AP cap and no detonation.
3. It has an EXOthermic reaxtion with water.
4. It burns with a orange flame meaning it is probably calcium chloride like all the other brands.

Just letting you know if you go out and buy 10 hippo's and try to make a 3kg ANFO and it won't work.

(The only thing is it turns into a liquid (absorbs moisture) in 30 sec in air which makes me think it is a mix of calcium chloride and ammonium nitrate or something else)

[Tuatara]

Ceramics suppliers have been metioned above, so ditto previous listings and add

Vanadium pentoxide (oooo! can we make sulphuric acid then?)
Zirconium silicate

And of course the usual range of refractories

Alumina
Ball clay
Bentonite
grog
clacite
china clay
cornish stone
dolomite
feldspar (Na or K)
fireclay
silica
talc

Ceramics suppliers don't question - they just assume you want to make glaze.

Note also that Ni and Cd can of course be had from NiCd batteries:p (thats why I keep all my old ones)
And silver from silver oxide batteries, mercury from ...(but mercury tilt switches are cheaper) etc

[green beret]

Blindreeper, you say you tried to detonate the chemical in the hippo absorbers with 30g of MEKP? Well, ANFO will detonate to 50g of high explosive, and plain AN would take shitloads more to detonate, so, if it is AN, I wouldnt say your test was definite.

Also you said you tried to detonate 100g of it (100g would be quite hard to detonate anyway), what size was your container, and did you gravity feed the explosive or press it?

[zaibatsu]

Green Beret, I believe he is saying that he created an ANAP variant using MEKP instead of AP, and tried to detonate this using an AP cap. Considering it is a 75/25 AN/MEKP mix, you'd assume it would be flame sensitive and would definitely detonate from a 2g AP cap.

However, as always, I could be wrong ;)

[Stone]

Does anyone have a brand name for the hexamine fuel tablets in Australia? My local camping store owner looked at me funny and started asking me questions when I asked about ones with hexamine in them.
Also, can H2SO4 be bought at AU hardware stores for any particular use? I see it's used for cleaning in the US, but we use HCl for cleaning concrete and NaOH for cleaning our pipes over here.

[Anthony]

Many drain unblockers are Na/KOH based over here too. They're the pussy domestic types, looking at more industrial products should help you find a H2SO4 based one.

[jfk]

what a good read that was, boy wish i had known some of that stuff while i was over in the US on honiday in october *smuggle smuggle smuggle*

anyways, im off to find some recently worked on man holes ive got a chain winch and frame in my pickup, a few crow bars and some road cones, a reflective vest....its about 10pm here pitch black......if anyone sees me ill look like some road crew or soemthing *hopes*.......and if alls well ill get me some fuck off piece of Mg *hopes*

here in new zealand....

Wairau paint center, wairau road, glenfield, auckland

MEK --- 1 litre --- $15.95 TRADE $19.95 NORMAL
Acetone --- 1 litre --- $15.95 TRADE $19.95 NORMAL
Hydrochloric acid --- 2 litres --- $21.95 NORMAL (didnt get chance to buy on trade)

Any chemist, range varies per chemist and so does quantity

Glacial acetic acid --- 100mL --- $4-6
methanol with bitrex --- 100-1000mL --- $3-10
hydrogen peroxide --- 100-500mL --- $3-10 (6%), $2-8 (3%)
Napthalene flakes / moth balls, varied per store, most should have it.


cant finish this list tonight, sorry will be here to update it later. gotta dash, the night is but young for Mg theiving

[metafractal]

Stone, Hexamine is sold as Esbit tablets in Australia and is found at almost any camping store. Dilute sulphuric acid is sold as CLR as a cleaning agent for "Calcium, Lime, and Rust" and is found at most supermarkets and hardware stors that I go to.

[blindreeper]

Greet Beret,

Also you said you tried to detonate 100g of it (100g would be quite hard to detonate anyway), what size was your container, and did you gravity feed the explosive or press it?

Sorry for my ignorance but what is gravity feed? It was in a McDonalds orange juice contanier. When the MEKP was added I was a tad worried about the heat coming off (thats what CaCl₂ does when in contact with a liquid.
I think I'll just detonate KNO₃ (try at least) as I do not have a good sourse of ammonium nitrate (I do but I don't want to be suspicious)
Ok Very off topic.
Regards to the hexamine in Oz. I got about half a kilo this long weekend cause I went on a cedet activity and was responsible for all the ration packs, food and hexi stoves. So I accuired some. The packets are white and small. They are ADI (Australian Defence Industries) brand. There is 2 types of them. One of them has:

Fuel, Compressed Hexamine
Contents: 4 Tablets
Made In Australia by
(ADI logo)

The other is:

Fuel, Compressed Hexamine
Hexamethylenetetraamine
Contents: 4 Tablets
Made In Australia by
(ADI logo)

I get these from cadets and from army disposal stores for $2.35 for 100g (each tablet is 25g)
I hope this helped.

Edited by Zaibatsu to change UBB code to HTML and make it all look nicer

[FadeToBlackened]

At a local um.. farm supply hardware type store,.. they have 5 gallon barrels of "Parts Washer Solvent". I don't think it had it's contents listed, anyone have any ideas?

[Tuatara]

Just ask for an MSDS for the stuff. This should give you some idea of whats in it, though not the proportions.

[xyz]

The hexamine fuel tablets that I have seen don't have any particular brand written on them. They just come in a pack for $5AUD and say "Hexamine Fuel Tablets" on them, they have about 150g of hexamine in them IIRC. I got them from a camping/army surplus shop.

AN is easy enough to find, you just have to know where to look. Ask people at a hydroponics shop if they can order it in for you. Someone who isn't me got a 40Kg bag of it for $29AUD this way.

The Mg blocks on manhole covers, are they on the bottom of the cover so that you can access them if you lift the cover up?

[jfk]

well there are definetly no Mg blocks under man hole sin NZ, after my midnight search a week and a bit ago. i am a bit confused about the whole thing actualy,.....Mg being more expensive than Zn for sacrificial annodes when Zn does a perfectly good job on its own.....well our govt certantly wouldnt waste anymore money than is needed infact they wouldnt waste any !!! theres no sacrificial annodes under the man holes round here.

the hexamine we have here is $11.95 for 24 tablest OR $2.95 for 12 + a burner for them.....someones making a killing on thse refil packs....

there about 5 grams per tablet. under the "colemans" brand

[Unknown]

jfk, for magnesium, old Volkswagons have magnesium cases so if you go to an auto dismantler type place you should be able to find one. Anthony, you're not alone with the pussy drain cleaners. The "professional strength" cleaners in Northern California are Hydrochloric acid sometimes, Na/KOH most of the time, and never H2SO4 (probably because some careless plumber might spill some and harm the endangered blue balled jackalope or the pearl crested cock gobbler or some stupid shit, I'm not shitting you, even Ferrets are illegal here!!). Well here is my list of stuff from Northern California:

Wallmart - Sodium Hydroxide (drain cleaner), Hydrochloric Acid (professional strength drain cleaner), Phosphoric Acid (drain cleaner), ethyl ether (starting fluid)
Kelly Moore Paints -Sulfamic Acid (concrete etcher), Hydrochloric Acid
Longs Drugs - Sulphuric Acid/38% (oh yeah baby, the only place around that has Sulphuric Acid, it is a swimming pool acid) glycerin (found by the oil of wintergreen and Epsom Salts), Sodium Bisufite (for swimming pools), Sodium Carbonate (for swimming pools), Ammonium Nitrate (cold packs).
Local pet store - Activated carbon (for filters, they sell it in milk type cartons), Sodium carbonate (Ph reducer).
Friedman Brothers (like Home Depot) - Acetone (5gal cans!!, 1gal, 2qt cans), Hydrochloric Acid (for concrete etching IIRC), Methyl Ethyl Ketone (5gals, 1gal, 2qt cans), denatured alcohol (cleaner), Kerosene (5gals, 1gal, 2qts for fuel), Napthalene (1gal, 2qt).
Big 5 sporting goods - Esbit fuel tabs made from hexamine ( SWIM has been using these to make HMTD without a problem)
Every hair salon I've been to - H202 (20,35,40%/32oz & 1gal) Isn't vanity wonderful?
For those of you outside the U.S. - I sometimes get H202 from taxidermy places on the internet when the hair salons run out. The H202 is used for bleaching the poor dead bastards' fur.

[zeocrash]

OK well on my travels around homebase, (well i work there on saturdays) i found the following
Metaldehyde (slug pellets)
dichloromethane (nitromors paint stripper)
Tar acids (i'm not quite sure what this is but i heard somewhere that it contained naptha)

other things that cant be bought from homebase
sulfamic acid (limelite concentrate)

nitromethane (apparently pure http://www.glue-shop.com/TG1.htm )
Hydrochloric acid, H2O2 and Hypochlorites, http://www.swimmingpoolsuppliesuk.com/
Acetone (boots nail varrish remover)

[Darkbloodpriest]

Green beret: I'd be willing to bet that those moisture absorbers are not AN.
Calcium chloride comes in two forms, prilled and crystals. Looking at it they can appear similiar.
I would simply do the old newspaper smoke bomb trick described in Lowry's makeshift arsenal.
[kewl recipe]Simply grind up your prills....pour them into a equal amount of water, and turn it into a slush.
Dip some newspaper into it, and let it soak for about 10 minutes. Hang to dry someplace, and light afterwards. If you get a fizz and pure white smoke, it's AN. If not.....[/kewl recipe]
I can't understand the exothermic reaction though. A little tiny bit of heat MAYBE, but not much.
Also, calcium chloride doesn't get that same "oily" feeling AN has. And it turned into what in how much time??? Do you live right by the ocean? I would not think it would be THAT humid there.
Haggis: Sacrificial anodes NEVER come as magnesium(nowadays), only zinc. I can't understand why they would be necessary. I can't imagine anyone cares about having rust-free manhole covers.
Metafractal CLR usually comes with various surfectants and cleaning agents, and a VERY dilute acid, usually no more than 5%. And it would be sulfamic or phosphoric, SOMETIMES hydrochloric, but it still is only 5% or less.
Unknown Why only outside U.S.? There are taxidermy shops in the states too.
Any good hunting supply store should have skull bleaching kits. Tad bit expensive though...

[Unknown]

Darkbloodpriest - I noticed a lot of threads posted by European members stating that they could not find H2O2 so I was informing the members from countries other than the U.S. about the taxidermy sites as a source of H2O2. As for the U.S. members, I have seen H2O2 in hair salons in several states that I visited, so I'm assuming that it is fairly easy to get in most states. I could very easily be wrong, especially if a state has a Feinstein type senator.

I remembered the name of the taxidermy site I ordered from, it is called " Van Dykes". I believe they have 35/40% H2O2.

[Arthis]

Two points: first acetone is really easy to get, it a standard solvent sold to anyone even under 18 guys, at least in France it is so common, you can order by 5 five liters for a few $ (here € ! ;)).

Second point is about H2O2, at least in France: besides it may not easily be available from the supermarket in the chemicals section, but rather in pharmacy (and expensive), it is legal to buy some without any authorisation, at a concentration of 30-35 % (that's what I use to buy).
You may just need to go to a drugstore and order it (they have a license to buy chems from great supliers), they'll have easily I guess. The price shouldn't be high, even if you pay for the transport. Mine was 5-7 € / liter, 30%.

As H2O2 is a common stuff, I guess that it should be easily available in the whole Europe (due to standards being set). In case if you make a trip to France...

[knowledgehungry]

What is copper sulfate sold as?

[Haggis]

I am not positive on that, but I believe it is sold as an echant for PCB's.

[inFinie]

copper sulphate CuSO4 is not a PCB etchant because PCB's are made up of Cu and copper compunds can't etch copper.:D

[Haggis]

I looked it up now that you said I was wrong. It says that Copper Sulfate is sold in agriculture centers as a root killer. This source would probably be impure, as anything meant to kill things in your yard are usually diluted. It also says it is a copper mordant. Perhaps it is not for PCB's, but dictionary.com has this to say about mordants:"A corrosive substance, such as an acid, used in etching. " If it's used for etching, then wouldn't it be an echant?

[blindreeper]

Copper sulfate is sold as "Bluestone" in most places I go.

[inFinie]

In my place it is called Blue Vitriol
A mordant is a stuff that stabilises dyes
Mostly water soluble dyes. When mordant is added, an unsoluble complex ion or metal dye-ate compound forms. And it does not wash out from a clothe.

[Arthis]

To Haggis: let's not generalize when it comes to pure/impure products. For example, NaClO3 is sold over 99%. AN too, and you can find many other stuffs sold in conc. over 98%, like KNO3, P2O5...

[Zappy100]

For german members: omikron has already been mentioned. They carry some very usefull stuff not available from other companies. Here is another good source: http://www.neolab.de/ (the last button on the left lists all the chemicals they have available).

I have another source which has just supplied me with 100% fuming nitric without asking any questions but I am not going to reveal this.

[blindreeper]

If you didn't want anyone to know you shouldn't have said anything :rolleyes:
And if you have read some of the nitric acid threads it has been established after MUCH debating that nitric acid cannot be 100%

[Anthony]

Let's not be pedantic - what's labelled as "100%" will be ~100%.

It is a bit of a tease to say "I've just bought pure HNO3 OTC, but I'm not going to tell you where", but is useful in that it tells you that it can be done, if you look in the right places.

I'm surprised you found ~100% HNO3, not even big suppliers seem to carry it, it can't have many uses outside of Naughty Things (TM) synthesis :)

[blindreeper]

And TM is...

[Haggis]

I think he is using it as "Trade Mark".

[megalomania]

I was shopping for some ant killer today at a local hardware store and I gave the place my obligatory total walk through, when lo and behold I discovered a container of potassium permanganate. 1.5 lb or 680 g for $8.99 of pure potassium permanganate. I probably overpaid, but this is the first time I have seen the stuff OTC with my own two eyes. The potassium permanganate is in the form of a fine powder, as oppose to the course crystals of my ACS grade stuff.

I took pictures! Fear my leet photographic artistry.

[nbk2000]

Uhh...jeez...I hate to bring this up mega...but I just got done posting a big rant on picture size/cropping/etc for the rules and here you are posting this big honking picture. :eek:

We must lead by example and all that...;)

[megalomania]

I know I know. I actually edited it down quite a bit, but it came out so nice I wanted to show off. Dictators perogative.

[knowledgehungry]

I have seen that exact container except in a 5 lb amount for 19$ I think thats a pretty good price.

[yt2095]

also known as Blue Vitriol.
it can be obtained from gardening shops as "bordeaux mix" for killing fungus type crap off plants, IIRC the other component is Calcium someting or other.
a quick re-crystalisation soon sorts out the blue bits :)

Edit: also the etchant used (mostly for home use) is ferric Chloride.

some peroxides are used occasionaly, esp for photo etching.

[Arthis]

Humm Mega your KMnO3 bottle is written mostly in French. Would that mean a possible easy source right here in France ? Well, it's comforting. I gotta search a bit. Could it be possible to have a good resolution to be able to read the trademark, and other characteristics that may be useful ? I know NBK, it means a heavy file. I can be resized though.

After good news, bad news: sodium chlorate, sold as total grasskiller, is now forbidden here. It was too dangerous to use (not totally dissolved the first time, a rain would drain it down to the neighbour's field and kill all the trees -e.g. of course, it happened- ).
There's a little hope since it's forbidden to use it as grasskiller, but stocks need to be sold :)

[Arthis]

Today I was at a homestore to see what chems they had, and guess what I found, MEKP !!! :eek: It's sold pure I think. It's said to be an oxydiser, nasty compound. Nothing about possible explosion... It's sold as an hardener for polyethylene/gel coat (used on boats, with the glass fiber). Sold 100 mL, ~4 €. that's a surprise !

[0EZ0]

Arthis, by industrial standards MEKP can not be sold pure due to explosion/fire risks. What you have is most likely the Monomer form of MEKP in a Dimethyl phthalate solution. It usually only contains up to 60% by weight of MEKP and it also contains a few percent of hydrogen peroxide. If you have a pic of the bottle, do post it as it would be interesting to see just what you bought. MSDS for MEKP online are a dime a dozen, read a few and you will soon see just what the average contents of MEKP catylictic hardener is.

[Arthis]

The stuff is difficult to burn, on wood I managed to make it "burn", quite good oxydizer. It's said it is MEKP, they don't speak about any diluant nor impure product nor additives. I guess there's no H2O2 in cause they don't speak about corrosion risks. I'll edit this post to add the picture as soon as I have it.

[zeocrash]

ok today while at work (homebase, a DIY store)
i found some usefull sources of chemicals
ok the ronseal wood repair contains styrene (ethenylybenzene, C8 H8 )
and benzoyl peroxide,
i was wondering if anyone knew of any uses for these two chemicals apart from the obvious polystyrene manufacture

i also found that evo stick adhesive remover contains toluene and n-hexane (i'm not quite how a linear chain molecule can have an n- prefix, but anyway)
the homebase iron descailer contains ortho-phosporic acid
and the treestump remover conatins ammonium sulfamate
i'm not sure of the purities, but i believe that the evostick cleaner only contains the listed ingredients, the wood repair may have added ingredients in the styrene to make the polystyrene more "wood like", but i believe the benzoyl peroxide (used as the hardener) is pure

[nbk2000]

Styrene is useful for purifying thionyl chloride by removing sulfur chlorides, prior to use in V agent synthesis.

It's also good as a CW thickner when polymerized in situ with the agent. Check the patents section.

I found a pint of ammonium bifluoride/sulfuric acid for $25 at a hobby shop for use as a glass frosting bath. They had a smaller bottle (4 oz) for $8.

[blindreeper]

While looking on the diggers web page (I was using their HCl and saw a website listed) I thought I wonder what products they sell and they have the usual DIY stuff. Then I went to the oxides a found something very interesting indeed!

The Black oxide is 100% Fe3O4 (no thats read correctly)
The red/fire red oxide is 100% Fe2O3
The Green oxide is 100% Cr2O3 (chromic oxide yeh!!!)

Now some one is going to order 1 kg of aluminium powder and make some exotic thermites :D

IIRC Cr2O3 is some sort of catalyst no?


Yey 100th post!

[yt2095]

this may or maynot be of any use to anyone, but by pure chance i happened upon a source of pharmacutical(sp?) grade Aluminium Oxide.
it`s in an over the counter medicine called Aludrox, for indigestion acid heartburn etc...
ok there`s other crap in there too, mostly suspension agents and flavoring, but allowed to dry and destructively heated, i`m possitive that a fair concentration of product could be obtained.

[nbk2000]

That reminded me...the hobby shop had a silver remover (for restoring mirrors, with the glass etching stuff) that was chromium trioxide. I dont' know if it was liquid or powder since the bottle was too full to shake and tell, but it was 4 oz for abut $7.

[blindreeper]

I was in the hobby shop today and to my supprise I found they have 2.5L bottles of 100% nitro on the shelves. It's $75, is that a good price?
Also when I was in the agricultural centre (crap has horse stuff aswell) getting some KCl for my ClO3 cell I found 5L bottles of formaldehyde 40% for $30. The stuff is clear aswell. It was labled as formalin and used for treating hoof rot on sheep :D I allo had got sulfur from there one time and I was wondering what they used it for and they feed it to goats :p poor goats but apparently they mix it with the food.
They also had 10% Iodine (1L) for $15 and 1kg of pure ascorbic acid for $40. And to top it off I found the same bottle of KMnO4 I got when I was in hervy bay - 500g for $17. So check your local farm supply. And I found an aray of solenoids.

Since there is so much stuff you can get in Oz, I have been inspired to do a full blow OTC Servey. I now keep a small notepad and pen in my wallet (which goes everywhere) so if I find anything good I can write it down.

BTW. nbk, CrO3 undergoes a hypergolic reaction with methanol which I have a movie of :p Quite impressive.

[rooster]

blindreeper: care to share that video with us? Sounds interesting...

[Anthony]

"they have 2.5L bottles of 100% nitro on the shelves"

Yeah, you might want to double-check that...

[knowledgehungry]

I think he meant nitromethane not nitric acid.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you were saying that blindreeper should double check that because you thought he was wrong, not because it was a good find.

[nbk2000]

I'm sure he meant nitro(methane). ;)

[blindreeper]

In saying "nitro" and that I found it in a hobby shop, I thought it would be obvious it was NM. I up loaded the movie here (http://www.geocities.com/blindreeper_chemistry/index.html?1057800052948)
It's at the bottom of the page as "Chromic trioxide and methanol hypergolic" It's in .mov sorry thats how I downloaded it.

[Anthony]

Ahh, NitroMETHANE

$70AU for 2.5L isn't too bad, it's about what I pay here in the UK when converted soley by exchange rate.

[Mr Cool]

If that chromium trioxide is really CrO3, then it is a great find! Powerfully carcinogenic, though.
Could be Cr2O3 though, just as P2O5 is commonly called phosphorous pentoxide...

[blindreeper]

I was in a store that sell products for homemade stained glass windows yesterday and found a 250ml bottle of ethylene glycol. It has a lime green colour and no other ingredients were listed so could it be pure? It is used for coolant (sp?) of glass routers.

[Arthis]

Your ethylene glycole may not be totally pure, there are a few additives, for the color often, and just because they help getting a lower melting point than pure product.

The fact nothing else is listed doesn't mean anything, more and more products are sold without a detailed content. That sucks !!:(

[THErAPIST]

I went to the feed and grain store thats about 10 minutes from my house yesterday just for something to do and i found a great many things.

sulfur
sulfuric acid
sodium nitrate
calcium nitrate
potassium nitrate 39.80%
sodium chlorate (3 lb cans)
sodium chlorate 25 lb bags of 30% sodium chlorate weed killer ($50 US)
and a few sulfates but they're not all that helpful.

[knowledgehungry]

When you post where you found stuff it is helpful to note wht country you are in, I assume that it is the US as you said 50$ US but there are other countries that use the US$.

[knowledgehungry]

Well i found some "nitrate of soda" fertilizer yesterday at my local hardware store, I am assuming it is pure(relatively) NaNO3 as soda normally refers to sodium compounds. Also instead of 16-0-0 as KNO3 this was 15-0-0, since NA is slightly lighter than K i would assume that its NaNO3.

[blindreeper]

Ok I have just got back from doing an 2 hour survey of bunnings warehouse for the ozzie people

MEK (100%) - 1L $8 - 4L $22.67
Acetone (100%) - 1L $10.13 - 4L $25.35
HCl (30%) - 500ml $6 - 2.5L $8 - 5L $12
Fe2O3 - 500g $10 (red oxide cement dye)
Fe3O4 - 500g $10 (black oxide cement dye)

Cleaning ile
Napthalene - 350g $4.13
CaCl2 - 1kg $5.95 - 4kg $16.14 (moisture absorber refill)
Oxalic acid - 2kg $24.77
NaOH - 2kg $12.29
Parafin wax - 200g $5

Pool section
Sodium hydrogen sulfate - 3kg $9.95
10% Benzalkonium chloride (liquid) - 1L $9.95
Sodium persulfate - 1kg $18.50
100% Isocyuranic acid (not trichloroisocyuranic acid) 2kg $19.95
Aluminium sulfate - 2kg $9.95
Sodium carbonate - 2kg $9.95
Calcium hypochlorite - 4kg $29.95
100% Sodium dichloroisocyurate - 2kg $22.95

Gardening section
Magnesium sulfate - 500g $6.39
Iron sulfate - 500g $6.55
Copper sulfate - 500g $8.96
Potassium sulfate - 2.5kg $10
Sulfur - 500g $6.82
Urea - 400g $3.10 - 5kg $11.94
Ammonium sulfate - 2.5kg $5.49

Fiber glass section
Xylene - 1L $15.12
Shelac flakes - 300g $12.14
Metho (96% ethanol ;)) 20L $57
Bolied linseed oil - 1L $8.65
Calcium sulfate - 3kg $9.60 (plaster of paris)
60% Toluene (rest is methanol) - 1L $15

God damn that took ages to type :eek: So anyone got any questions bout the things listed?

BTW most of the stuff here is pure uless stated :D

This is just bunnings I will be doing a whole lot more stores soon.

[0EZ0]

Just a few corrections and comments for you blindreeper. Don't take my remarks the wrong way. I'm sure everyone appreciates the effort you put in, but there are a few things that should be noted.

100% Isocyuranic acid (not trichloroisocyuranic acid) 2kg $19.95
100% Sodium dichloroisocyurate - 2kg $22.95 To be picky. It's Isocyanuric acid, Trichloroisocyanuric acid and Sodium dichloroisocyanurate. A good find if it is Tech grade Isocyanuric acid:).
Metho (96% ethanol;)) 20L $57 :confused: Ermm.. I hope you're not intending to drink that denatured ethanol. What is so special about metho?
Calcium carbonate - 3kg $9.60 (plaster of paris) Calcium Carbonate = Additive to cements or most widely known as Limestone (still useful:))
Calcium Sulfate = Plaster of Paris

Some OTC items will be stated as pure, yet there is almost always a few percentage of impurities. This should be noted in some chemistry applications (incompatibilities).
Keep up the good work blindreeper. I'm sure many of the au members appreciate the time you took to document your findings.

My apologies if it seems I am ridiculing you. I'm not too well at the moment. No harm is intended.

Regards

[yt2095]

just a quick post for any UK based campers,

the camping shop on Shell Island sells Gelert "going on an adventure" Hexamine tabs in packs of 8 for £2.49. it`s made localy in Wales and is pure hexamine, the only impurities aint added ones, it`s just factory/machine dirt >.01% (a filter would soon sort that :)

[knowledgehungry]

I believe he is going to distill it for drinking purposes. I would distill it at least 3 times than feed it to a cat, homeless person or some such animal to see if its good, preferrably the latter as its a human so results will be more similar :)

[blindreeper]

I woudl distill it more than 5 times before feeding to a cat.

Unlucky about the plaster of paris - I suppose I don't know my OTC chems that good :(
And with the isocyanuric acid it was labled as 1000g/kg so I think it's tech grade. IIRC it is used in the synthesis of one of the precursors in FOX-7?

I am going to go to a pool store to try and find some NaBr cause in bunnings I found some whacked out chlorobromo shit that I couldn't even pronouce :p

Well I think 2 mistakes isn't that bad and t was hard because I was trying not to get kicked out of the store for writing down prices like mega said he did.

[Trinitrotoluene]

I have a question about OTC acetylene

Today I went to the hardware store and picked up a bottle of acetylene. It said MAPP gas which means methy acetylene propadiene stablized. Is there any difference between the one I have and the kind found at welding shops what are acetylene I just obtain at the hardware store? I remember the ones found at welding places contain acetylene and acetone as a stabilizer.
I looked at the back label and it said 44% methyl acetylene-propadiene 56% liquefied petroleum.

[nbk2000]

MAPP and acetylene are entirely different chemicals, and not at all similiar. Your hardware store bottle of MAPP is NOT acetylene, regardless of the presence of the word "acetylene" in MAPP.

Also, it's impossible to seperate ethanol from methanol for purposes of drinking, via distillation. It forms a constant boiling point mixture (azeotrope) that is impossible to break into seperate components. That's why it's called denatured, and they tell you on the can that it cannot be made safe to drink, because that's true.

Now, if your purpose was to fuck off some winos, then mixing methanol with ethanol would be the way to do it, because there's no difference in taste in the two, though methanol is toxic and causes blindness/death. :)

[0EZ0]

If high purity gases are items that you are after, then a specialist gas supplier is the best place to visit. Usually these kind of businesses sell bottled natural gas or welding gases as their main product. But most likey they will have many others available also. Only ever go looking for gases in a commercial chain store if that is the only possible way for you to purchase what you need. Businesses that sell gases for industrial needs have a far better product and it's usually available at alot lower price than is normally found at your run-of-the-mill hardware store.

Just to re-affirm nbk's comment on distilling denatured ethanol, open the page below and scroll down to 'Denatured Methanol'. It explains what is added and why it is almost impossible to remove.

http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm

[nbk2000]

Wal-Mart, boating section:

Cadmium Sulfate in Minn Kata lead-acid battery conditioner. 6 oz liquid bottle for $12

+++++++++++

Hammet's Learning World, magnet section:

Steel tumbler media. (See attached picture)

Tube about the size of an adult thumb for $2 (free if you stole it like I did :p) Just the thing for tossing into the rock tumbler full of nitrate. :) Would also make for interesting fragments.

+++++++++++

Sears, water treatment section:

Sulfamic acid, used as descaler for distillers.

+++++++++++

Pool supply store

Sodium Bromide, technical grade, 2 oz packet, $2.80. Big honking 5 pound tub...don't ask. :(

Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), tech grade, 3 oz bottle, $5. Just the thing for making Golden powder. :)

Baquacil, of course, a gallon worth. What ever shall I do with it all? ;)

Also found this product called "Fresh n' Clear" that has Potassium Peroxymonosulphate in it. $2 per pound.

I got a copy of the MSDS from the pool store and the product contents are as follows:

K Peroxymonosulfate, 34 - 43%
K Bisulfate, 18 - 23%
K Sulfate, 23 - 29%
K Peroxydisulfate, 2- 3%
Na Carbonate, 0 - 20%
Mg Carbonate, 1 -2%

If I'm not mistaken, aren't monopersulfates used in making pirahna fluid with sulfuric acid?

[yt2095]

here`s an interesting chem that MAY be usefull in plasticizing of MEKP or NG etc...
Poly Acryl Amide.
it`s bought from gardening centers, it`s function is to be mixed with peat/soil in hanging baskets and the likes, things that may dry out quickly.
it`s a beige colored opaque porus crystaline substance ranging in size from fine sand to a matchhead in each pack, it`s is cappable of absorbing 400 X its own weight in water and still remain a solid (albeit gell like).
100 grams costs approx £2.

finely powdered it makes a great "holder" of liquid, may even have dessicant properties (untested).
the thought of "capturing" a solution and allowing it crystalise inside the PAA maybe also interesting for stabilising stuff, a bit like sawdust and NG.

I`ll keep looking :)

[Mr Cool]

I just did a little experiment with that gel. I used Wilkinson's brand, I suppose the same stuff is used in all brands though.
100g of AN (prills, fresh from the bag) was put in a bowl in a water bath, and water was added a little at a time until all the AN had dissolved. It was saturated at 82*C, it would've been hotter but I slipped when adding the water.
Then 2.5g of the gel grains were added, but they gelled up very little. Just very slightly on the surface. I got bored after heating and stirring it for 15 minutes and gave up. I stirred the solution as it cooled, and it seems that enough gel actually dissolved to make the resulting room-temperature mush very slightly gelled, but the grains themselves hardly absorbed anything. The dissolved gel also seems to have made the AN crystals smaller than usual, but they are still quite grainy.
I was wondering if it would work to form the gel matrix in Tovex and similar mixtures. Also, I thought that maybe if the hot, saturated AN soln was absorbed into the gel, then when it had cooled, perhaps you could dessicate it to leave a low density, very finely porous bloack of AN, held in place by a fine framework of the gel (which no doubt is flammable to some degree, and could act as a sensitiser).
But it appears that neither could be made to work.
I thought maybe the high temp was to blame by altering the gel's properties, like when a protein is denatured, but the grains could gel in boiling water.

[yt2095]

Hmmm.. it`s quite possible then that the PAA crystals are ONLY water sensitive, and maynot allow the absorbtion of ions? (sorry if it wasted some chems).
maybe when people add salt to "wet"2 NG to dehydrate it, PAA would do a better job? or maybe it`s entirely useless? I don`t know, all I do know is being rather impressed seeing this little crystal swelling to huge proportions after sitting in the bottom of a test tube for a 20 mins.
kind of figured it maybe usefull for something? :)

[nbk2000]

Pour it in a cars radiator and watch it turn the cooling system into Jell-O. :D

[blindreeper]

Ok I think I have contributed to this thread a bit so now I don't feel so bad about asking a question.
Has anybody found a nation wide store in Austalia that sells battery electrolyte. I am in desperate need for some H2SO4, with a 3L Duran beaker boiling is no problem. I have found 30% HNO3 for fertilizer so I can boil that to azertope (sp?) which will be good for most applications. %115 for 15L so thats about 6 or seven L of good stuff.
Any where else I can get H2SO4 like a farm supply if so what is it sold as?

My friends dad has a catalogue of all stuff that the council/farmers/agricultural places sell thicker than the yellow pages so I am going to give that a go.

[yt2095]

this may help, it`s how I got mine.

Find a place that supplies fork lift truck batteries, they`re always having the acid changed and batteries topped up etc...
I phoned them up (yellow pages) and gave them a story...

I`ve got an empty car battery that I`ve been storring outside with water in it, It`s been there for years while I`ve been building my solar panel array up. now it`s finished, could I bring my battery around for a topup.

Sure he says, but I don`t think it`ll work :(

Oh? say I, well If I just bring, a bottle for the acid as long as it doen`t cost too much (note instant subject change) I`ll at least give it a try. what kind of bottle do you recomend?

blah blah blah (keep chatty with him/her)Ok, I`ll see you in about half hour *Click*

he sold me a 2L plastic pop bottle of 40% H2SO4 for a pound :)
with the option that I can go back anytime when I finish my home made accumulator in my 20 gallon fish tank :D

1, forklift suppliers
2, keep them chatting and sound interested in THEM (you catch more flies with honey than a riffle)
3, have a convincing story beforehand and ask like you expect to be told YES, no problem Sir :)


hope this helps, it worked for me :)

[blindreeper]

Just for Austeralian people I have put up pics of some of my chems and where I got them here (http://www.geocities.com/blindreeper_chemistry/chemicalsynth.html)

[blindreeper]

Good news guys I just finished my survey of Action supermarkets.

Dextrose/glucose - 1kg $2.95
Acetic acid (5%) - 2L $1.22
Gelatin - 50g $0.81
Citric acid - 75g $1.91
Tartaric acid - 75g $2.58
NaHCO3 - 1kg $2.29
24 pack of Aspirin (300mg tablets) - $1.09
Glycerin - 200ml $6.82
Castor oil - 200ml $5.11
NaHSO4 100% (bunnings stuff is only like 87%) - 2kg $11.95
4% Ammonia - 2L $3.02
NaOH 98% - 500g $2.96
Napthalene 99% - 3.75g $2.39

I don't know if anyone finds them useful but I think they all have their own uses in our hobby.

Also I found at bunnings a 100m wireless door chime for $100 :eek: (it's not gonna happen) but at Action I found an 80m range one for $15 :D So I know i'll be doing some electrical work in the not to distant future!

Hope this helped some one. I think bunnings and Action are the main type of stores we look at so if there are any Australian members that would like to request a survey of a chain store post here and I'll do my best!

[frogfot]

Today I tryed to purify ethyl acetate (acetone free nail polish). I dryed 50 ml with K2CO3, filered and destilled until there was 5 ml left. The remaining slightly yellow liquid had a boiling point of 130*C!.. destilled too much, I'm guessing that given nail polish have some heavy oil additives that prevent skin from drying out..
Fractional column would be handy and I don't have it... Any suggestion on how to remove theese oils easier?

[Marvin]

Being a solvent for oils no acidic or basic properties, I doubt you will find an easy way to extract ethyl acetate without distilling.

Ethanol and methanol dont form az mixtures with each other, so seperation is theoretically possible. Unfortunatly the vapour curves are very closely in proportion and very good reflux stills need to be used to get a reasonable seperation, let alone to be good enough for drinking.

[FireFly]

I didn't check to see if any of these were listed, but here are some more...

These may be found at any place that sells chemicals for wine/beer making.

Citric Acid
Calcium Carbonate
Glycerin
Lactic Acid
Potassium Sulfate
Sulfur
Sodium Hydroxide

~NP

[peterthesmart]

Since this thread has become so large, I had an idea of either me or someone else making a chart or something of that sort with all the chemicals and stores they could be found at and maybe even prices. If you think you might like this idea, let me know and I'd be happy to get started.

[rooster]

If so, how are you going to divide it into parts? By country? I think that would be a good idea then.

[peterthesmart]

The only way i've figured out to solve this problem is using a spreadsheet in Excel. I can create a different book in the same file for each country. Currently my setup has the chemical names going down along left the side and the store names going across on top. I will put yes or a price in the box corresponding to the store the chemical is available at. I was also considering puting a column for legitament uses of the chemical since you're unlikely to recieve it if you mention anything suspicious.

[Sparky]

I'd just like to add that you can also get dextrose from beer making places. By replacing sucrose in candy rockets with dextrose the propellant melts more easily and has generally better working properties. It burns a bit slower.

[blindreeper]

I listed dextrose in my Action Supermarkets survey... Well anyway I shot gun doing Australia so if anyone wants to help email me - blindthug@hotmail.com and have the subject as "Australian OTC" because I will miss it otherwise :p
I am going to do a hydroponics store soon...

[peterthesmart]

I've gone through this thread and added most of it to a spreadsheet. I havent figured out any other ways to organize it or make it easily searchable. The file is available at http://www.geocities.com/peterthesmart/. Currently the US and Australia contain the most info. I live in the US so some of my info from other countries might be a little sketchy. I'll be trying to constantly update it. If you find an error or would like to contribute please email me.

Edit: Special Thanks to everyone that took some of their valuable time to contribute to this thread. None of this would have been possible without your generous contributions.

[Trinitrotoluene]

Today I obtained a one quart bottle of formaldhyde, it is dyed a blue color. Does anyone know how to to purifly it and remove the dye?
I am afaid that it will affect the final reaction product which is hexamine.

[blindreeper]

I don't think it's the most user friendly way to express the information but if I finish building my press I'll be onto the Survey. Also please give credit to the people who went out and did the surveys - it's that it's hard (in most cases;)) but recognition is very appreciated.

[bobo]

In Europe, Potassium permanganate is sold in pond shops for killing bacteria or whatever, as well as 30% H2O2. Professional fish farms probably use it too, but I am not sure.
Theoretically, you should also be able to find sodium nitrite in those circles although I have no source (or need) for that yet.

I wonder whether the stuff I ordered is as useful for oxidizing as the puriss. grade in the lab. Any idea how to characterise it's quality?

BTW: I regularly use piranha solution (30% H2O2, 70% H2SO4). Would it work if potassium permanganate were used instead of H2O2?

[vulture]

It will be a very strongly oxidizing solution, but I doubt it will have the same "physical" effect on material as piranha fluid.

[Rhadon]

In Europe, Potassium permanganate is sold in pond shops for killing bacteria or whatever,...
Interesting. Supposed that you're living in Germany, do you have a brand name for KMnO4?

BTW: I regularly use piranha solution (30% H2O2, 70% H2SO4). Would it work if potassium permanganate were used instead of H2O2?
I'd be very cautious with that, H2SO4 and KMnO4 form Mn2O7, which is sensitive to shock and heat. Above 40 °C, it will decompose to MnO2 and O3 in a vigorous reaction which you wouldn't like to take place in your sulfuric acid :).

[Edit: I just noticed that different sources mention different decomposition products for this reaction - some say that they're MnO2 and O3, others say that they are MnO2 and O2.]

The reaction stated above is even more vigorous if organic substances such as ethyl alcohol are present. A very nice experiment is to make a mixture of sulfuric acid and ethyl alcohol and drop only a few crystals of KMnO4 into it.

This video (http://www.experimentalchemie.de/videos01/01/blitze.avi) demonstrates what will happen. It shows two test tubes in which the same reaction takes place, while the right one is illuminated and the left one is not.

[bobo]

Originally posted by Rhadon
Interesting. Supposed that you're living in Germany, do you have a brand name for KMnO4?

Well, I am living in the Netherlands. The stuff I ordered is listed as 'kalium permanganaat' which is simply the dutch word for the compound. They are listed as crystalline. The pond forum ppl also refer to the stuff as 'KP' without explanation and everybody understands that so I guess it's quite commonly used.

It was suggested you can buy it even at the apothecary, but I did not try that since I buy other chems there already and they might be suspicious.

Are you interested because you have trouble getting it? Omikron online sells it too, you should not have too much problems to order danger class ** chemicals from them.

About the piranha and the KMnO4: Can that first reaction go out of hand when there is truly very little organic material around?

[zeocrash]

About the piranha and the KMnO4: Can that first reaction go out of hand when there is truly very little organic material around?
the KMnO4 H2SO4 reaction blew up in my face last time i tried it, because a tiny amount of organic material got back into the main batch, it comlpetely burnt all the graduations off my plastic beaker. so watch out when you're making it

[Rhadon]

The pond forum ppl also refer to the stuff as 'KP' without explanation and everybody understands that so I guess it's quite commonly used. I didn't know that, so visiting a gardening center might be worth a try. Thanks.
Are you interested because you have trouble getting it? Omikron online sells it too, you should not have too much problems to order danger class ** chemicals from them. I can get it from the pharmacy, but it's quite expensive and I was looking for cheaper sources. As long as it's used for things which you are not going to ingest technical grade is fine :), but a sulfur-free product would be desirable if it's used in pyrotechny.

As for Omikron, they don't seem to like seeling ** chemicals. It reads like "Delivery to private persons only after well grounded consultation. Will only ship to companies, institutions and persons who can identify themselves as skilled to deal with these chemicals". I think I would get it from them, but I don't want to arise suspicion.

[John Ashcroft]

the KMnO4 H2SO4 reaction blew up in my face last time i tried it, because a tiny amount of organic material got back into the main batch, it comlpetely burnt all the graduations off my plastic beaker. so watch out when you're making it

What kind of plastic is the beaker composed of? It may have been the oxidized organic material.

Watch out when mixing KMnO4 with H2SO4, even if the acid is diluted. The reaction between KMnO4 and H2SO4 is highly exothermic, and HMnO4 will be produced - a corrosive and toxic violet gas (very soluble in water though) which decomposes even more exothermically. Beware of the violet volcano.

[Jackal919]

I just discovered that 40% H2O2 can be obtained as a bone bleacher for DIY taxidermy

[zeocrash]

Also please give credit to the people who went out and did the surveys - it's that it's hard (in most cases)
it'd probably be simpler just to do a genral "thenks to all the people at roguesci who contibuted"
hmm i think my beakers are made of PE. but i doubt it was the beaker that oxidised as the beaker itsself is still intact. and i've never had that effect before. i think what must have happened is that organic material got back into the mixture, the oxidation of this caused such heat that it caused the rest of the Mn2O7 to decompose violently.

[McGyver]

What are some common named stores where i can purchase glassware; thermometers, beakers, ect? Superpages always comes up with some medical labs, or stores that only sell expensive science equipment.

[zeocrash]

i'm afraid that there isn't a highstreet lab glasswear suplier.
ebay is a good source,
labx www.labx.com

also you gotta use your nut. if you see something that might be useful for your lab, take a look at it. i found a nice electronic thermometer in a cookshop -40 to 350 °C
and a nice blowtorch

[Tuatara]

There's also Farnell (http://www.farnell.com/) . Predominantly an electronics supplier, they also carry a huge range of tools and workshop equipment, including a small range of labware. Nothing too fancy - some beakers and flasks, burners, filter paper etc. And you can shop online.

[bobo]

depends on where you live of course.

I recently bought some stuff from Emergolabs in the Netherlands as an individual and they sent it by mail. They also have a store but its a grossier. Emergo is Fisher, they should be anywhere in the world. http://www.fisherscientific.com/

[McGyver]

I have recenntly broken two thermometers and am trying to figure out an alternative to buying them online. On the plus side i collected the mercury from one of them. I dont want to purchase the digital ones because they are made from plastic and have a metal tip usualy, i could place the sensor in the test tube but what a pain in the ass that would be.

[Hang-Man]

Iv ordered from www.unitednuclear.com/supplies.htm and received, among other tings, glassware, Mg ribbon, Al powder(atomized), and some NiChrome wire :D Take that customs.

As far as OTC chems where I live (Canada) I’ve found 35% H2O2, 85% Phosphoric acid, and 15% Nitric acid from a small local hydroponics store. Acetone is easy and is sold everywhere. HCL is also sold everywhere. I can buy CL from my pool store (not sure of conc, but it burns by clothes), Bromine is also available. Aside from that I've had to smuggle from the states. I’ve had the most difficulty finding Saltpeter (believe it or not). Apparently is sold as an ingredient in pickling beef but so far no luck. I found a container labeled "Safer Sulfur" (I hate it when they make things safer) if anyone knows what this is tell me, or how they buy their sulfur. If you only need small amounts of stuff ask your Chem teacher. I’ve bought small samples of odd things like Nitrates, PH test strips, and other such harmless chemicals.

EDIT: UN also sells Mg Powder :D (has anyone ballmilled Mg ribbon and lived?)

[zeocrash]

ok chlorine from the pool store is most likely to be NaOCl or some organochlorine compound.
same for bromine
the preservative in dried/pickled meats is pottassium nitrite, not potassium nitrate

[grandyOse]

calcium hydroxide is called pickling lime, used for making pickles, and found in the grocery store.

Also, someone in this thread stated that CaO (lime) was called "hydrated lime". I think that is incorrect; hydrated lime is CaOH.

I'm having a devil of a time trying to find ammonium carbonate. Can someone point me in the right direction, or give me clue as to how to make it?

[Hang-Man]

the preservative in dried/pickled meats is pottassium nitrite, not potassium nitrate

really? I've seen it mixed with suger to make smoke bombs....well I suppose nitrite would work for smoke bombs ok..

Im planing on doing somewhat of an CANADIAN OTC servay over the next few days . I'm hunting every Pool/Boat/Hydroponics/Gardening store I can find.

[Chade]

Incomplete, of course, as I've not gone out specifically for this purpose, but the UK chain stores of note, I find are:

B&Q:
H2SO4: Drain Cleaner - 91% with some purple dye
NaOH/KOH: Drain cleaner solution - Can extract KOH from this
Ammonium Chloride: Flue cleaner - White powder, presumably decent purity
Saltpetre and sodium nitrate: Flue cleaner - My fave source. It's mixed with sawdust, but can be dissolved out. You throw it on your fire, and it cleans out the flue (I bet it does! Sounds like fun chucking a handful of KNO3 on the fire!) Both types are sold in similar packaging, but it lists what type each bag is on the back.
The well known fifty odd percent Na chlorate/chloride mix - As much as you can carry. Sold in vast tubs, no questions asked.

Focus:
CaCl2: Room dehydrator refills

Most high street chemists (not including boots):
H2O2: 3, 6 and 9 volumes. 69p for 250ml at the higest conc. More than that, and you're getting ripped off.
KMnO4: 25g for under a quid.
Iodine tincture: The only way I can get it, the pissy amount of 25ml solution for less than a pound, has 2.5% KI and 2.5%I in an 89% ethanol solution.

side note: I've had great luck with chemists. Befriend them. Make a good first impression. I'm sure it helped that I happened to be wearing a suit first time I went in. They can order chemicals for you, and there's few easier ways to get stuff. For many simple things I need that clearly fall under the heading 'chemicals', but aren't too controversial, the chemist is my first stop. If you need fairly harmless stuff, but can't find it, or just don't want the hassle of a chemical supply house, then ask them. The more harmless stuff you get, the more likely they are to say yes when you need something a bit more exotic from them. It helps a lot that science is my hobby, and I've usually got a good reason/excuse for getting hold of stuff. Make your chemist live up to their name. See how much stuff you can make become OTC! (Oh, and don't get complacent and ask them for obviously impossible stuff, as the handy, simple chemical source will dry up.)

I'll edit this a little, when I next pass these stores and can grab prices from them.

[blindreeper]

OT, but putting KNO3 fertilizer prills on the fire is accually pretty cool :D When it's on the coals it gets going and the fire roars with lots of smoke and emits a blinding white light :cool:

[Chade]

Bah. Didn't get back out the day I wrote that last post, so I didn't get a chance to edit it. Here's the updated info.

B&Q:
H2SO4: £5.98 for 1L - Drain Cleaner - 91%
NaOH/KOH: about £7 for 2L - Drain cleaner solution - High concentration solution
Ammonium Chloride: 175g for 98p - Flue cleaner - White powder, presumably decent purity
Saltpetre and sodium nitrate: 100g for 74p - Flue cleaner - mixed with sawdust
Sodium chlorate weedkiller: £6.49 for 3kg or £9.98 for 6 kg - roughly 50/50 mix with sodium chloride
HCl: £3.97 for 1L - Cleaner and descaler - unknown conc.
Phosphoric acid: £2.97 for 250ml - Multi purpose descaler - unknown conc.
NaOH (sodium hydroxide): £2.57 for 500g or £3.98 for 1Kg - Caustic soda - 99% plus powder

Garden lime - £1.98 for 3kg
Meths - £1.98 for 500ml
paintbrush restorer (dichloromethane and kerosene) - £3.48 for 500ml
Nitromors - £4.18 fr 500ml

Also at B & Q:
Silicone gel - £5.98
Smoke pellets - £4.57 for 6 X 13g pellets

And at Focus: CaCl2 is £5.49 for 1.5 Kg or £2.99 for 500g

[edit: added following]
I just found a much better method for getting out that potassium nitrate, and deserve a slap upside my head for not thinking of it earlier than I did.
Once I dissolved the first pack of sawdust/nitrate mix, I looked at the filtered mix and clicked that I should just add all the other packs I had, (about 5 - 500g total) put them in a jar, and pour the nitrate solution over the whole lot. I used a cheapo cappuchino mixer (costing me £1) and stirred the whole mix up. Obviously the sawdust floated and could be skimmed off. I then decanted the liquid through the sawdust in a filter so I'm back to having the original nitrate solution, and at the bottom of the jar is left four packs worth of potassium nitrate as a nice damp powder. I could in theory chuck out everything but this powder, and still be quite up on the deal. the weight (still wet, so not accurate) of the extracted nitrate was 269g from five packs, and I still have the original pack in solution. So I reckon about 50% by weight of these packs is nitrate.

The sodium nitrate will be easier, as I want it in solution to convert it with lo-salt.

[Hang-Man]

I found a kickass (Canadian) glassware/Labware retailer, online, and they have a nice store in Toronto. http://www.e-sci.com/. a little pricy, but if you have the means...

also, if you are looking for KMnO3, check this out: http://www.pondepot.com/water_treatment/potasium.html

Edit: they aslo sell Sodium Thiosulfate: http://www.pondepot.com/water_treatment/sodium.html

[grandyOse]

I haven't seen sulfonic acid in this section, perhaps because nobody has a use for it. I found it at ACE hardware. It's a "safer" replacement for HCl for etching concrete. Why would anyone want to etch concrete, anyway?

Also scored some wire at a yard sale: FSN-9525-529-0443 nicle chromium iron alloy; temper A; Inconel 600; .041". I know this is a high temperature, chemical resistant , non-magnetic alloy. Please let me know if there is any good use for this stuff, and I'll go back and get the rest of it.

[Hang-Man]

If this site is legit I'm going to have a fuckin' aneurism....
www.expeditedchemicals.com

I'm going to put an order in tomorrow. I mean; they sell Pentaerythritol!!!! and its a Canadian site! its too good to be true. but they are selling on e-bay (thats how I found them) and people apear to be getting their shipments no problem..

[daz]

I've looked throughout the search engines (google/yahoo/altavista//) for a supplier of DMSO in Australia and am yet to find one. In the US there are quite a few suppliers (one being http://www.dmso.net/ ), however australia seems to not have any. Is there a reason for this, or does anyone know of a supplier of this chemical?

[Ezekiel Kane]

Hang-Man: Let us know how that turns out. Pentaerythritol for sale? THERE's something you could never get at United Nuclear. =]

daz: Huh. That's funny, when I used google I came up with plenty of suppliers who appear to ship worldwide. I suppose my "Internet" just isn't broken or something.

[daz]

yes i realise that they ship worldwide, however I was specifically looking for an australian supplier, as importing stuff into aus can....have it's difficulties at times (especially chem related).

[blindreeper]

What use does DMSO have? Exotic solvent?

[zeocrash]

yeah, i believe it's also used as a muscle rub for horses

[Milamber]

If you can find a place that sells stuff for horses you're almost certain to find DMSO. I know for a fact I've seen it in "Saddleworld", and they have stores all over the place (check out www.saddleworld.com.au)

And yes, it's a fairly common polar aprotic solvent for O-Chem. Less toxic than things like DMF, but not always a suitable substitute.

[wrench352]

When I use DMSO,I will mix certain meds like cortizone or phenylbutazone with it.The meds will be absorbed directly through the skin,to the trouble area.Any tack shop or saddalry will sell it too you no problem.I am told anecdotally(I dont believe it) it also has anti-inflammitory and rapid healing properties.Its also used in sweats alot.

[Unknown]

Hang-Man,
I would be very careful with that place! They conveniently just happen to sell a lot of chemicals that are used to make "certain things". Their site looks as if it was expediently thrown together and they advertise on e-bay (not many chemical companies advertise on e-bay, if any). I may be wrong, but when I went to that site, I got a really funny feeling and a bunch of red flags went up!

[Hang-Man]

Yes, I know, I got the same flags. That’s why I haven’t ordered yet. They only sell the "red" chemicals. If they were just a chem supplier that sold those chems among other things then I would not be so skeptical... I think I will put in an order anyway- this hobby is all about taking risks; I just can’t pass up the chance to get so much in one place! PE is a bitch to make and PETN kicks ass.

[Unknown]

Hang-Man,
If you check out the ETN thread in "high explosives" i think you will find a suitable replacement for PETN. A friend ordered some Erythritol from a health food company online ( 4.5lbs/@2Kg) for $8.00. I found lots of suppliers by search engine. My friend made some ETN and was not dissappointed, as it is similar to PETN. The only other chems you need are 98% H2S04 (which you can get as drain opener at some hardware/janitorial supply places), and KN03.

[knowledgehungry]

I believe i have found a new source of high% H2O2. Forgive me if it has already been mentioned. Its wood bleach, its a 2 part kit, one is a solution of NaOH the other is a solution of unknown concentration H2O2, however it has warnings such as mixing with combustible substances may result in fire, indicating a higher%. It is made by klean strip. I'll call their questions hotline once the week starts. 8$ for both, about 3/4 L each.


EDIT: Same product different brand is 35% H2O2 so :D. This can be found in home depot so NO ONE can bitch about not being able to get it. *waits for KEWLS to blow off hands*

[daz]

thanks for this source, however after looking around and most suppliers, it looks as though the chemical is distributed in a gel form. Now my question is is there another source, or is it possible to distill the DMSO from the gel?
In regards to distilling it, a quick look at an MSDS for it has me worried as it's BP is 189 (degrees celcius) however theres a little warning also stating that "Prolonged heating above 150(degrees celcius) can cause rapid, exothermic decomposition". And due to the fact that the products of decomposition of DMSO are sulfur oxides this isn't really a good thing....

[Chade]

Funny you should say that. I've just seen a cleaning product in an obscure little pound shop called Astonish 'oxy-gen'. It had the big old oxidising warning symbol on, so I picked some up just in case. (400g containers)
It says, on closer inspection that it contains 'Disodium carbonate, Hydrogen peroxide 2:3.
The contents are a white powder, and I've no idea what this really is, but it may be that it's a possible source of peroxides. It's just sitting about at the minute, but anyway, here's their website: http://www.astonishcleaners.com/mainframe_ns.htm
Anyone think it'll be useful? I'm looking mostly at UK members, 'cause they'll only ship to the UK from their site.

[blindreeper]

Ok this is just a test. I have compiled a pdf with the help of the Forum members static_fly and byran (aka budget pyro). They contributed most of the pictures and I pulled the whole thing together.
It has the bunnings survey in a table and the action survey in a table. Then it has pics of a fair few chemicals and a very general idea on where to get them.
If you guys like it I will continute to get more chemicals and put more detail into the descriptions eg: chemical formulae, other names ect

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I will add more chemicals such as napthalene, Na2CO3, NaOH, NM ect but I will only do this if you want me to because it will jsut waste my time if no one wants it.

[blindreeper]

Ok guys no one seems to have responded to this, but since I have already got a 30 page document on the subject of Australian OTC I will continue. But please if you can help me with pictures of chems contact me at blindthug@hotmail.com with the subject as "OTC"

And to add to this thread, the forum member "Anath" has helped me and I give full credit to him but you can get magnesium nitrate in some gardening stores. The picture is his aswell.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/431717/Mgnitrate.jpg

[Cyclonite]

I found the cheapest price for internet H2O2 35% on a garden of eden health website, they also sell on E-bay. Just search for hydrogen peroxide on e-bay. 1 gal 35% $27 (US)

[flash619d]

Originally posted by Cyclonite
I found the cheapest price for internet H2O2 35% on a garden of eden health website, they also sell on E-bay. Just search for hydrogen peroxide on e-bay. 1 gal 35% $27 (US)

At a pool supply place(Leslie's pool and spa), I can get a gallon of 27% for ~$15.

[Hang-Man]

I got my H2O2 (35%) from a hydroponics store, they also sold nitric acid (only 15% though)

[nzrockets]

hi
does anyone from NZ have anything to contribute, i should have a site up soon with a list of chemicals i have found.

[Mendeleev]

I can't really add anything to this thread, which hasn't already been said, and which I have just finished reading after 2 hours. I can confirm the fact that acetone, xylene, and HCl are sold and Home Depot and Toluene at Sherman Williams. Static_firefly on the first page suggested sigma-aldrich as a good chem supplier. This is true, you can get virtually any chemical or piece of lab hardware, however they don't sell to individuals and don't deliver to residences. I know because I sent the manager an e-mail asking about it. Furthermore, in the very first post mega said formaldehyde was found at Wal-Mart. Is that true; I never figured Wal-Mart would sell something like that. What purity is it, and does anybody know what brand it goes under? Mega also mentioned ethyl alcohal at various places such as drug stores. How pure is this ethyl alcohal because the most I could find is 70% isopropyl. On the second page blindreeper mentioned denatured alcohal being 96% ethyl and 4% methyl, he called it "metho". Is this right blindreeper; because I have a gallon jug of Crown (I love crown, they have acetone, xylene, and denatured alcohal) brand denatured alcohal in my garage, and I would like to know if it is really 96% ethyl. Most people said you could get sulfuric acid, about 90%, at hardware stores and I have found two brands of sulfuric acid at Lowes, one of which is called Drain Flow Inhibited Sulfuric Acid made by Roebic. However on the back of both bottles they said it contained about 10 different buffers to prevent heat generation. This would make the acid quite impure and crappy to use if trying to make nitric acid or nitroglycerine. Is there anyway to purify it? Most people say boiling sulfuic acid for an hour is enough, but this is assuming a low concentration solution of H2SO4 and water, not 10 other buffers...

BTW, all you people in Australia are really lucky, I would probably shit my pants if I saw nitric acid sold in the U.S. in stores OTC. I had a guy start asking me questions if I was trying to build a bomb because I bought a blow torch oxygen tank and Lowes. What an ass...

[flash619d]

Mendeleev:
Reasonably pure(95%) ethanol can be bought at nearly any liquor store as everclear or pure grain alcohol. As for sulfuric acid, I would just boil battery acid to the appropriate concentration. It can be bought at NAPA for ~$15/5gal. The acid I saw came in a 5 gallon plastic bag with a rubber hose to dispense.

[blindreeper]

Yes that is correct about the 96% Ethanol and the rest being methanol.
Here is a pic of the methylated spirits we get in Australia. The picture belongs to the Forum member Bryan

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-10/431717/methylatedspirits.JPG

[0EZ0]

Alot of people seem to be under the misconception that denatured ethanol or methylated spirit only contains a high percentage (96%) of ethanol and the rest being methanol. This is not the case. Methanol is only part of the denaturant in the spirit. The others are usually pyridine, isopropanol, ethyl acetate and wood naptha groups that are also added/made during the manufacturing process. Some american companies even put unleaded petroleum in their formulations.

There are very hard to remove (impossible by normal distillation) toxins that are always added to untaxed ethanol to make it unbearable and poisonous to consume. Due to the many different additives that can be used, it is hard to pinpoint an exact formulation for each brand without a MSDS or other fact sheet. Recochem will not disclose any infomation in their MSDS to unregistered customers, so I can't tell you exactly what is in that bottle you show. Only that it has a max of 96% Ethanol and the rest being denaturants and water.

[blindreeper]

Well it will work for most applications but if you are a purity freak you may want to try a hydroponic shop because they sell 99% ethanol (rest is water I assusme) in a oil extraction fluid product. You could use this for MF synthesis but it becomes expensive at $30/L :eek:

[0EZ0]

Yes, for most applications it will work. But I wouldn't put drinking it on the list of things to do with it, even after attempts to distill/purify it:D.

$30 a liter is actually quite cheap for taxed alcohol. Consider the average 750ml bottle of 50% Vodka is about 25-35 AU dollars depending on quality. Not only that but vodka also has a high percentage of methanol as an impurity during fermentation. So you aren't paying too much at $30 per liter, even though the bulk of what you are paying for is tax.

Ferment and distill your own ethanol if you are going to make fulminates. That is if it isn't illegal in your area.

[Tuatara]

If you want ethanol, make it. Sugar + yeast + 1week will get you to 16% Ethanol. Distill with a good refluxing still to get to 95%. Filter with activated carbon to remove residual fusels, esters, amines etc. Costs about NZ$2 a litre. And of course you can add it to your favourtie cocktail :cool:

[Mendeleev]

Can somebogy please tell me how the hell pyrotek can be legit? They sell the most regulated, controversial, and dangerous chemicals to individuals, claiming its for the "amateur hobbyist" who likes to make rockets and fireworks. Well with the fireworks they sell you can make stuff that will level a goddam stadium. Don't get me wrong I am extremely happy I found this website, as a I am a hardcore, pyro-chemist, but I am just amazed how they can get away with selling this stuff to individuals. Are they government regualated? Will the feds bust into your house if you order 10L or nitric and sulfuric acid with glycerine, toluene, and hexamine at the same time (not that I would be stupid enough to do that)? It almost takes the fun out of breaking your back to find and purify OTC chemicals for making various substances. Here's an amazing list of the some of the most in demand stuff, by people on this forum, that they sell:

Pyrotek
---------------------------------------------------------------
Acids
---------------------------------------------------------------
Acetic Acid glacial 99.7%
Hydrochloric Acid 38%
Hydroflouric Acid A.C.S. 70%
Nitric Acid A.C.S. 70%
Perchloric Acid A.C.S. 70%
Phosphoric Acid A.C.S.85%
Sulfuric Acid A.C.S. 98%
---------------------------------------------------------------
Chemicals
---------------------------------------------------------------
Aluminum Powder
Ammonium Nitrate
Ammonium Perchlorate
Formaldehyde
Glycerine
H2O2 30%
Hexamine
Iron Oxide Black
Iron Oxide Red
Magnesium Powder
Nitromethane
Paraformaldehyde
Pentaerythritol
Potassium Chlorate
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Perchlorate
Potassium Permanganate
Sodium Chlorate
Sodium Nitrate
Sulfur
Toluene
Urea
Xylene

With these chemicals you can just mix n' make nitroglycerine, TNT, PETN, RDX, HMX, many primaries, thermite and several perchlorates. Fucking Amazing! :D

Edit: They have a special right now: 20 lbs. of mililtary grade potassium perchlorate for $60. That's is a damn good deal.

[blindreeper]

Well with the fireworks they sell you can make stuff that will level a goddam stadium. Don't get me wrong I am extremely happy I found this website, as a I am a hardcore, pyro-chemist
Err you idiot, if you have enough of any explosive it will level anything. As for you being a hardcore pyro you sound like some little wanna-be person.
Who cares if they are legit or not. I could get almost everything on that list right now its jsut I have no need for it and can't be bothered saving up! So why is this so special?

Also apart from the acid range skylighter sells way more stuff and they are legit.

Build a bridge and get over it! Wow you found pyrotek and think your good cause you can list all the stuff you could make with their chemicals. Yeah real cool.

With these chemicals you can just mix n' make nitroglycerine, TNT, PETN, RDX, HMX, many primaries, thermite and several perchlorates. Fucking Amazing!

I'd like to see you mix 'n' make some nitro tool, there are no explosives that you can make by just dumping into a beaker and vola. They need measuring, filtering and in most cases temperature control. The art of energetic materials is not "mix 'n' make" like some instant crappy pan cake mix, its science! So stop cluttering this thread with a total irrelivant topic. There was only one mention of OTC chemicals in your pointless post.

It almost takes the fun out of breaking your back to find and purify OTC chemicals for making various substances.

And even that didn't count for crap!

[Mendeleev]

Skylighter does not sell PE, toluene, or the like. I can also get some of the chemicals they sell over the counter, but it is not nearly as easy as ordering them, and furthermore, I realize you can't just dump stuff together, you obviously have to measure them carefully and mix carefully and follow temperature procedures, but the point I was making was that you don't have to go all over town looking for impure ingredients, then distill and purify them, before finally using them for whatever purpose you would want.

[zeocrash]

toluene / hexane can be bought OTC in the uk as evostick cleaner.
also the nitric acid sold on pyrotek is not concentrated enough to do many organic nitrations (70%)
i would flame you now but since i see you are a fan of
homestar runner (http://www.homestarrunner.com) i will refrain

[Unknown]

I just found rodent killer at the local supermarket that comes with fuzes. The brand is "the super gasser" and it is called "the giant destroyer". The stuff is made by Atlas Chemical corp. out of Cedar Rapids Iowa.
The ingredients are: Sodium Nitrate-46.2%, Sulfer-34.8%, Charcoal-8.7%, Other ingredients-10.3%.
The pack comes with 4-2 ounce circular tubes, and four 1/16 inch green visco fuzes (about 3 or 4 inches long). I live in California, so I'm not sure about availability in other states, or countries for that matter, but it's worth a try. The pack cost me about $4.

[Mendeleev]

I stopped by an Eckerds pharmacy today to buy some glycerine, which I did 119 mL for $3.35, but I also found some other stuff there: boric acid, flowers of sulfure, a solution of ammonia which was 65% alcohal and 35% ammonium carbonate and ammonia, tincture of iodine, 91% isopropyl, camphor spirits, and several other chemicals with really long names like something hexa-glucagon. Sorry if my earlier pyrotek post seemed a bit kewl, I was just excited.

[Unknown]

I was at K-Mart today (just passing time, I really don't shop there, honest) and I saw a Coleman patch kit for plastic rafts and the like. The kit contained a little bottle of toluene ( approx. 2oz) and a tube of bonder (unsure of contents). The pack was $7.99. This might be useful for those of you in California where toluene is hard to find, and you don't want to risk ordering it online. I also saw that they had little bottles of glycerin ( approx. 80gl) in the medicine section near the bandages and stuff. It was $2.99.

[Hang-Man]

People should start posting (low res) images in here. To say you found X in wallmart is about as useless as...well...its useless. I saw this yesterday while buying some Glycerine..I also saw toluene in a package similar to the one mentioned, and some Isopropyl Alcohol in a bottle labled "nubuck Supreme" (will people stop using 'alum' as short for aluminum? it clutters searches.)

[HexenLord]

Now we've listed most of the chemicals found and which stores they were found in. Now could we possibly start listing what types of products they were found in or possibly even the product names they were found in? Ive been searching through many of the stores and cannot seem to find many of the chemicals, and when I did find them it was in the most bizzare of places. I plan on taking the original list Megalomania gave and placing product names next to each of them so you can walk into wal-mart and ask for Roebic Drain Flow instead of Sulfuric Acid to decrease any suspicion that may accumulate after asking for specific chemicals instead of products.

[Jacks Complete]

Guys,

think thread is now reaching a stage of uselessness. More than half the time, it is impossible to tell even which country someone is talking about!

I propose that someone (most likely me) knock together a database system so we can actually put all this stuff into a more structured system, for easy searching. Access could be linked to username and post number, to stop lurkers and newbies who might wreck a source.

It could be hosted as part of this site, if Mega agrees.

So far, we want a system that lets us look for things by name, description, brand name, location, shop, cost, quantity, who supplied the info and when.
Perhaps typical uses, and/or notes or links to procedures.

Can anyone think of anything else?

Then, instead of this endless reading list, you could find stuff you had entered, or stuff available in your country or state, or typical costs for a liter of something, etc.

What say you?

[blindreeper]

Well Australia is on top of our work load with and OTC list :p Maybe there should be a new section "Over The Counter Chemicals and Equipment" Then have sub-topics dealing with different countries?

[warren]

I get potassium nitrate at a asian grocery store I looked every where and found it at last, I have a pic of it www.geocities.com/warren2tan/Powders.html And the other pic is of the Mg bar I got at walmart for 8$. Megalomania you said you got charcoal at homedepot are you talking about real charcoal or the charcoal clumps for the BBQ that have all the crap added to them.

[Mendeleev]

Online OTC product/chemical search:

http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/

Doesn't have everything, but some searches I have found useful:

sulfuric acid
methanol
methylene chloride
carbon tetrachloride
benzene
ammonia

[Dave Angel]

Jack's, I've started an excel speadsheet for my UK OTC survey, with each page dedicated to a different chain store. I was thinking that once I've done as much as I can in my local area, it could be forwarded to another UK member who would add to it what they could and then forward it to another UK member... and so on..

At the moment my survey includes the brand name, chemical contents, quantity and cost.

Sound like a reasonable idea? Any UK members interested drop me an email and once I've completed what I can do I'll send it round.

[blindreeper]

Pictures speak a thousand words, it would be so much better to have pics of the products instad of just telling people where to get stuff.

[Dave Angel]

I wonder what the reaction would be if someone caught you taking pictures of everything in the store!

Of course, it's easy enough to take pictures of things you've bought and I would do if I had access to a digital camera... must get one of those toys.

In fact I do have a scanner... I wonder how well bulky objects could be scanned. I'll get onto that with any OTC products I have at hand.

[streety]

If you have one of those mobile phones with a camera built into it I imagine you could take as many pictures as you wanted and nobody would even realise. Just act as if you are furiously sending text messages.

As for your spreadsheet of OTC chemicals in Britain it sounds like a great idea. I'm not able to do much in the may of chemistry at the moment so I've not really been looking but if you need any help let me know and I will see what I can find.

[blindreeper]

I had no problems going into stores and taking pictures. No reaction at all. But when your work pants have no pockets and you have to stuff the camera down your pants, THEN you get wierd reactions.

[Mendeleev]

Take pictures with a regular camera then scan those.

[Dave Angel]

I've got a nifty little camera phone, the only problem is that the uplink disagrees with my computer when I try to transfer the pictures, I can transfer onto the phone ok though... odd.

The problems with using a regular camera is the cost of the film and developing, not to mention the fact that "They" get to have a look at who uses whole rolls of film taking pictures of daaaangeeeerous chemicals.

[blindreeper]

Honestly how hard is it to borrow a friends digital camera for a day or two and hit the shelves? I did my entire pdf without owning a digital camera, granted that I got help with pictures from forum members but I got all my pictures after a while. Sure its a little frustrating at times but it works.

[Dave Angel]

Alas, I don't have a friend with a digital camera... probably something to do with me 'borrowing' his girlfriend for a night or two!

But I joke of course... mother doesn't let me have friends...

I think if the scanning idea doesn't work I may be able to grab stills from my camcorder actually, I'll look into that too.

[atlas#11]

I can get toulene, xylene, ammonium nitrate(coated), aetone, mek, denatured ethyl, h2so4, hcl31%, isopropyl alch, and alot of others pure from a agracultural supply store called big R, if any body else has one of these near buy i sugest you get your ass in there now! i havent really looked around for nitro methane but i'm sure i can find it some where in this town.

[Dave Angel]

atlas, you're not in the UK are you? 'Big R' doesn't sound very british, but you can't easily buy toluene off the shelf here. Just wishful thinking.

Anyway, scanning the products directly doesn't give bad results, and I've lowered the image quality to make the file sizes small. They don't look great but you can see what you are looking for on the shelf, and that's the important bit. Here's a few examples:

http://uk.geocities.com/nekromancerlabs/

JPEGs can be inserted into excel spreadsheets no problem so I guess just filling a page or two with pictures would be the easiest way to incorporate them into the document, and it looks like you can place internal links too, which would make it easy to link product to picture.

Have also surveyed B&Q

[Edit] crap links replaced with my fantastic html skills

[powdermunkey]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is 'stump remover' as a source of potassium nitrate. Every hardware store and garden supply store in my smallish town has it, various brands. Read the label for 'caution-contains potassium nitrate' or such.

[Jacks Complete]

Dave Angel,

I have been pretty busy, but I have knocked up a MySQL database for the inputting of results, etc. Perhaps it could be added as a new service on here? I am currently running it off my laptop, and I need to set it up with some kind of security or something, but it does the job.

Pictures are stored as image links, rather than in the DB, but it can be done either way. If anyone can tell me a way to tell between a text and a blob field, I can write a handler to put images straight into the db.

The db is very simple, but powerful. You can search on a product, and see where it is at, or you can search on a place, and see what they sell. :)

I will have to email Mega and ask nicely.

[Dave Angel]

Sounds like that's coming along, and sounds like a useful addition to The Forum, or at least on the web and in the links section (though the latter is more prone to kewl abuse if one didn't have some username and password system there too).

I've been round Wilkos (aspirin was down from 16p to 14p a pack btw) and Boots now, although I am going to double check them when I have time in case I missed anything. I'm quite impressed with Boots, you can get 40% formic acid there.

[snuk5]

Re:

The “Is it CaCl2 or NH4NO3” debate:

Why not do some crude qualitative analytical chem. (Other than trying to detonate it!)

Like CaCl2 + H2SO4 = CaSO4. (ppt.) The Calcium should precipitate as it is insoluble.

Also if you chuck some NaOH into your NH4NO3 solution, you should have some ammonia gas evolving. Can’t miss the smell.

Seems simple enough to me.

[Hang-Man]

Delete
Delete
Delete
[Is there a place we can post sources we dont want raped by Kewl newbies?]

[K'Luuppo]

Does anyone want to share a source for strong hydrogen peroxide in Finland? I buy mine from pharmacies, but it's pretty expensive (~40€/l, 30%) and I would like to know a cheap source.

[Boneless]

K'Luuppo try find swimming pool shop,they sell 30-35% Hydrogen Peroxide
within reasonable prices.

[~Phelixx~]

For the few danish members here, a danish OTC list has been created by "Kemishow", and can be found here (http://www.kemishow.dk/aarhus/kemikalier.doc) .
I'm thinking of updating it, but it depends on how many DK users the forum has.

[kooolr]

A good place local, in say SE USA- you can get 30-40% H2O2 at many beauty shop supply houses... for $2.39/qt <=$10/gal. I let a lady friend go pick it up- no questions asked!

[grendel23]

The H₂O₂ you will find in beauty supply stores in the US will be 20-40 volume, not percent. IIRC 40 volume is 12 percent.

[~Navarone~]

sup guys...this is my first post here..im honored to be member of this website.
chemical ban sucks!!!
everyday i discover that some chemical have been banned...this prohibition is starting to piss me off :mad: ....this world is becoming everyday too "peace and love" and im starting to think that anarkism is a good thing.
anyway...obtaining chemicals is not that hard(depending on the chemical)
u just need to know where to look.
a few month ago i decided to check the german ebay for some labware since the english one was pretty expensive sometimes. i friend of mine helped me with the names of the labware in german since they are really fucked up!
WOW..u guys wont even imagine what i found!!! tons and tons of labware for soo cheap!! like condenser for 2 euros...separatory funnel for 1 euro....heating stirring pad for 10 euros!!! fucking yeah!! i love germany.
they saved my life in a sense.
well once i build up my german laboratory i started to work on chemical extraction. since nowadays u alwys need some kind of permit or u will be look suspicious to the police for buyng some naturally found chemicals.....i started to separate chems from common supermarket products.
all u need is a distilling apparatus(both fractional and steam) some extractors and other common labware.
google is ur friend in this....just type a chem an look for its propeties...i mean boiling point...reactivity....solubility abd so on. i u one day just take a look at whats inside ur house cleaning preoducts by the ingredients label, u will find hell lot of scheduled chemicals!!!
example:i extracted...
phosphoric acid from wc clean
benzyl magnesium chloride from some strange disinfectant product
pure ammonia from clothes washing products.
ethyl,methyl,propy,buthyl alcohols from many sprays
and many many others....(also many organic compounds) :D
when im searching for a new chemical i just go on google and type
- ingredients "chemical name" -
voila..u have hell lots of websites on the house product that contains that chemical u want.then find its propeties and find out a way to extract it.
many chemicals , like most of u know can be simply found pure in hardware,photo,garden,pool store.
the ones u cant find...u gotta make it urself unfortunately.but still u got many chems that will help u in a lot of syntheses. and i u know..once u have more chemicals its like a chain reaction......more chemicals more available syntheses.
its gonna take lots of time,money and work but i guarantee u its worth it.
well that all i can say for now....i know that some of the thing i said where obvious.
sorry if i made any spelling or grammar mistakes, as u can understand im not english mother tongue.
well i gotta go to class in like four hours....bette go to sleep before the sun rises.
uuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!! :o c ya people
respect

-----------------------------------------------------


sorry if i made any spelling or grammar mistakes
Any??? :o
Read the rules and the unwritten rules! You're "on leave" for three weeks to do so!

Rhadon

[D.S.H.]

:confused: To begin my O.T.C. hunt for hexamine i obtaned army ration fuel bars and was suprised to find i have obtaned trioxane C3 H6 O3 insted.Ilive in a rual area and lost my driving privlages over three yrs ago,soon to be driving again, so it's hard to get around. If you have any suggestions for obtaning hexamine in other places PLEASE HELP!!!

[MightyQuinn®]

For all those folks in the great North East, we have an excellent supply of crazy things.

If you live near a Tractor Supply Company you have a wealth at you fingertips.

All in the same area you can get Tolulene, Xylene, Acetone, Naptha, Muriatic (31.45%)....on and on.

On another shelf, I found 99.9 Potassium Permanganate.

I took a couple of pictures with my phone, will upload when I have time. Shows the brand name and ingredients.

I had limited time at the store, but plan a forray back when I am on my own.

Hope this helps someone out.

[nbk2000]

TSC is in myu area too, and I found sodium chlorate weedkiller in there. :)

First place I've seen SC in more than a decade!

[nbk2000]

Found a quart of 50% malathion, the other 50% being straight xylene, for $17 at TSC.

Figure $20 per pint of the pure stuff, so $160/gallon, and after a little chemical tweaking of the molecule, possibly less than $300/gallon of OTC ersatz nerve gas. :)

Amazing what you can find if you just keep looking.

Oh, also found these neat castrator thingies, that you use to put these monstrously thick rubberbands on the nutsack of your victims so their scrout rots off. Only $20! :D

Cattle prods for interrogating your "cattle"...HUGE syringes for injecting or removing fluids...antibiotics of all sorts (used these before myself) at dirt cheap prices...on and on...;) Just all sorts of dual purpose tools and supplies for the malevolently minded.

[megalomania]

Hmm, there is a new TSC in my area... time to conduct a chemical survey!

[K9]

Has anyone actually put together anything substantial for a "Canadian OTC survey"? If not, I might do just that. There are so many things that are fairly easily obtained in the area that I live. Hexamine tablets at Le Baron, sulfuric acid (98% apparently, as shown by a titration) at home hardware, NaOH at home hardware, a litre of 35% H2O2 for 7 dollars Canadian etc. I think I may just put something together as a project.

[megalomania]

I went to TSC today and carefully examined the entire store. I didn't bring my notebook to write down prices. I found what I wanted though, iodine solutions and 99% DMSO for $5 (about 300 mL I think). There is a pesticide with arsenic in it, that is rare these days. I found that 50% malathion solution too. They don't have much in the way of pure chemicals, just herbicides, pesticides, and animal medicines. They did have a 15 pound bucket of copper sulfate for $30, but I don't remember if that is good or bad (I cheapest I can get it is $8 but I don't remember how many pounds this is, 2 or 5).

[nbk2000]

The copper sulfate price is quite cheap at $2/pound. I've seen it a little less, but that was in bulk drums. :)

They also have sodium-free salt (potassium chloride) in bulk at cheap prices. Good for turning sodium salts into potassium salts, which seem to be more reactive in most cases.

[megalomania]

My local grocery store chain has also started selling potassium chloride for water softners. It is sold as a 40 pound bag for $5 or $6. I am positive they never sold it until this past year.

[Joeychemist]

I was looking around for some cheap 35% peroxide and found this agricultural grade 35% H2O2 for a damb good price from where I’m sitting. My chemical supplier sells 500ml of 35% H2O2 for $79.99 Canadian so I don’t buy it. :mad:

But when I was buying a bag of urea from my local farm store my eye happened to notice a fifty gallon drum of 35% H2O2 sitting at the back of the store. I couldn’t believe the price I had to take a double look, the price was $260.00 they also sell 5 and 15 and gallon drums. This is an excellent price for 35% H2O2. I wish I could give a name of the store where I bought it, but it is just called the co-op.

Just walk into you’re local fertilizer store and ask for it, they should be able and willing to order you some if you’re polite. ;)

Dose any one else know where to score some cheap H2O2 OTC?

[K9]

Hydroponics stores. I'm pretty sure that most of the ones across Ontario are stocked by Homegrown Hydroponics. The best price I've seen is 7 dollars Canadian for a litre at Happy Girl Hydroponics. They also ship.

[Mendeleev]

300 mL DMSO for $5 :eek:! What type of product was it? Damn, looks like I'll have to make a 100 mile journey to my nearest TSC.

[megalomania]

The DMSO is sold as a horse linament (I think that is the word, it is for rubbing down their muscles). It can likely be found wherever horse supplies are sold.

[~Phelixx~]

While googling for any sources of DMSO at horseshops, I found out, that MSM, Methylsulfonylmethane (CH3)2SO2, is often used instead of DMSO. A site claimed it to be recovered from DMSO while heating and then recrystalize. The only info found on RS about MSM is this (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=3870&highlight=msm).

As it origins from DMSO, it should be possible to convert it back. Any thoughts?

[SweNMFan]

OTC in Sweden

DMSO 1L $40
KNO3 99,8% 1Kg $14
NH4NO3 as in instant coldpacks .. 1Kg for $15
HCl 30% 1L $6


Any Danes here ? Is Matas still a viable source for H2SO4 and HNO3 ? as
its nearly impossible to find it here nowdays..

[Mendeleev]

Be warned about OTC paint solvents, a some of them have lots of impurities. I discovered after a failed ether synthesis that my Crown brand Denature Alcohol was more like natured methanol. It's got about 65-75% methanol, 10% IPA, 10% Methyl Isobutyl Ketone, and only 10-20% ethanol. Other solvents such as xylene sometimes containe 10-15% ethyl benzene. Here is a link for the crown line of solvents and their msds's: http://www.packserv.com/Content-Public/Products-By-Brand/Page.asp?iID=1

[Ithacacian]

Largely neglected as a source of chemicals is the janitorial supply company. I have read of people citing weak nitric acid for ss cleaners and glacial acetic acid as being found in such places (I have only seen the latter to be true in the couple I've had occasion to visit), but there are others which I have found which may be useful, and in bulk:

Sodium Nitrate NaNO3
Sodium Nitrite NaNO2
50% Sodium Hydroxide/Water NaOH
50% Potassium Hydroxide/Water KOH
~30% Phosphoric Acid/Water H3PO4
~30% Hydrochloric Acid/Water HCl
Monoethanolamine
Sulfamic Acid

These are only some of the less easy to find chemicals (for some); and of course, there may be others.
Obviously these chemicals (save the H3PO4 as a delimer) cannot be bought pure in any product, and it would be uneconomical or impossible to purify them. Therefore you must ask to speak with the chemist. Your favorite story can get you the chems from there. I've found that the type of people working in such places have an empirical knowledge of chemistry for the most part (often quite good though), and so have little idea of alternate uses. I played the ignorant student who needed phosphoric and hydrochloric acid for electrolysis experiments at the first place I visited, then after glancing at the chemicals used, went to another place with the same routine and asked for a couple of the more useful ones (ie the nitrite, which I said I needed for an experiment into corrosion characteristics of steel coatings at high temperatures). Seek a modest amount and they may give it to you free of charge. Make sure you find a place that makes a substantial part of the chemicals they sell, which implies at least fair size.

[Silentnite]

DMSO can also be had at local vitamin stores. Along with conc. H202. My dad spotted those after I gave him a shopping list should he happen to go somewhere without me.

[Bozmann]

Any Norwegians here who has a OTC for sweden?
Anyone know where i can find H2SO4 here? i can order it from the drugstore but its expensive! Almost 54$ a litre!

[Blackout]

I've found oxalic acid at the grocery store.
I've also found KOH (as solution) as a glass cleaner for fireplace and wood stove, I don't remember where.
Wilson stump remover is about 95-99% KNO3, but I prefer to recrystallise it from hot water. ~$12 for 500g in a plastic bag in a green and white cardboard box.

If you live near of Ottawa, you can go to Hull (qc province) and go to a canac-marquis, there is toluene (contains also MeOH, which can distilled of (bp 65; toluene 110,6), acetone, HCl, turpentine, petroleum distillate, kerosen... I have to check again...

[tomu]

As I have found out recently foundry suppliers carry Sodium metal and white/yellow phosphorous as well as other thing like lampblack, charcoal and lycopodium powder.

The sodium metal is used to get a finer grain in Al-castings, the phosporous is used as a Flux/deoxidizer for copper and bronce castings. The lampblack and charcoal and lycopodium powders are used as parting agent for the molds.

It's no big deal ordering stuff from them and they are not concerned with other than foundry uses of this materials.

Anyway it's a good idea to have atleast some basic knowledge about metal casting and the technical terms used in the foundry trade.

[nbk2000]

Hey, Tomu, PM me with sources for what you're saying. This needs verifying. :)

[aXiate]

A great resource for chemicals such as Nitric Acid, Phosphoric Acid (85%), Boric Acid, Potassium nitrate (1,5,10, and 25kg packs), Ammonium nitrate (up to 25kg packs), Calcium Nitrate, Copper Sulphate, etc. is http://hydroponics.co.nz

everything is at a reasonably cheap price and they ship to all parts of New Zealand.

[nbk2000]

Home Depot is discontinuing sales of Green Light Stump Remover (AKA KNO3).

Also, I've read that ATF and Consumer Protection have passed rulings saying that oxidizers and metal powders are no longer available without an explosives manufacturer's license.

Not that it's going to stop us...;)

[corrosive]

I'm curious, was that stump remover actually a good source of Potassium Nitrate? I remember reading that it had a binder in it, that would mess with reactions and really slow them down, and it was hard to remove. That does really suck though, stump remover is a good source for smoke compounds, if you think about it KNO3 isnt really a strong oxidizer. I bet their slowly removing the harmless chemicals that you can get over the counter. So then when the time comes they can remove all the really good stuff, so it will actually effect us buyers.

But as of now, this isnt a real big removel. I mean if your using this stuff to make 75:15:10 powder why waste your time when you can get a nice bottle of the stuff OTC at a gunshop.

BTW does this concern ALL of the current Home Depots. There are probably areas where there are basically no improvised weapon crimes, pipe bombs or anything of that nature, would suck if they actually just remove this from the stock of all the Home Depots....well if you think about it...not really, you can walk across the street to Lowes....or Eagle Hardware...:)

[mil&co]

I searched the forum on various terms, but it didn't come up with the OTC source I found for nitric acid.

Here in Holland we have these shops for the home growers of marihuana. One of their products is a PH regulator which contains 38% nitric. Here it costs 5 Euro, I guess that's about 6,5 dollar.

It is called PH- Growth (PH- Groei in Holland), and is sold throughout Holland, a large part of Europe and Australia. http://www.canna.nl/langselect/index-en.php
Enter the site, click on products, aditives, PH regulators, PH- Growth to see the product. I couldn't hotlink directly to the product, excuse me.

[D-Fens]

Was at a pet store today, didnt get looking through everything but some of the stuff I found:
98% Potassium Chlorate under the name Fish Tank Oxygenating Tablets $0.60 for one small box(not sure of weight)
Granulated Charcoal $3.00 for 1kg
Isopropyl Alcohol $4.00 for 500ml

[Meawoppl]

Hey mega, in one of the first posts, you metioned that wal-mart sells "lead balls" what are they sold as? I really want a local source for those b/c ording ball mill lead balls online is a definate indicator that you are making explosives ;p

[c.Tech]

They are sold as fishing sinkers here.

Use the lead balls which are reinforced with antimony, if any, or use brass.

Brass and other non-sparking balls are better than lead because they don’t release lead into the final product making it, and the gasses it lets off a hazard.

It isn’t a clear indicator when buying lead balls that your ball milling for explosives or pyrotechnic devices, there are other uses for them, just have an excuse ready incase your asked.

[megalomania]

The lead balls are sold for muskets in the sporting goods section. I think they may have brass coated ones too.

[Jokkebrok]

Does anyone know a good shop like unitednuclear that ships worldwide, i live in the Netherlands.

[megalomania]

I do believe United Nuclear is unique in all the world... Maybe there is something better, but who can say?

[texaspete]

Jokkebrok, maybe this site?

http://www.kno3.com/view_category.asp?cat=34

[c.Tech]

Jokkebrok, maybe this site?

http://www.kno3.com/view_category.asp?cat=34

I wouldn't trust it, looks like another fed website to me...

[megalomania]

Ah ha, I knew that website looked familiar! kno3.com is identical to thechemicalshop.com. The picture of their lab is the dead giveaway since they are the same. Why would a company have two different websites, each with a different company name? Could it be they need separate identities to build up trust before the busts? Perhaps they are both scam sites set up by some idiot who is one iodine sale away from having his door kicked in.

Something is clearly wrong with this picture. Avoid both like the scammer/fed sites they are!

[texaspete]

I think you're right about kno3.com megalomania. Notice the links page
http://www.kno3.com/infopage.asp?page=11
Almost all of those links go to kno3.com.

Is this really a government trap? Why would the goverment go through all that trouble and list all of those chemicals? Or is it just a plain, old fashion, take-your-money-and-never-send-a-product scam?

Either way, I'm sure the government would take notice if you bought 35% hydrogen peroxide, hexamine, and citric acid in one order.

[deadman]

The owner of that site posted here before. He was asking if his fertilizer KNO3 was good enough to use in food. He claimed a customer wanted to use it in cooking and then said he believed that was the customers alibi though.

When I say "he" it is just a generalization of the recalled poster and does not mean I know the person's gender.

[c.Tech]

Can you give the persons name? I really want to take a look at his posts.

[megalomania]

Potassium nitrate can and has been used as a preservative for food stuffs. Its use would be prevalent in those old world pre WWII canning and survivalist recipes. I think you use a lot of it to cure meats, especially where there is no refrigeration.

I doubt straight fertilizer would be suitable for food use, but it can be easily purified by recrystallization.

[nbk2000]

Are you sure it was the Nitrate (NO3) and not Nitrite (NO2)?

Because I know nitrite is used as a preservative because it is oxygen-hungry, scavenging up the oxygen that would otherwise spoil the food.

[megalomania]

Nitrate is the stuff the old timers used, nitrite is for modern preservatives. As I said, you find the nitrate mentioned in the old recipes.

As use of salt as a meat preservative spread, a preference developed for certain salts that produced a pink color and special flavor in meat. This is the effect we see in cured meats today. Near the turn of the (19th) century it was determined that nitrate, present in some salt, was responsible for this special color and flavor. Still later it was determined that nitrate actually is changed to nitrite by bacterial action during processing and storage and that nitrate itself has no effect on meat color. Today the nitrite used in meat curing is produced commercially as sodium nitrite.

[Dawg]

Just discovered KCl for water softeners at my local Albertson's grocery store-40# for $7.49 USD. Pelletized, no binders listed on bag. Sure saves on shipping...DMSO 99+% purity available at a Murdoch's farm and ranch supply in veterinary section, 16 oz. for $6.99USD. They sell iodine crystals there also for veterinary use but require ID to purchase-didn't have a chance to price it yet-...Toluene, technical grade at Ace hardware stores, $15.99/gallon-

[Dawg]

Anyone needing lab equipment or glassware and who is within reaching distance of Portage, MI/Cleveland, OH really ought to check out this auction-this link is to a picture of one [1] lot of glassware containing ~ 700 pieces...[drool...]-there are 500+ lots, some with reserves, some not-everything from stirrers/ovens/baths/gas chromatographs/HPLC/DNA sequencers-you name it, it's for sale here. Online auction starts 9/19 0600 PT-BEWARE the 16% buyer's premium...

'http://www.dovebid.com/assets/display.asp?ItemID=tbd262739'

Pretty sure this link will work for anyone but possibly since I registered and received a cookie you might not be able to view without also registering-if so,

http://www.dovebid.com/default.asp

[DMSOnMyVeins]

Silk screen printing suppliers sell something called emulsion remover which may contain sodium periodate.

I worked for a T-shirt printing company when I was in college and we used an emulsion remover that was pure sodium periodate. One day I was bored and by myself so I ignited a small sample and it burned like BP by itself.

The company I worked for was a small business, we used maybe 2-3lbs a month.

Also, Wal-mart sells a carpet stain remover that contains HF. A couple of years ago I purchased some and I noticed the label said not to let the solution contact the skin because some special treatment is necessary if it does, and the only active ingrendient listed was hydrofluoric acid (no concentration).

I poured some into a test tube and the solution was clear. The bottle is brown and the same size and shape as a medium bottle of coppertone suntan lotion.

I no longer live near a Wal-mart or I would post the name, etc.

[nbk2000]

WINK rust and stain remover is what you saw in Wal-Mart.

It's a 6% solution of HF in water.

[Red Beret]

Where I live in Australia, glycerine has dissapeared off the shelves. Used to be in supermarkets, but not anymore. Could make my own I guess.

[c.Tech]

It could be just a product that isn’t worth stocking because people might not use it as much as they did.

I doubt that it would be taken down to prevent terrorists from making nitro-glycerine, it's not that much of a risk to the sheeples safety is it?

[nbk2000]

I think it just as likely to be because of government restriction, as any lack of sales.

[Red Beret]

Yes, could be either way. Probably the government taking advantage of the fact that not a great deal of people use it, so no one will really care if it's gone.

They want to put restrictions on all sort of things here. Mundane stuff that terrorists probably wouldn't use anyway, such as potassium permangenate and the like. I can just imagine; Some terrorist top dog sitting in a cave in some fucked up middle eastern shit hole saying "Oh no, they've banned potassium permagenate and hair bleach in Australia, we can't carry out attacks!?" :rolleyes:

Has anyone made glycerine? Is it pure enough for nitro?

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Just thought I'd quickly throw out:

'http://undrug.org/vdb/'

Vendor database, oh yeah. :)

(searchable, not browsable)

[Alexires]

I found a source of various things in Aus

Glycerine 1L - $23.95
Dextrose 25kg - $50.00

Ascorbic Acid 1kg - $7.50
Citric Acid 1kg - $14.50
Malic Acid 1kg - $26.00
Tartaric Acid 1kg - $29.95

Bentonite Clay 1kg - $9.35

If you want to know where to find any of these, PM me.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

Why don't you just post the place instead?

[random136]

Why don't you just post the place instead?

Why don't you just read this whole thread instead?

We don't post sources publicly because that's the best way to shut them down. This happened on many occasions in the past, sources were posted and some irresponsible idiots drew unwanted attention to the said sources.

It makes it very difficult to operate a legitimate business when the majority of your costumers are people sharing in our hobbies. Sources are given out to trusted members, who we are sure will not make fools of themselves when ordering. If members are subtle and responsible, sources keep stocking the desired products, and unwanted attention is not attracted.

If we frivolously make good sources publicly known, it could be as easy as any of the many LEO's browsing these forums making a direct link between us and the said sources and shutting them (the sources) down (or forcing them to stop stocking particular items).

High demand does not make for better business when it comes to these sources.

[Cobalt.45]

I can understand the desire to hoard good suppliers, but consider the following:

I am, a dumb- assed newbie who is looking to impress his grade school dropout buddies.

I PM the above mentioned poster, get the info, and away I go.

It makes little difference whether the info is posted directly, or requires a PM to get it.

The only ones you'd be depriving, are the strokes who're too lazy to PM.

Most purveyors of anything would gladly increase their business. And, they would rather be the one who made the decision on who to sell to.

As long as the businessman is following the rules and has his ass covered.