Use of impure NP solvents...

Sektor · Mon May 23, 2005 1:03 pm

Hi All,

swim was wondering that if it could be acceptable to apply the use of NP solvents in a pfed reduction post workup, that is NP's that arent completly pure i:e swim can buy whats called 'paint and roller brush cleaner' which contains bout %80 xylene and %20 isopropynol alchohol, or 'brake cleaner' (which contains heaps of other crap as well as the tetra) for the extraction of pfed itself. is it ok to use these straight without any attempt of purification(or drying)? just so swim dosent phuck his A/B extraction so forth.

many thanks,

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Xylene can be shaken with plenty of H2O (xylene is immiscible with water) to remove the isopropyl alcohol (=miscible with water), but you should try and get some purer solvent if you can, maybe petroleum ether (ligher refill fluid) or some kind of naphta solvent are available to you?

As for the brake cleaner, I don't know - sorry. But I guess since brakes work best without anything on them, the brake cleaner is fairly pure solvent without additives, which could leave a residue when evaporating the solvent...

Sektor · Tue May 24, 2005 10:35 am

swim wonders if perhaps the distillation of the iso from xylene could be possible? (paint brush and roller cleaner containing %80 xylene and %20 Iso) because the iso has a lower bp than xylene.. as with the extraction of tetra from brake cleaning cannisters, could anyone perhaps post a method, many thanks

loki · guinea pig

i would have thought that ipa would mostly boil out of the xylene, as would be evidenced by monitoring solution temps.

but seriously, it is not that hard to get 100% tradesman grade toluene if you look a bit harder. some hints: cleanup solvent for glues used on vinyl flooring, octane boosting agent for motor racing nuts (especially drag racers, of course along with nitrous). by my personal definition this crude toluene isn't exactly 'pure' solvent either, but it works great, and especially in 20L drums is cheap as shit.

Sektor · Wed May 25, 2005 10:19 am

How bout the actual drying of the NP's? does this require the use of Epsom salt? how would swim go about preparing the Epsom salt to dry the NP and the amount say per 500ml of Xylene/Acetone etc? any swit out there with a table perhaps?
thanks again

loki · guinea pig

drying MgSO4 - baking it in the oven with a loose cover is the usual way (without the cover it often will end up dumping a heap of bits on the bottom of the oven).

drying xylene/IPA is not gonna get it clean of the solvents, and a little water present is not going to change the separation of them by boiling, xylene does not azeotrope with water but ipa does a little, probably not technically azeotrope just cos of near boiling points... in fact adding water, for that reason, may be more desirable.

i just had a probably dumb thought - what about oxidising the IPA into isopropionic acid, that should happen more readily than any attacks on the xylene i should think...

and i must emphatically, again, reccommend the further search of solvent sources, at the very least, pure xylene is easy to get, and usually cheaper than that blend, IPA is a damn expensive chemical all things considered, compared to methanol and xylene and toluene.

Sektor · Wed May 25, 2005 12:20 pm

Swim has found a source for %100 Xylene/Acetone, which recently those chems have been made trade items therefore one cannot obtain these chems(of pure percent) without a trade liscence..... bumma. Swim was just wondering about the drying of the NP's because some synths(pfed=something else) have this mentioned in the steps taken, whether its necessary or not swims not sure, but all precautions are being takin with this being swims first time

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Xylene, acetone, IPA, MeOH, EtOH, toluene all form azeotropes with water, and this means REAL azeotropes (there are no others).

But if the boiling points of two liquids differ by more than 30°C, one can usually separate them properly with distillation, thats right.

This means you can separate xylene (bp 140°C) from IPA (80°C) by distilling, as well as xylene from acetone (56°C, even better), then you can proceed and distill the xylene too after having distilled away all acetone or IPA, and then continue to remove the last traces of [whatever] from your distilled (=pure) xylene/toluene, by washing with lots of H2O repeatedly.

And if a procedure states the use of a drying agent, you can be dang sure that its necessary, believe me! (trial and error as usal, then I found out why they're needed. This was in the beginning of course, where I always tried to cut corners where possible..) Wink

cheers

i_a

Sektor · Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:18 am

this is stupid but.. is coleman fuel the same as naptha? ie: freezing to crash crystals, i like the sound of naptha but cant get hold of the damn stuff

bio · Working Bee

Many grades of Naptha are available with a WIDE boiling range.

Colemans is some type of naptha.

Do a little research and choose the one with the lowest boiling point and only use the lower fractions as it will be easier to remove!