Copper condenser for chloroform?

gomer · Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:22 am

If in a dream swim broke his glass condenser Embarassed

, would it be OK to replace it with a copper coil condenser swim has so he can keep recycling his chloroform?Or would the chloroform react with the copper pipeing and ruin the recovered chloroform or worse Shocked

?

MiNdBaBY · Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:15 pm

Copper catalysis in chloroform formation during water chlorination

More recently, it has been demonstrated that the presence of copper in solution enhances THM formation. Copper is known to catalyze a number of reactions that are similar to the conventional haloform reaction. A study was therefore initiated to investigate the specific role played by copper in the formation of chloroform during chlorination of water supplies. Aqueous solutions containing a number of known THM precursors were chlorinated in the presence and absence of copper, and subjected to time-course monitoring of chloroform concentration. The results of experiments with humic acid demonstrated an apparent catalytic effect on the part of copper in chloroform formation. To examine the role of copper in greater detail, a series of experiments involving aqueous solutions of pure compounds of humic substance structural units was conducted. Of the pure compounds investigated as THM precursors, only citric acid demonstrated enhanced chloroform formation in the presence of copper.

A detailed matrix of experiments conducted with citric acid as a precursor demonstrated that copper, at environmentally relevant concentrations, can have a profound effect on chloroform formation. Based on previously published information regarding the mechanism of chloroform formation from citric acid and the results of these experiments, it is hypothesized that copper promotes chloroform formation from chlorination of citric acid through catalysis of oxidative decarboxylation, and the subsequent chlorination of beta-ketoglutaric acid.

MiNdBaBY · Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:25 pm

Ultimately, MiNd is saying that in his opinion, there shouldn't be any problem..
But more to the point, we come to an interesting situation, and that is, why in the first place would you post the above question, IF you obviously have both Chloroform & an Copper condensor on hand.

If those are accurate details, MiNd doesn't feel the need to try any further than the above journal quote in helping you, if you are not willing to help yourself, which MiNd feels is the case.. MiNd is referring to why you didn't or haven't TRIED a distillation with your copper condensor under a hood for safety measures, since you obviously lack the ability to utse with regards to the rxn of Chloroform on Copper.

MiNds point and lesson to for others, is LESS QUESTIONS, and MORE FIRST HAND RESEARCH.

In this specific case, MiNd hasn't tried it first hand, but is pretty sure, such will work for you, referring to the distillation of Chloroform via an copper condensor..
And should you feel the need, MiNd will kindly tell you how to construct a lab grade condensor.. Real easy.. Glass tubing thru PVC piping.. And the addition of a torch to bend the glass tubing makes for an even NICER condensor, which will nicely fit into a rubber stopper on your reflux flasks & distillate flasks..

gomer · Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:24 am

Swim uses chloroform to extract codeine and when evaping the chloroform he likes to recycle it so it can be used again.Thanks for telling me it should be alright.As my chem knowledge is limited and the only synth I can do correctly is a simple pyridine,codeine to morphine to hammer synth I have trouble understanding all the terms and jargon when I utfse,so thanks again.

MiNdBaBY · Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:11 pm

On other topics, MiNd has built some huge, {and sadly doesn't have pictures handy} copper condensors solely for the purpose of condensing EtOH..

these are easily constructed for almost nothing from copper tubing and T fittings from the local hardware store along with my lil' $12 torch from a local store and some solder..

Chloroform is easily synthesized, but MiNd will not get into that in this forum or at all at this point..

Regarding condensors, geesh! Copper condensors do work well for a very few limited distillations, yes.. But there is really no excuse or need to utilized anything other than glass condensors of lab grade, being DIY built, especially with MiNd having shared his self engineered design for their construction... How hard is it to interpret 'glass tubing thru pvc piping, utilizing a torch to bend the glass tubing for easy attachment/fitting into rubber stoppers on the boiling and distillate flasks.'

As for our somewhat new/limited friend gomer, MiNd suggests you construct a glass condensor! You'd enjoy much more pleasure from it and less worry/stress in regards to its chemical inertness.. And assuming you have constructed a copper condensor to date, you obviously know/understand the simple principles and designs behind a condensor, so you should have no problem making one of MiNds glass tubing in pvc piping condensors.. Smile

gomer · Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:36 pm

Ok mind do I find your design 4 condensor already here in the search engine or will u post it 4 me please.I had a quick look and couldnt find it Confused

when you say torch do you mean a butane torch to bend the glass and is that very difficult?You guys are always quick to say people are not prepared to help themselves and want a free handout given to them on a platter.So many times i have read this here and often you guys are so full of shit when you say that it isnt funny.I ask you a simple question which is not critical for what i do just preferable and you say i cant help myself.Well how the fuk do u think swim got this far,it certainly wasnt from picking your god dam brain m8.Swim asked another simple question in the opiate forum here when swim was having trouble reacting the codeine with pyridine HCL and nobody here bothered to help swim,swim had to work this out on own.So again I ask you how the fuk can u say I am not willing to help self,I think maybe somepeople should get off there high horse and chill a bit.Dont be so quick to say he wont help self when you wouldnt know,and because I have spoken my mind to the mind I bet your next breath will bee well i aint giving that arsehole my condensor design now and hey so fuken what it is exactly what i would expect from you,I am sure i will work it out on swims own like swim always does.The reason I asked about copper cond was mainly for safety reasons ie any unforseen reactions a newbee like me doesnt know about,If in your mind that is worthy of the comment he doesnt want to help himself than maybe you should have your mind examined. Evil or Very Mad

Sorry if i have offended you but atleast I have said sorry cause i dont mean to offend any1 I am just sick of reading about people who wont help themselves when in this case it is far from correct. Shocked

bio · Working Bee

Look on the Rhodium archive IIRC there is a glass DIY condensor design there. A copper one also with pics which would be the same concept as below.

Take your 12mm X 600mm+/-(300mm cooled length) preferably borosilicate tubing and insert thru a PVC (CPVC better) reducing fitting that gives a close fit. The pipe size should be minimum that fits as a narrow annular space increases velocity providing better cooling with less water flow rate. The glass to plastic seal should be a flexible epoxy, silicone or a rubber boot.

Industrial plastic suppliers sell teflon tubing by the foot which is better than glass but make it a little longer as plastic conductes even more poorly than glass. The ideal condensor IMO would be teflon coated aluminum or stainless steel (doesn't bond well to copper) for the best of both chem resistance and heat transfer.

gomer · Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:02 pm

Thanks a heap Bio Very Happy