synthetikal.com Forum Index


Built by the Community for the Community
 Forum IndexForums 
 
   Rhodium Chemistry ArchiveRhodium   The ArcHiveThe Hive   Shop   ProfileProfile   Log inLog in   RegisterRegister 
DMT (from tryptamine)
Page 1 of 1
Post new topic   Reply to topic    synthetikal.com Forum Index -> Tryptamines
Author Message
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post1559
DMT (from tryptamine)

 Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:45 pm		 Reply with quote
in one of procedure, they are using CHI+tryptamine to give->DMT*CH3I
-can CH3Cl can be used instead of CH3I ?? will it give DMT*CH3Cl ?
and that "satl" can be demethylated thesame like DMT*CH3I?
btw~what is "IPA" -some kind of solwent, can you giwe me total name of it [i dont like shortcuts]
-what is solubilyty tryptamine and dmt in dichloromethan etc. solvents [g/ml ??]

Last edited by brain on Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
loki
guinea pig
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 391
14167.88 Points
View Single Post1561

 Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:21 pm		 Reply with quote
you need to read a lot more chem stuff if you don't know what IPA is. Isopropyl alcohol aka isopropanol.

from what i recall about discussion of this reaction on the hive many many moons ago, it is a fairly easy reaction to do, but very poorly yielding, like 25%
Back to top
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post1564

 Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:09 pm		 Reply with quote
sorry, in poland tat shortcut means something else,
- i dont wont to learn shortcuts of substances in ewery language i saw thes schortcut...
-is it to hard for someone to write full name ?? (on the start of article, and then can use schortcuts-like in moste of books etc.)

Quote:
poorly yielding, like 25%


hmm,, if used CH3I-yeld was higher? ... in these procedure(ch3cl) the reaction time is 3-4 times longer [i herad]...
Back to top
starl1ght

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
0.00 Points
View Single Post1778

 Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:51 pm		 Reply with quote
Methylation with CH3I will yield quaternary salt, not your desired target. It may be possible to de-quaternerize afterwards with ethanolamine, I don't know.
Back to top
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post1780

 Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:03 pm		 Reply with quote
starl1ght wrote:
Methylation with CH3I will yield quaternary salt, not your desired target. .

-i know that Wink ...
-can i methylete these tryptamine [frebase] with fomrldehyde??hawe anyone more informations aboit it??
Back to top
starl1ght

Joined: 27 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
0.00 Points
View Single Post1781

 Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:32 pm		 Reply with quote
brain wrote:

-can i methylete these tryptamine [frebase] with fomrldehyde??hawe anyone more informations aboit it??


Yes, a reductive methylation with sodium cyanoborohydride and formaldehyde would work.

Procedure is here:

http://12.162.180.114:90/synthetika/hiveboard/tryptamine/000435022.html

Of course such a prodedure would be illegal in many parts of the world so should not be attempted without the relevant permissions.
Back to top
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post1784

 Sat Mar 19, 2005 12:40 am		 Reply with quote
thx for link Smile

Quote:
Of course such a prodedure would be illegal in many parts of the world so should not be attempted without the relevant permissions.

-of course Laughing Smile !!
---
but these NaBH3CN Rolling Eyes ... I have some NaBH4-but thin it wont work [dont wont to kill my tryptamine-just for try this reaction]
Back to top
IndoleAmine
Dreamreader Deluxe
Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 681
Location: Bahamas
18717.10 Points
View Single Post2616
just my 2 cents

 Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:37 pm		 Reply with quote
I'm not sure, may be that cyclization occurs when NaBH4/HCHO are used to methylate tryptamine - but surely not completely, provided an excess of tryptamine is used and the rxn is quenched at the right point....

Also, I read
Quote:
No, sodium borohydride cannot be used in this case, the formaldehyde will be reduced to methanol by it before it has had a chance to form an imine with the tryptamine
(rhodium) - what about adding HCHO to tryptamine, add mol.sieves, and then after the imine has been formed, add NaBH4?

further:
Quote:
A solution of 35% formaldehyde (35 mL, 416 mmol) in MeOH (35 mL) and a solution of NaBH4 (5 g, 132 mmol) in H2O (70 mL) were added dropwise, simultaneously, at 15°C to a well-stirred solution of tryptamine (4.166 g, 26 mmol) in MeOH (150 mL). The mixture was stirred at 15°C for 0.5 h, 2N aqueous HCl was cautiously added to bring the pH to 3, and the resulting mixture was stirred for 10 min. Then, the pH was adjusted to 6.5-7 with saturated aqueous NaHCO3, MeOH was evaporated, and H2O (50 mL) was added. The mixture was washed with EtOAc (2x150 mL), basified with K2CO3, and extracted with EtOAc (2x130 mL). The organic extracts were dried, filtered, and concentrated to give DMT.


and also

http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=ES2084560&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=EPD

and

Quote:
Why can the authors of this article now succeed where so many have failed, and use the lowly and unselective reducing agent NaBH4 for the reductive methylation of tryptamine, and in addition to that even get yields of 80-90%? The answer lies in their use of low temperatures (-15°C, attainable with a cooling bath filled with sodium chloride/crushed ice in a 1:3 ratio), as well as the fact that they are adding the formaldehyde and NaBH4 solutions slowly, simulataneously and separately.
(rhodium)

and

Quote:
This is a hypothetical procedure and I'm very very sure that it doesn't work because of cyclization (UTFSE). At least it's nothing for a beginner without adequate analytical methods to determine the products of this synthesis.
(Lilienthal)

and

Quote:
Successful synthesis, reduced yields.
(Rated as: pretending illegal activity)



("the world is a disk!")


i_a
Back to top
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post4460

 Thu May 05, 2005 7:28 pm		 Reply with quote
I can try it, but what is the temperature : 15 or -15 C ??

Quote:
HCHO 35% was added with stirring to solution of tryptamine in metanol & the solution was refluxed for 30min.
after cooling 400mg NaBH4 was added slowly
after 1h the solvent was evaporated & the mixture was extracted with CH2CL2.

35mmol HCHO, 3mmol tryptamine i 400mg NaBH4


-maybe this tread will be beather? than adding HCHO with NaBH4 [together] ?
-what will be the refluxing temp? [when it will boiling?]
-the HCHO that didnt react with tryptamine-will becaome -> methanol
Back to top
brain
Linguist Extraordinaire
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 143
2405.16 Points
View Single Post4725
re: DMT (from tryptamine)

 Thu May 12, 2005 12:09 am		 Reply with quote
how can i demethylate these salt? maybe there are some different ways, not nabh4 or nabh3cn ? Smile mabey al-hg? ;p but think these will be to easy to be trou Smile
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    synthetikal.com Forum Index -> Tryptamines All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 



Powered by phpBB 2.0.11 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Igloo Theme Version 1.0 :: Created By: Andrew Charron