Ephedra

MargaretThatcher · Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:47 pm

alkaloid content of various ephedra species and varieties:

http://rapidshare.de/files/1128548/New_observations_on_the_secondary_chemistry_of_world_Ephedra__Ephedraceae_.pdf.html

2spun · The Resistor

while on the sub

http://rapidshare.de/files/1673433/ephedrine_and_related_substances.pdf.html

much thanks

Soap · Wed May 11, 2005 10:59 am

speaking of ephedra... does anyone have any clue when we may be seeing it back on the shelfs in the states?

2spun · The Resistor

Soap,

in swiys part of the world (US) ephedrine was never taken off the shelfs.
But now everyone is putting thier sudo behind the counter.

loki · guinea pig

i don't understand why their efforts are at such lengths to stop the mostly quite small scale operations that rely on these expensive and contaminated OTC sources when most of the supply of product in most places is made from precursor diverted with the paid ignorance of a regulatory representative or two.

i just don't buy the 'ephedrine causes heart attacks and strokes' line, what kind of fool with a heart condition would use it anyway (hell, lets ban caffeine cos it increases hypertension too while we are at it)...

and lastly, maybe people have been in the amnesiac omnipresent now of broadcast media 'news' but not so long ago (well, more than 20 years) it was in common use by asthmatics and very effective at that too... where's the logic in this, on one hand rising asthma rates, on the other, diminishing effective systemic medications not based on fancy steroids. oh of course, gotta make sure we keep on overloading the dwindling supply of general practitioners with patients suffering from illnesses which are minor enough that the pharmacist could give good enough advice... no wait, the pharmacist is in that foggy media blackout world too.

'could i have some tryptophan mr pharmacist?'

'wat WAT. don't you know that it was banned cos people get high on it?' *presses secret button to alert the DEA to the drug addict in the shop*

(to prevent further disinformation, that was what a doctor, a lung specialist, told me was her understanding, the truth is the FDA banned it after a dud batch from japan made a few people dead - a new GE bioproduction method not fully sorted yet - coincidentally at the same time that prozac hit the market)

am i being paranoid or is this just another case of the bullies and the asthmatic geek scenario all over again?

slacker · Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:02 pm

slacker · Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:07 pm

also, ephedra isnt specifically illegal in the us. only in diet supplements. the reason it isnt sold is because of liability issues. they dont make enough money off of it to justify exposing themselves to potential lawsuits. the family of the next dumbass to die from it will surely hire a high profile lawyer and milk the cash cow for all its worth.

loki · guinea pig

this seems like a good opportunity to ask what the legal status, for medical use, desoxyn now occupies. I noticed when i saw a neurologist some time back, having tested positive for excessive daytime sleepiness (idiopathic hypersomnolence) that on the list of medication options was:

ritalin
dexamphetamine
modafinil

and i didn't see any more options. Have they taken it of the prescription schedule or what? I can't seem to find any information either way on this, and as far as i can tell, it looks as though they have removed it from treatment options. Which of course really bothers me.

Which relates back to the topic of the thread. I was reading a document published in 1949 about ephedrine... oh... probably one of the ones up the top there. Why was i not offered ephedrine as a medication when i was a child, i had awful bronchial asthma now and then. Salbutamol was horrible, i mean, it worked, but ephedrine has been a proven and very effective treatment for bronchial asthma when taken immediately upon the beginning of symptoms.

and ephedrine/pseudoephedrine, being so closely related chemically and in effects (sorta like on the opposite end of the scale that adrenalin and ephedrine mark the right hand side) of cns-sympathomimetics, with mild but appreciable sympathomimetic effects and a stronger cns effect, desoxyn is good too.

I feel like I am caught in this void, realising now that my attention deficit, hypersomnolence and asthma are almost certainly related (these are all official diagnoses), and i dunno, maybe i'm just more persistently questioning, but add those three together, what SINGLE drug is going to help. with minimum side effects, and the only risk being that i might take a bit extra now and then, no different to how i am now, drinking some beer... and feeling trapped with nicotine because there is no cns stimulant available which doesn't have major side effects, nicotine and bronchiconstriction, ritalin and anxiety and psychotic behavior, dexamphetamine and major nasty pressor effects and bronchiconstriction.

sorry to rant in the middle of the topic but i would really like to clear up my confusion about the current status of desoxyn so i can get closure on the fact that the medical profession is run by a bunch of monkeys. I can't seem to get any sense out of any doctor i talk to about this and everything they say seems to fly in the face of my experience and everything written about these drugs before 1981 or so.

zub · Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:51 pm

the nature of war:

the war on drugs is alot like any other war. lots of $ to be made by a few.
if speed was legal, for instance, a large dose would cost about 5 cents; same as psuedoephedrine; and would still be profitable for the dealers.

the economics of its sales and manufacturing are a win-win scenario. the ma and pa labs got set up; lots of solvents and matches and pills got sold; millions of addicts got made; lots of people fed $ back into the judicial system. then it got damn near impossible for the ma and pa opperations with the tightening up of precursors and reactants.

perfect time for the organized crime boys to enter into the equation. billions of dollars will be made, with no tax or accountability.

sound paranoid?

as i write, columbia is trying to overturn the u.s. policy of impunity for its soldiers...of which several have been caught smuggling tons of cocaine into texas.

most americans have no idea that we have soldiers in columbia, much less that we prop up their right wing regimes with the profits.
reagan new the value of coke. it financed our "freedom fighters" in nicaragua, and elsewhere, without the need to deal in congress.
sweet.

now speed.
the profits from this drug are too awesome to simply give away to crackers and hillbillies. as a synthetic compound, the big boys needn't even worry about the awkwardness of smuggling or financing agricultural shows; as is the case w/ coke.

illegal drugs and wars have always been bed mates.
that's the morality behind the w.o.d.

who cares if you have a heart attack?

heart attacks are a very positive factor in our gnp.

slacker · Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:32 am

i agree with most of what you wrote zub. only thing you failed to mention are the left wing paramilitaries that are propped up by the same profits. the farc is just as bad. there are no "good guys" in colombia. it almost makes you long for the days of the medilln and cali cartels. they were much easier to manage than the current lot. left wing, right wing, its just two parts of the same bird.

and despite what some of you may think legalizing dope wont change a lot. there will still be massive amounts of money spent and made. dictators will still be propped up, wars will continue to be fought, "narcoterrorism" wont cease, and addicts will continue to be a burden on society. the only thing that changes are the economics of the game. instead we will have odec - the organization of drug exporting countries. prices will be artificially established by the "dope trust". even though i dont like the wod, im afraid this is one of those situations where you're damned if you do and damned if you dont.

produce your own product you say? i agree in *theory*. the only problem comes with the *practice*. i dont want a bunch of stupid hillbillies opening superlabs in every other house because of all the chem waste. i doubt many will dispose of it properly even if they could without risking prosecution. the rivers will only become more polluted, asthma and emphysema rates would skyrocket do to all the gas and fumes given off in the process, and every other kid will have birth defects. think about it. we already poison our children with excessive medications, food additives and preservatives, and pollution from industry. the last thing i want is cletus dumping his corrosive and carcinogenic waste down the sewer because hes too lazy/stupid to dispose of it properly.

and im sorry for always playing devils advocate zub but I LOVE YOU MAN. without your uniqe brand of cynacism and distrust for everything, my life would be boring.

zub · Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:44 am

my real name is cletus.

slacker · Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:12 am

zub, i know you tend to be a wiseass at times, but are you serious? if you are then i apologize for tarnishing your good name. feel free to substitute billy-ray-jim-bob-joe as hillbilly x.