Author Topic: Psilocybin Production  (Read 7686 times)

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adroit_synth

  • Guest
Psilocybin Production
« on: January 12, 2004, 11:54:00 PM »
SWIM has used the search engine and is currently reading through the large volume of posts and figured he would give posting his thoughts/questions a whirl. Flame if you must.

SWIM is planning to take on the task of producing his own psilocybin and has some questions for someone with experience and is looking for criticism of his current thoughts.

1. Is mycelium the way to go for trips? SWIM is aware that some carpophores still need to be fruited to produce more spores from time to time, but the demand for fruiting would be considerably lower if he could obtain the hallucinogen from the mycelium. He is under the impression this method is fast and easy, comparatively.

2. He sees things online that would help greatly (a humidity and gas-exchange controlling unit for example), but he wonders if the bees here do not have comparable or better-yet methods and procedures for controlling such variables. He also wonders of the legality of purchasing said materials. Possibly materials with no spores is safer? Of course none of this is ordered by the grower or sent to the grow site.

3. He knows that B+ or Psilocybe Cubensis is the least difficult strand to grow. Thus, he will start and learn with that species. However, he looks forward to moving on to more potent and more difficult to cultivate strands.

4. When does sterility become a factor? He knows the spores are very resilient, that they can take abuse. Do they always have to be sterile, like for storage? What condidtions of the grow room promote harmful bacterial growth in the fungus?

5. In conclusion, and most importantly, what are the bees' tried and true best and/or most simplified means of cultivation? PF technique in individual jars? Colonizing jars with mycelium? Fruiting shit loads of the fungus in large containers? What definitely fucks everything up?

SWIM will continue reading everything he can find that he thinks might pertain and is eager to hear some bees' opinions.

 a_s


hest

  • Guest
Psilocybe
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2004, 12:40:00 AM »

http://www.shroomery.org/


The Mycelium is too week, eating 10g don't doo much, go for the fruit. The humm. is important, use a perlite system. Start with PF system, then inculate big amount's of rye in alu-pans.
Or by som salicylaldehyde,Sodiumazide, Bromoaceticacidmethylester and oxalylchloride

adroit_synth

  • Guest
Mycelium
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2004, 01:03:00 AM »
SWIM should have included this but he was planning on extracting the active principles from the mycelium rather than just ingesting it. He was looking at this method for speed and simplicity, but he still could be barking up the wrong tree.

Or by som salicylaldehyde,Sodiumazide, Bromoaceticacidmethylester and oxalylchloride

...your suggesting using this as the medium for fruiting? Do other nutrients need to be added?


Vitus_Verdegast

  • Guest
WPOTW candidate
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2004, 01:30:00 AM »
;D
I *highly* doubt that any living organism could survive on the above mixture of chemicals. I mean, these aren't exactly appreciated for their nutritional value  :P .

(It is used for the synthesis of psilocin of course..)


adroit_synth

  • Guest
Synthesis, of course.
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2004, 08:51:00 AM »
SWIM is quite ashamed he didn't notice the above chems were for synth, somtimes he get's a one-track mind, and it was around 3 in the morning with no chemical assistance.  :(

Ok then bees, would it be much less hassle to cut out the middle man and just make the molecule? SWIM doubts this as he feels tryptamine synthesis is over his head. He's trying to learn as fast as he can. Let's say it takes him a month to learn how to grow and maybe two or three to learn how to synth it as he is familiar with the chemical, just has no practical experience in making it himself. He still cannot see how the synth would be feasable for him or advantageous over the fruiting b/c he can get everything needed for fruiting and assumes the chemicals and equipment needed for manufacture of a tryptamine would be very hard for him to get ahold of, not to mention the skills and discipline.

He has large amounts of melatonin that he believes he can extract with reasonable purity.Any fairly simple route to a hallucinogen here? 5-MeO-DMT perhaps? Dimethylating the 5-MeO-T is the only thing he does not kow how to do as of now. HE knows all of the info for it is here and merely needs the time to educate himself and find the chems.


hest

  • Guest
*lol*
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 08:55:00 AM »

...your suggesting using this as the medium for fruiting? Do other nutrients need to be added?



Sorry, but you gave me the laguh of the hour, no not as a medium. The Hive is a bord for chemistry, so it was the ingridient to make the synth of psilocybin. sorry


adroit_synth

  • Guest
amusement
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2004, 11:15:00 AM »
SWIM is glad he can make an adickt laugh for he has nothing else to contribute to the hive as of now. :)  He simply was not thinking. :P

SWIM has registered with shroomery bulletin boards and is gaining a wealth of knowledge. He continues to diligently read all pertaining threads found here as well and has learned alot in the past few days from them.


paranoid

  • Guest
If you're REALLY interested
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2004, 03:45:00 PM »
Probably this would be the single most simple and efficient way.

Post 279461

(Zen: "Zen and the Art of Hydroponic Mycology", Tryptamine Chemistry)



adroit_synth

  • Guest
EXTREMELY interested
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2004, 05:12:00 PM »
SWIM assures you that he is extremely interested.

Usually when he is logged into the hive he has 2-4 windows open and is reading about 3 or more different things. He is fascinated as hell by chem and this sort in particular of course. He has realised that he is spreading himself too thing and decided to focus quite a bit more on a chosen topic to achieve greater understanding in less time. That topic is mycology. It recieves the majority of his attention by far now rather than reading anything that interestes him or catches his eye.
The above mentioned stretch of attention is what caused the above error regarding the precursors as a medium for he was thinking about two other things and got confused.


Why can't I reply to the above link on hydroponic mycology?
edit
I referred to the FAQ and this reason for not being able to reply must have slipped my mind
 - You cannot reply to old threads after more than 1 year after the last post as a relatively new user.
My apologies.
end edit

This idea (hydroponic mycology)interests SWIM a great deal and he would like to know production specifics such as active content % by mass and cultivation period, among others.


Rhodium

  • Guest
The link is always at the top of the page
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2004, 05:19:00 PM »
Why can't I reply to the above link on hydroponic mycology?

Read the FAQ:

https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/faq.pl?Cat=#post




adroit_synth

  • Guest
update
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2004, 12:39:00 AM »
SWIM's plans will hopefully materialise next week! Much ahead of schedule. 8)  He does not need to order anything online but still wants to in the future to ease the production of the more difficult-to-cultivate strands. He sees now that fruiting is not necessary to maintain constant mycelium propagation, a big help.
He's working on the hydroponic method as well. The biochemistry in that thread was particularly interesting as well as the reasoning for the fungus' hoarding of phosphorous. Interesting. Now he wonders about optimization of alkaloid production either making it more specific or just increasing it all together. He would also like any information having to do with analysing/testing alkaloid content or signs of alkaloid content before harvest.


paranoid

  • Guest
One step at a time. I'd suggest worrying about
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2004, 04:01:00 PM »
One step at a time.  I'd suggest worrying about getting a good sterile setup rolling first and testing a few batches before trying to tweak alkaloid content.  That being said, there is plenty of heresay and possibly fact regarding boosting alkaloid production in zoomers.  Just check TFSE a bit and you'll come up with some info.

If you seriously plan to go through with this, please keep us updated, as I'm quite curious to hear someone actually attempt this.  It should be relatively easy, and delightfully productive.  Remember, sterility is key!!


adroit_synth

  • Guest
indeed
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2004, 09:45:00 PM »
Well SWIM is using a modified PF TEK at first rather than the hydroponic method off the bat. He is not as dumb as you guys think. :P  Most of the time, at least.

The Shroomery

(http://www.shroomery.org) has helped him more than he had imagined. Tremendous resource for anyone planning to do anything with mushrooms other than trip.
a_s highly recommends it! :)


He was asking about alkaloid optimization and determination for the hydroponic method so he would get started on the right foot b/c when he moves to that method he expects it to bee worth it and live up to zen's claims of it's agressive colonization. He will just start a new thread for that when the time comes. He thinks a few months.

For you myco bees out there that are also do bees, what are your current yields per unit of time and a short description of your setup?


adroit_synth

  • Guest
incubation temperature
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2004, 09:59:00 PM »
Ok so SWIM has sterilized substrate waiting in the fridge to be warmed up to room temp and innoculated. He read in his book (Psilocybin Production) that optimal temp is 70-75 and higher temps grow faster but have less defense and lowered alkaloid content. He read on the shroomery that the best temp is 86 but no more than 86. Can anyone speak of alkaloid content at diffeent temps? SWIM does not want to exchange potency for a few days time.


Mr_Bronson

  • Guest
Incubation Temperature
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2004, 03:53:00 AM »
I've inadvertantly allowed the mycelium temperature to rise above 30 C with no problems. Going over 35 C (95 F) will kill the mycelium. Why not colonise the growth medium at 30 C (86 F) and fruit at a low temperature, such as 25 C (78 F) for maximum psilocybin?

adroit_synth

  • Guest
maximum psilocybin??
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2004, 06:38:00 AM »

Why not colonise the growth medium at 30 C (86 F) and fruit at a low temperature, such as 25 C (78 F) for maximum psilocybin?




and to what evidence do you stake your claims?




Mr_Bronson

  • Guest
Optimal conditions
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2004, 03:48:00 PM »
I have have read somewhere that lowering the temperature during fruiting increases alkaloid concentration. It does increase crop size. I thought it was on shroomery but cannot find it now. I got the conditions from this excerpt from Paul Stamet's book:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation9.shtml


adroit_synth

  • Guest
my bad
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2004, 09:56:00 PM »
I was not clear in that last post. I have read that before as well, and agree. I was just making the comment toward those exact temperatures.

My buddy would like to clarify something as well. His main source of magic alkaloids will be from 1q PDY broth jars colonized with mycelium and then extracted. He wold like this to be noted so that further posts in this thread do not speak of maximizing the fruit yeild or getting to fruit faster, or even alkaloid content of the fruit for he has seen much info on this and feels it is fairly well documented. He does not however feel that alkaloid production within the mycelium itself is well documented and misinformation is widespread. For instance, on the shroomery the other day a poor fellow claimed that mycelia produce no active alkaloids! Maybe his didn't but there is alot of others that beg to differ on the valididty of his statement. He would like more info pertaining strictly to the mycelium at this point for it is a more effecient method and he hopes to optimise it. He also hopes to learn more about it and move onto the hydroponic method to achieve alleged agressive colonization.

So let him know all there is to know about the mycelium bees!


adroit_synth

  • Guest
Mycelium Extraction
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2004, 10:20:00 AM »
Gleened from Psylocybin Production by Adam Gottlieb with additions by me in green
Harvesting and Drying
     The medium of each jar is filtered through a clean funnel cloth. These jars are 1 quart size with PDY broth as medium. The mycelial material is removed from the cloth, placed in a Pyrex baking dish and allowed to dry in the oven at a temperature no greater than 200F. An oven thermometer should be used b/c the temp on the knb may not be accurate. The mycelium should be checked preiodically. When it first appears to be dried, the heat is turned off and it is allowed to cool in the oven. Each jar should yield 50-100g of wet mycelium which is about 90% water, for a dry yield of 5-10g of crumbly material.
Extraction
      The dried mycelial material is crumbled and pulverised, nd each 100mg of this is combined in a flask with 10ml of absolute methanol. The flask is placed in a hot water bath for four hours. The liquids are collected and saved. The slurry (the mush in the filter paper) is heated two more times in methanol as before. The liquids of the three extractions are combined.
     To be certain that all of the alkaloids have been exracted, a small extraction of a portion of the used slury is tested with Kelle's Reagent (glacial acetic acid, ferrous chloride, and concentrated sulfuric acid). If there is a violet indication, alkaloids are still present and more extractoin is in order.
     In an open beaker the liquids are evaporated to total dryness with a hot water bath or applying a hair dryer. All traces of methanol must be removed. The remaining residue is should contain 25-50% psilocybin/psilocin mixtue.
     Greater purification can be ahieved, but it would require other solvents and chromotagraphic equipment and is hardly necessary. Each 100g of dried mycelium should yield about 2g of extracted material. This should contain at least 500mg of a psilocybin/psilocin mixture or about fifty 10mg doses. Now tell me it is not worth it to cultivate mycelium for the magic!


sYnThOmAtIc

  • Guest
Man get some books..
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2004, 05:19:00 PM »
I really hope your young. You need to buy "the mushroom cultivator" book. It will help you a lot. It will explain colonization and fruting temps and how they initialize "pinning" otherwise knows properly as primordia. It covers the entire aspect of growing mushrooms in DEPTH, even on a commercial scale. Incubation should also always be done in undisturbed darkness. I am sorry you are just finding the shroomery recently. However, it is not a very good source of info.. It does contain some useful info in general, but I would not attempt any of their teks and expect much success. Any tek or substrate you see that is by ryche hawk is a good one. I really reccomend the 50/50+ casing and the ryche hawk substrates. You realy need a professional mycology book. "The preservation of living fungi" is another good book you shuld buy. It covers how to keep cultures sterile, or make dirty cultures sterile. It also covers storing and preserving culture stocks. Stamets book doesn't cover preservation in depth like this book, but gives you enough info to effectively store cultures for short periods of time.

Good luck.