Author Topic: Butanediol Isomer Question  (Read 427 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Butanediol Isomer Question
« on: November 29, 2018, 12:17:54 AM »
Can anyone tell me about one of the isomers of Butanediol that is 2,3 Butanediol ?

I want to know if you THINK that this would be a good pro-drug would facilitate the deep regenerative sleep that Sodium Oxabate (discretion ..) gives and if it would carry any toxicity ?

I am losing too much sleep and it's a real problem (my memories are not encoding well at all), not to mention the Cellulitis and other immunodeficient responses.

I have no non-therapeutic intentions at this stage, I am just desperate and damned annoyed that I have to go through this channel.

If you guys can't help me then nobody will.

Any input appreciated other than the obvious one.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 12:44:52 AM by chip »

Offline dopamine

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2018, 02:33:28 AM »
2,3-butanediol is not a prodrug for GHB,. 
1,4-Butanediol is a prodrug to GHB, this is because--if i recall correctly--the enzyme 'alcohol dehydrogenase'   well.. dehydrogenates 1,4-butanediol to the free acid GHB in your liver.   If you were to ingest 2,3-butanediol that same enzyme would almost surely dehydrogenate it to MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone.)   MEK is mildly toxic and would not give you the the positive effects you're seeking.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 02:36:37 AM by dopamine »

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2018, 09:43:03 AM »
Damn, i thought as much.

2,3 can be formed via a natural fermentation method and is synthesized much the same in vivo.

I might have to see if i can go the doctor route as my insomnia is aggravated with alcohol and GABA agonists.

Thanks for the toxicity assessment - i'll give up on that idea.

GBL was my favorite but the date rape risk must've got too high and i found nothing but nasty people dealing it and i'm not surprised the cops shut that shit down; it attracted the worst types of METH users who often did a myriad of stupid stuff when all i wanted was 2 x 4 hours chunks of deep REM sleep.

In Australia, the maximum penalty of 500-1000 ml is $500,000 fine and/or 20 years imprisonment.

... still, what price can you put on regular, solid naps ?!  :P
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:45:19 AM by chip »

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2018, 11:05:29 AM »
One more thing - i recently gave up opiates and opiods after 4 decades and my sleep never recovered.

Mild METH withdrawal sends me into a few days of OPIOID withdrawl and you would think that sheer exhaustion would be the dominant response but the opposite is true. And no, i am not mistaken as my endorphin regulatory genetics have been permanently altered/mutated.

I have been taking mostly d-AMP for 4 decades and METH for about 7.

i am sure that there is little documentation on aging poly drug users and i think that if i plead my case, i will succeed.

My doctors let me self prescribe as long as they handle the diagnoses so i should be good.

At least i have a plan and this is medical, not deviant drug seeking behavior.

Offline Tsathoggua

  • Spaz Tech
  • Founding Wasp
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,162
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2018, 03:45:08 PM »
1,4-BDO is probably the most undesirable of all GHB  prodrugs. This is because of it's undergoing metabolism via the agency of alcohol dehydrogenase to y-hydroxybutyraldehyde before ending up being metabolized further via aldehyde dehydrogenase to GHB-(acid form).

Aldehydes in general are rather hard on the body, and best avoided if possible, in terms  of things to be ingested.

Some have been used internally, such as (practically speaking, since it ends up as 4-hydroxybutyraldehyde before conversion to GHB)1,4-BDO and the (now very much antiquated, if it is still used  at all in this day and age) sedative-hypnotic drug paraldehyde, which is the cyclic trimer of acetaldehyde, and most unpleasant in every possible respect. Unbelievably, it used to be given by intramuscular injection!!, although glass syringes had to be used to administer it in this fashion, due to it's propensity to melt plastic, like  chlormethiazole (a far, far superior, and indeed quite  excellent GABAergic depressant, acting on the barbiturate/picrotoxin binding site). It (paraldehyde) stinks something terrible, like burning tyres or burning plastics to Tsath's  nose, and he cannot imagine anybody ever willingly taking it more than once. Never injected it, IM or by any other route, that must burn like fury and if it doesn't cause tissue damage, Tsath' would be astonished. Nasty stuff, half way between pure unadulterated hangover, and outright poison (I.e acetaldehyde on the one hand, and the tetramer, metaldehyde on the other, metaldehyde being the active poison in most slug pellets).

Generally, aldehydes aren't  healthy in-vivo. And whilst he has always avoided 1,4-BDO for that reason, everything by way of 1st-hand accounts from other people who have used both it, and GBL, say that it is much rougher and unkindly to the GI tract, more irritating to the stomach than is GBL. And that it causes worse hangovers than GBL. Tsath' can't really say as GBL is all that pleasant in that respect, and he never could get it down orally without gagging, not helped by the repulsive stink of the stuff. Plugging was the only way he could get GBL inside him and keep it there.

Regarding date-rape, Tsath' doesn't doubt that people have been intoxicated for the purpose with various drugs, just thinking of it as a numbers game, but everything he has ever read, seems to suggest that of those women unfortunate enough to be targeted by the kind of filthy bastard slime who think it acceptable to get women intoxicated in order to fuck them (who need, IMO, to be strung up by the eyelids and slowly lowered toes-first into a big barrel full of hot, concentrated KOH, and dipped mm by mm, by perhaps a few mm per hour until they finally expire, sick little fuckups), that of those who have had their blood analyzed to determine what agent/s were  used, that in the VASTLY overwhelming majority of cases, alcohol was the sole drug involved. (although it is true that GBL is metabolized to GHB extremely rapidly by plasma pseudoesterases, and the half life of GHB itself is pretty short, so any significant delay in sampling, and also, delay between sampling and the testing of the samples taken would also contribute to disappearance of, or significantly lowering the levels of GHB, at least unless the samples were heat-treated or otherwise treated in such a way as to denature the enzymes in question)

But overwhelmingly, it is alcohol, in large quantities, most probably willingly consumed in excess, that has been present in cases of intoxicant-assisted rape by unfamiliar individuals (Tsath' doesn't like to dignify it with the term 'date rape', it's fucking  rape, no matter how one tries to sugar-coat it or make it seem less serious than a blatant rape at knifepoint or after physical violence, and just as disgusting)

And one other thought which makes 1,4-BDO, GBL or GHB seem rather less likely than fr.ex benzos or other sedatives in those cases which have involved another  depressant being used, is that BDO is nasty, acrid, stinking stuff, GBL is also foul smelling, foul tasting etc. and in the case of GHB, it would involve a good few grams of what for all intents and purposes, as far as consumption goes, requires the ingestion of quite a lot of salty-tasting drug.

Pretty sure that if someone were to squirt enough GBL into a drink to knock Tsath' out (he's no tolerance to G or it's precursors, doesn't use the stuff anymore), considering that a wouldbe rapist isn't going to want to take any chance of being caught, and cannot guarantee that their intended victim would consume more than one drink, its all going to more than likely go into that first drink. And a KO-dose of GBL or 1,4-BDO is going to make the drink taste pretty revolting, or at least very 'off', it seems quite likely that it would arouse suspicion from the first mouthful or two. And who wouldn't notice 5-6g of salt, if added to a pint?

Pretty sure it'd be noticeable that something wasn't right with the spiked drink. One would have already to be pretty pissed for there to be any chance of it not being noticed. And that goes severalfold for something like GBL or 1,4-BDO, due to the disgusting, acrid taste and the smell and taste of bitter, burning car tyres.

It's unfortunate that depressant drugs get characterized as 'date rape drugs', stigmatizing those who wish to use  it legitimately, and if shared with a woman, then shared knowingly and with consent. The actions of the tiny minority, rarely, thus reflecting on all users, the overwhelming majority of them who never for a moment would even consider such repugnant actions.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 07:04:39 PM »
It happened to a lady friend of mine, on my watch.

She gave me some GBL and she was pursuing more.

I let time get away from me and i didn't know exactly where she went as it a multiroom complex.

When i realised that all was not well i asked the staff to check on the guy's room as i did know his name. They refused and said if something untoward is going on then i should call the police.

Great, she's holding and a Heroin addict, uses METH and has GBL. I kept at it but time was passing ... i told them that i suspect the worst and that they check the room.

They told me that something was odd and i asked to  see the room. The guy had stolen her money, G and threw her out the back as i found her passed out, on her back, on the concrete.

She did know this would happen and took a risk. What annoys me about the fucked up G scene is that they have so many "strengths". He kept the pure for such predatory opportunities.

I have never called the cops on anyone but i rang the place that he reports to and told them that this cunt just raped my friend.

I don't see her anymore but tried to push for a police report and organised PrEP (antiretrovil bolus deterrent) but she refused.

The METH 'n' G scene (apart from the gay scene) is a shocker; as soon someone drops into a G sleep, they get robbed or raped. Good riddance !

And it screws up people like me who made good use of it and never partied on it, nor wanted to.

Offline dopamine

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 10:06:02 PM »
    GBL and GHB are not 'bad' and do not cause rape, nor encourage rape,  nor suggest rape.  GHB has nothing at all to do with rape, there is no problem with GHB, in fact its probably one of the most benign (maybe even THE most benign) psychoactive drugs available. 
     If people are getting dosed with GHB and subsequently raped thats not a GHB problem,  thats a rapist problem,  rape is bad, rapists are bad and they are harmful to society with or without GHB.       There are loads of other GABAergic drugs that would be just as effective at sedating someone enough to rape them (most of which dont require several grams like GHB to acheive this.)  I can buy flunitrazolam or phenazepam online legally no problem at the time of writing, these are potentially dangerous in their potency (200ug is a strong dose of flunitrazolam.)  At such low doses taste would be imperceptible.   

    Anyway, I'll stop myself before I spend all afternoon ranting. 

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2018, 10:07:38 AM »
of course the "G" drugs aren't bad. Don't they just sit there quietly in their little bottles, minding their own business ?

SUCH malformed behavoural responses that I have observed (like theft and even rape) are OPPORTUNISTIC acts of malevolence.

Look, don't take offence as it is blatantly evident that you are a trustworthy and reliable person with a decent social infrastructure, a genuinely fortunate person capable of little to no harm but your naivety is showing.

this is why you have been entrusted with the rare and precious gift that is the synthesis of heavenly molecules

mate, i get down and dirty in the fucking trenches and I have observed these toxic behavioral patterns replicate like a retrovirus.

i love GBH AND GBL as much as my body loves and demands a good sleep but this "easy to cut" knock-you-or -whomever-the-fuck-out drugs Trouble with a capital T.
 
The gay boys are supercool but the straight version is the polar opposite.

see what i did there ? i told you the truth, flattered you with the utmost sincerity, whilst gently reminding you that you are actually dealing in generalisations and misconceptions.

Without any reservation, the heterosexual crystalline METH scene was the ugliest of any drug scene that i have encountered in my 40 years of addiction ... then "G" came along and it plunged to unprecedented depths of behavioural depravity.

No, I am  not gay and keep on being a sweetie 8)

« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 10:16:37 AM by chip »

Offline dopamine

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 10:30:40 AM »
You seem to be confused.  Not that it matters, but I too am addicted to meth (have used it all day, every day for 10ish years and that is not an exaggeration) and enjoy using ghb on a regular basis as well, and i have seen my share of fucked up shit and terrible people in the past decade so dont patronize me.   


   You sir are a fool.. I want to pick apart  every sentence of your response  and explain to you the foolishness of your words but where do I start. Who knows maybe you just a troll and if so then congrats you are a good one.  Ugh goodnight

Offline chip

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • a little bit more
    • dopetalk / d&u
Re: Butanediol Isomer Question
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 12:59:00 AM »
Not a troll.

Please dissect my post and note the points at which i was being foolish.

Let's resolve our differences.