Author Topic: Steam distillation vs. new gakks  (Read 2754 times)

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ning

  • Guest
Steam distillation vs. new gakks
« on: May 02, 2004, 07:16:00 AM »
Since the purpose of many gakks is to tie up pseudo in a high molecular weight net that follows it through A/B extractions and presumably poisons RP/I reductions, ning wonders if the gakk could be defeated by taking advantage of its relatively high molecular weight by steam distillation.

I.E. grind up some pills, mix with baking soda, place in distillation flask with stirring, and steam distill off freebase pseudo. Perhaps the recieving flask would have a toluene or other nonpolar layer on top, and a slow drip off the bottom, so the water could be automatically removed, while the nonpolar solvent gathered the freebase as it distilled over.

Ning knows steam distillation is used to purify pseudo and meth, but has anybee tried to use it as the frontline method of pill extraction?


livid

  • Guest
swim said yes. it doesn't work.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2004, 09:24:00 PM »
swim said yes. it doesn't work.

ning

  • Guest
Too bad!
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2004, 10:30:00 PM »
I wonder why?


kris_1108

  • Guest
Been Discussed
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2004, 11:33:00 PM »
See

Post 497417

(wareami: "Bees efforts at....", Stimulants)


BTW UncleFester has a procedure for dealing with these new pills/gakks...


It doesnt take long, does it!

It all started here -

Post 491712

(Scottydog: "Problem gassing generic 120's", Stimulants)


and ended here

Post 501189 (missing)

(UncleFester: "publishing emergency", Stimulants)

geezmeister

  • Guest
doesn't work very well...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2004, 06:36:00 PM »
You can steam distill pseudoephedrine-- it just doesn't steam distill all that well.  It is tough and time consuming. Other methods are available which are easier and less troublesome, which is why you don't hear that much  about steam distilling pseudo.

Steam distilling pseudo from the based pill mass never worked very well for me. I had better luck trying to steam distill freebase pseduo obtained by the Straight to Bee method-- but discovered the problem I was trying to cure was solved by a couple of naptha boils before basing the pill mass, and haven't tried steam distilling pseudo again.


amalgum

  • Guest
Re: You can steam distill pseudoephedrine-- it
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2004, 08:13:00 PM »


You can steam distill pseudoephedrine-- it just doesn't steam distill all that well.  It is tough and time consuming. Other methods are available which are easier and less troublesome, which is why you don't hear that much  about steam distilling pseudo.




Not just that, but in SWIMS experience (at least post rxn anyway) the new gakk comes over with steam, along with the bases.


SHORTY

  • Guest
Foaming
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 09:56:00 PM »
Was the problem i had when trying to distill from the pm.  And yes, some of the gaaks will come over in the steam as well.


ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Teaser Smell
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2004, 02:49:00 AM »
When you all guys tried steaming pseudo did it smell like something was taking place?

It sure did in swim's case but no ceegar in the collection flask. (sounds almost like church)

Also a glass stopper on the upwards pointing end of a condenser setup was literally fired off like a cannon due to the pressure caused by a pressure cooker that was part of the whole rig.


biotechdude

  • Guest
steam distill pills
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2004, 03:27:00 AM »
As you have all concluded, steam distilling pseudo is a pain. 

However, all that can be added is that is takes ALOT of distillate to get a appreciable ammount.  A very rough rule of thumb is over a litre per gram.  Many many variables like pH, flask temp, steam temp dryness and velocity, condenser efficiency etc etc affect yield. 

Also, the collected distillate is clear and doesn't smell like anything special.  It doesn't look like anything happens, but after you pH and evap the goodies appear.  Did anyone last long enough to collect a decent ammount of distillate and see how they went?  Dont bother, solvent extraction is still the best method for pseudo pills...

ning

  • Guest
Thanks for the info, guys.
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2004, 06:18:00 AM »
Thanks for the info, guys.

Ning, of course, knows nothing of the highly specialized tweeker lore 8)

Sounds like some type of water recycling device is necessary.

I wonder...since pseudo is a tough molecule, if one were to take an espresso pot, and tea-bag ground pills in the coffee holder, then "reflux" for a while, how things would turn out? A sort of steam-soxhlet.

If there were NaOH or other base in the water, it would perform a "fester gakk hydrolysis" simultaneously on the distillate.

Perhaps pseudo needs only a middle-high pH to bee steam extractable. Ning suspects that at high pHs pseudo starts to become water soluble again, due to deprotonation of it's benzylic acohol function. Na2CO3 would probably bee perfect.

If it were possible to reduce the dizzying array of solvents used for pill extraction, the chances for a bee to get caught would be less. Not to mention the environmental factor.


weaz1dls

  • Guest
Just A Note
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2004, 09:42:00 PM »
Temperatures in a micro get higher than conventional temps in ref to boiling water...as such when dehydrating a pseudo water solution one notes a decrease in expected yield.  Change your picture of a "distilation aparatus" in your mind and use the info above to your advantage.  This is still a pain in the ass and modifications must be made to compinsate for the high excitement of the aziotrope coming over. ;)

dwarfer

  • Guest
this will work
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2004, 10:13:00 PM »
This makes the "steam over" much faster.  However, as noted, much of the TOUGHER to handle grime does too.

Post 488247

(dwarfer: "The DwarJet: a superheated steam extractor", Stimulants)


Smells good, though....


amalgum

  • Guest
Re: When you all guys tried steaming pseudo...
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2004, 11:46:00 PM »


When you all guys tried steaming pseudo did it smell like something was taking place?

It sure did in swim's case but no ceegar in the collection flask. (sounds almost like church)




YES!  Like SWIM has said, he never tried distilling pseudo from the pills.  But post rxn the same thing happened.  You could smell the fb, but nothing really seemed to come over.  Maybe what looked like a few drops, but thats it (of oil SWIM means).  Nothing but gakked crapola when extracted washed and titrated, nothing came out in all gassing attempts.


dwarfer

  • Guest
check your condenser
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2004, 10:33:00 PM »
If you have a glass, or even clear vinyl collector hose, you will see the plases of FB flowing down in the rivulets.


amalgum

  • Guest
SWIM uses all glass. A 24/40 rb single short...
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2004, 12:02:00 AM »
SWIM uses all glass.  A 24/40 rb single short kneck connected to graham adaptor (since no temp. needs to be recorded, the thermometer adaptor is fitted with 10/30 glass stopper).  This is connected to 24/40 graham condensor.  Usually, during a non-gakked steam distillation of the freebase, your right, you can see the droplets of oil all the way through the adaptor and down the spiral of the condensor until it drips into the beaker.  But the gakked ones seem not to have this oil apparent, it just looks as if water and nothing else comes over. But after extraction of the distillate, nothing but gakked crap ensues.

elfspice

  • Guest
adding a nonpolar to the distill
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2004, 08:32:00 AM »
i wonder if it would be a good idea to put a solvent in there which distills at about the same temperature - trimethyl benzene boils at 169, that might be useful, the ~160ish boiling fraction of turpentine. the main idea would be that this would allow something to be in the condenser that would dissolve the fb and let it be washed through. trimethyl benzene boils at 169, this would be suitable too.


lsd

  • Guest
Steam Distilling Pseudo
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2004, 11:45:00 PM »
Our Aussie pills are filled with that much crap that I steam distill the pills. I mix the crushed pills with an equal weight of caustic and steam distill. There is a smell as the freebase comes over. Some crystals appear in the collected water, more appear over time. The distillation must be forced with heat. Titrate with acid 'til neutral and evaporate. It couldn't be easier. I wish I had learnt this instead of washing with this and washing with that. To think of the amount of pseudo I've waisted over the years by not steam distilling. Basic chemistry really! 15 grams of pseudo was collected in a pint glass (about 375ml)of distillate. If the distillation is not forced then it will not work as well. The flask must be heated while the steam is being applied, this is forced steam distillation. Meth (post reaction)doesn't need to be be forced but pseudo does. Gakk shouldn't come over, didn't for me, just pure pseudo freebase.

biotechdude

  • Guest
very VERY good
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2004, 06:50:00 AM »
>>15 grams of pseudo was collected in a pint glass (about 375ml)of distillate


Swix posted this a few posts earlier. 

>>A very rough rule of thumb is over a litre per gram

That statement was only given to indicate that pseudo doesn't come over as easy as meth.  And obviously, the ammount of pseudo in the distillate is proportional to the volume and ammount of pseudo in the steaming flask. 

To collect 15g of pseudo in 375mL you did very well.  Your Oz pills are a hidden gem.  Swix is impressed...

lsd

  • Guest
steamin'!
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2004, 01:41:00 AM »
did another 10 grams yesterday but steam hose died so had to stop short. After collecting distillate, ph very low and then evaporate. It will be smelly at end of evaporation as excess hcl boils off but at least you know that you converted all freebase to hcl salt. Our tabs are full of crap but the still , still works!

lsd

  • Guest
new gakk is now here!!!
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2004, 06:39:00 PM »
Oh well, the new gakk has finally arrived here thwarting steam distillation.Was good while it lasted!