Author Topic: Burning through steel...  (Read 479 times)

Tsathoggua

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2011, 09:22:38 PM »
It hasn't, yet...still waiting for the iron oxide to arrive.

LN2 would be difficult to lay hold of, doubt very much I could mail order it, and I don't think the local welding store will do gas supplies, I think years back I checked with them, and one needs already to have a tank before they will sell gases, they don't rent or sell the things.

It would be by far the preferable option, but I don't think I can obtain it, at least, not without a lot of expense, and sadly, I am poor as shit, not to put too fine a point on it.

Already have aluminium powder however, and a sledgehammer, mortar/stone chisels, and iron oxide is on its way...so thermite it is, at least, it will be tried.

LN2 might also have the disadvantage of requiring a closed-circuit air supply or rebreather in enclosed conditions...all that N2 evaporating rapidly in a confined space will exclude all the air, and leave it an unbreathable atmosphere, and I want to be able to look inside the safe, and bugger the hell off, not hang around for hours waiting to be able to breathe again, or be seen walking around suited up looking like an extra from starship troopers :D
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wellbie

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2011, 07:57:39 PM »
thankx for the update , hope all goes as plan and a safe arrival to the end result

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psychexplorer

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2011, 04:32:56 AM »
If you're still planning on thermiting it, prepare to part with whatever is in it. Thermite will not be kind to the contents, even if you had a way of knowing how much is just enough.

Cutting or cryocracking is the best option here.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2011, 06:10:45 PM »
The safe appears to have a double-walled arrangement, I have keys to a set of inner doors, which mind you, I haven't actually seen, recovered from a thorough search of the scene, the outer door is seperate, with protruding hinges.

I am pretty sure the charge could be positioned just over those hinges, to either burn them off, or generally bugger them up to the point a blow from a sledgehammer could take the things off.

LN2 isn't available, but, come to think of it, how about causing a thermal shock effect, first heating to the maximum temperature of a propane torch, then giving a good burst of a freezing spray, I know there are some available for DIY, and others (although based on MeOMe and of course bloody flammable) for the likes of wart removal.

Get the buggers nice and hot, then abruptly freeze the shit out of them, it might not be LN2 temperatures, but do you think, rather than reaching such a low temperature, exploiting the rapid DIFFERENCE in temperature may also prove effective?
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psychexplorer

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2011, 07:50:23 PM »
"Appears" is a fairly hazardous assumption.

Thermite is quite hot and heat is not directed. It isn't as if you can thermite off the hinges the same way you could use a shaped charge to shear them with the force being directed away from the contents, assuming there aren't any locking bars.

The problem with thermite is that it burns roughly seven times hotter than the ignition point of paper. Steel is a good conductor of heat, but rather limited in its ability to act as a heat sink.

That heat has to go somewhere.

The amount of thermite required to melt the thing open will be quite high. It isn't as if you can use a small amount which will just melt the surface.

I think Mythbusters ran some demos about explosives and thermite against safes. While I would be loathe to hold up Mythbusters as rigorous scientific inquiry, you might torrent that episode and at least watch some of the mechanics of energetics against safes. Seeing a few safes hit with energetics might help you visualize just how hard it is to contain the energy to what needs to go without dumping it into the contents.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2011, 05:28:53 PM »
There is quite definately a double walled arrangement on the front, there is an inner door which takes two keys (which I have) and the outer one, the hinges are mounted at the top and bottom righthand corners sticking out at a 45 degree angle, the charge could easily be mounted directly above those hinges. I woulsn't want to burn a hole in the safe, just go through the rings that hold the hinge bolts which should permit the thing to be crowbar-ed off, or given a good belting with a sodding big hammer.

Thermite aside, what about the idea of thermal-shocking the thing to death by hitting it with a blast of freezing spray after heating the outer hinges to a good red heat. Think cutting in a weak point with a continuous shallow cut from a hacksaw/tungsten carbide blade to encourage a fracture to take shape down that particular route would enhance the probability of success?

At any rate, I doubt that latter procedure, would damage the ability of the safe to open were the locks to be opened correctly (or with plain ol' generic vanilla brutality) ?

Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

hypnos

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2011, 03:02:51 AM »
cryocracking is the best option--yeah! just get almost any liquified gas and freeze the hinge and then hit it with a "sodding big hammer"

forget about heating it first, depending on the size of the hinge as to how much 'gas' you'll need,,but I reckon about a litre of LPG (with some directional nozzle) will do the trick....now IF you had some liquid nitrogen...hmmmm? ...got any friends whose a doctor? they use it for "burning off " warts etc
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Oerlikon

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2011, 03:40:17 AM »
I still think that high explosives are best choice!
You can just blow it to oblivion or make tiny shape charge for precision:deep narrow hole or nice straight cuts!

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Tsathoggua

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2011, 01:09:48 PM »
Oh I would just love to be able to soak a few drops of nitroglycerine into the hingest and let the bugger go, but the filth have been trying to pin charges involving explosives on me for YEARS, without success, after one...incident.

Besides, even if I could risk that, letting off a wad of boom-clay in a residential area might just attract some pretty bloody fast attention of a most undesirable sort....trust me, it does, things going kablooey draws attention....I was a kid once, y'know, and possibly not a very nice one either at times ^_^
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I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

hypnos

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2011, 12:32:23 PM »

swampmonster just start making some nice, not too thick-1cm- moulds with a hole in the bottom, use sand or something similar to check the flow rate,,and have a stream that runs for,say 20seconds'
 you fit this mould so that it 'sits' on the hinge in question, so that it 'allows' the thermite to flow by in its liquid state- I believe using the correct geometry and flow rate, it could work like a treat!
    btw..thermite makes a "tennis court of smoke" so have an already smoky cover...
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dwarfer

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2012, 03:44:20 AM »
Making a contribution once every couple years
probably isn't extremely valuable..

??was a metal cutting circular saw considered on those exposed hinges?

By now, that sucker should be open..

Is it?

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Sneak

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2012, 11:40:41 AM »
Yeah man someone mentioned an abrasive circular saw blade would be Good economy to use.

I think making a lot of noise for a long time is an issue here though.

So, did it ever get open? What the fuck was in it. And did the inner keys work?
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Tsathoggua

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Re: Burning through steel...
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2012, 07:34:03 PM »
Haven't been in there for a while. Health issues have stood in the way. Toady finds it difficult to bend, or walk without a cane now. So he has to bee VERY careful if there is any chance the plod turning up, he just can't leg it, scale fences, even shooting 4-5x OC 40s a day when the knee and now hip get bad, and walks slowly even then.

A power saw would be too noisy. Toady needs to have a crack with that thermite.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.