Author Topic: common LSD reagents  (Read 758 times)

poisoninthestain

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common LSD reagents
« on: March 28, 2009, 06:41:19 AM »
bromocriptine-not all too suspicious. legal to own almost everywhere. ~10g minimum needed to experiment. used medically for a variety of diseases. Really worthwhile if you convert it to it's grignard reagent Lyserg-diethylaminomagnesium bromide(talk about nomenclature headaches. i think i got it right.) and then decompose it with water to yield LSD + bromomagnesium hydroxide.

Diethylamine-suspicioius to buy. not regulated. can be easily synthesized from N-diethyl-m-toluamide(DEET) by means of hydrolysis.

dehydrating/peptide coupler reagent- includes POCL3, BOP, PyBOP,ect...acid chlorides are usually quite toxic/somewhat hard to aquire. peptide couples are ZERO suspicious, sometimes expensive, and moderately "safe" to handle.

hydrazine hydrate-easily synthesized OTC. there are a variety of patents to form it. HH is not used all that often anymore. Hoffman used dry HH.

Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds- contain 3-30% ergot(lysergamides) alkaloids. can be easily extracted and then hydrolyzed to yield lysergic acid and iso-LA. Roughly 500 min. seeds needed for experimentation.

Everything else is pretty standard aside from chromatography. Sep. funnels would work as a column but I would just use a legit column instead.


xxx

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2009, 02:24:57 PM »
Phosphorous ANYTHING is suspect as its used to make nerve agents, but that dont stop me from ordering. Diethylamine can be obtained from your friendly chem supplier if you have one. European members PM me for a good chem supplier.

poisoninthestain

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 02:52:57 PM »
true true hex. i would have to grow a huge pair of balls to order diethylamine where i'm from...

maybe i'm just paranoid but after recently reading about how a bee by the name of WyndowLicker got fucked for buying ergocristine i'm sorta sketched out.

zzhuchila_clocker

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2009, 06:53:36 PM »
ergotamine? it is present in many brands of tablets for migraine (along with caffeine, and sometimes tropane alkaloids)
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Vesp

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2009, 08:16:41 PM »
I think you'd be better off culturing some ergot fungi and extracting the alkaloids from them. Once you've got a decent method down for culturing them, you would essentially have an unlimited supply. I think the fungi method would be better at least when compared to other methods of using pills or seeds since you'd still need to extract, but you would have to buy them multiple times and your supplies could run out or be restricted.
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poisoninthestain

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2009, 08:32:11 PM »
Vesp- There's dozens of different strains of ergot but only a few that have appreciable amounts of lysergamides in them.

The refs. are out there if you're interested.

Vesp

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2009, 08:38:31 PM »
I know, I'm not saying it would be extremely easy getting them, but if you did, this would be the best way to go. How hard could they be to get anyways? Seems like if at the right time of the year you walked around in a few wheat fields you'd be able to find some good stuff. I don't know though, I haven't looked into it very much so perhaps I am wrong.

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Sedit

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2009, 03:10:58 AM »
Im sure after a wet period and some semi warm/cool (if that makes sence) weather you could probably pull some Ergot out of the field. It will be a little black lump comming out from around where the grain is....  my neighbor grows rye and I have seen it many times in his field but I dunno if I would attempt to culture it or fuck with it in any way for that matter. If you have ever heard of frost bite where the blood stops flowing due to cold and the skin gets gang green and the have to chop off your foot..... well ergot poisoning will do the same thing because it is a powerful vasoconstrictor and you will get a dead hand so to speak from mis handling the ergot. Talk about the bad trips you'd have staring down at black decrepid hand.... :-\
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zzhuchila_clocker

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2009, 07:31:00 AM »
sedit: do you mean, handling the ergot with unprotected skin may cause these kind of effects? sounds terrifying.
Afaik, ergot can not produce sufficient amount of alkaloids if it is not cultured on alive rye, where it can become a real ergot and form clavuses. In the culture medium, it is possible to grow a large biomass form a single clavus. And then walk in the field headlands, pulverizing a solution to rye and collect the cluves at the end of the season. It seems suspicious, but totally legal (on the ohter hand, poisoning rye may be considered as a terrorizm  :) ) Better to plant your own rye in a backyard..
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Sedit

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2009, 03:28:32 PM »
Pretty sure that improper handling will cause such effects. Look into St. Anthony's Fire. Terrifying? You betcha thats why Iv never collected large amounts when its all around me, and Im a chemical collector so for me to not want to have it just to have it is saying alot.

Here, according to wiki this mostly comes from ingestion of the alkaloids but IIRC handling can be a big problem also.
Effects stated in Wiki for ergotism,
Quote
The symptoms can be roughly divided into convulsive symptoms and gangrenous symptoms.

Convulsive symptoms
Convulsive symptoms include painful seizures and spasms, diarrhea, paresthesias, itching, headaches, nausea and vomiting. Usually the gastrointestinal effects precede central nervous system effects. As well as seizures there can be hallucinations resembling those produced by LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide, to which the ergot alkaloid ergotamine is an immediate precursor and therefore shares some structural similarities), and mental effects including mania or psychosis. The convulsive symptoms are caused by clavine alkaloids.

  Gangrenous symptoms
The dry gangrene is a result of vasoconstriction induced by the ergotamine-ergocristine alkaloids of the fungus. It affects the more poorly vascularized distal structures, such as the fingers and toes. Symptoms include desquamation, weak Periphery pulse, loss of peripheral sensation, edema and ultimately the death and loss of affected tissues.

Not sure if its worth the risk honestly. If one wanted the ergot Alkaloids then knowing good medical connections would be the safest and best route.
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Vesp

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2009, 06:40:46 PM »
Wow I didn't realize they where that dangerous. This almost makes me even more interested in them, since I also am into toxic substances/organisms.

Morning glory seeds are also dangerous when it comes to the vasoconstriction IIRC, it is one of the reasons why when people eat morning glory their legs hurt... or so I have heard, I guess something else could be going on there as well, but this makes a lot of sense to me.
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Sedit

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2009, 06:56:33 PM »
Wow I didn't realize they where that dangerous. This almost makes me even more interested in them, since I also am into toxic substances/organisms.

There pretty sure that the originaly inflicted that started the salem witch hunts were caused by this. They had a very very bad wet year and all the rye rotted.... so they made bread out of it anyway and heat don't destroy the alkaloids so they hallucinated and felt as though there skin was on fire...

Of course the witch did it when the whole town is on a bad permatrip.

If you like toxic then check out the puffer fish, nothing better then something that makes you look dead but your not. Do you think an autopsy would be fun in that state  :P
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Vesp

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2009, 07:27:56 PM »
haha that is an interesting story, by having datura in your yard back then was enough for them to kill you because that ones one of the popular witch plants or something like that as well.

the puffer fish sounds pretty scary, I think maybe poison hemlock does something fairly similiar, but I'm not sure.

So, you would have to culture the ergot fungus on living rye in order for it to produce alkaloids, or do you think it would be able to do produce alkaloids from dead rye, and then maybe grow it in a similiar fashion to how one cultures myc for mushrooms on rye?

There is one strain of ergot fungi that produces up to a gram per liter of culture of alkaloids. What species is this? I can't remember or find it. It isn't claviceps purpurea I am thinking of is it?

This probably has no use other then it is kind of interesting:
Quote
Ergot alkaloids are also produced by fungi of the genera Penicillium and Aspergillus, notably by some isolates of the human pathogen Aspergillus fumigatus.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 07:30:48 PM by Vesp »
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zzhuchila_clocker

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2009, 07:48:23 AM »
I've heared about low alkaloid content in a culture medium compared to cluvuses from one person, who thouroughly studied the question and experimented with ergot. I don't know if there are special strains that can produce high amount of alkaloids in vitro(i also heared that before, but i believe that person more). Dead rye is imho not suitable because ergot will not form cluvuses on it like on alive one,  though their content is practically the same. But maybe if you separately place the grains in a moist well airated place in the presence of light, you can get the conditions just like in nature (still, there is no "dead rye", because grains are also alive but in dormancy) and the cluvuses would form
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 07:50:21 AM by zz-zhuchila »
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poisoninthestain

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2009, 02:26:16 PM »
When I was deep into studying LSD synthesis I found that Merck had an ancient patent for preparing alkaloids from Claviceps Purea(sp?) and another strain, whose name I can't remember.

All other ergot fungi don't have much according to the research I've done. I could be wrong.

Vesp

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2009, 06:13:38 PM »
I think Claviceps paspali also has a lot of useful alkaloids in it, and IIRC the culture of it in a liquid solution produces decent amounts of alkaloids.
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Douchermann

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 07:32:28 PM »
Industrially, claviceps is cultured in large aqua-cultures.  This is how they get the ergot alkaloids to make a variety of drugs (prescription).  It does not need to grow on rye to produce alkaloids.  It will probably produce a lot more if grown on rye, but considering the relatively small amount gained at all, I don't think it would be worth the increase.  If cultured in a liquid solution, it can produce ergotamine in the amounts of 2g/1L of solution, which is around 35-40g per 5 gallon bucket.  Considering 3g of LSD-25 can be had from roughly 12g of ergotamine tartrate (that's the yeild alexander shulgin obtained), and 1g of LSD-25 essentially has a street value of $100,000 - I think its entirely worth it. 

(one good hit = 200mcg, 5 hits per 1mg of LSD-25, 1000x5 = 5000 hits per gram, 5000 x 20 [assuming one hit = $20] = $100,000 ).  Of course, I would never endorse manufacturing of drugs, nor selling of drugs, but it's always cool to hold a substance in your hand and think about how much people could/would pay for it. 

I've gone to a local forest preserve with a pair of scissors and a tin can, and collected assloads of ergot containing grasses, so its definitely out there.  Go in late summer/early fall.  Take each kernel and try to grow it on agar.  The agar should have a pH of 5 to 5.5, since this fends off some bacteria, but still allows the claviceps to grow.  If you spawn each kernel at the same time, then you can do a simple blacklight test to see which one is producing the higher amount of alkaloids.  The more UV reactive the growing fungus is, the more ergot alkaloids present.  If that isn't cutting it, you'll have to resort to other analysis methods.

Sedit

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 07:56:14 PM »
Are you positive that this can be cultured souley in a liquid media? Fungi are not known for there water loving abilitys in there early stages of development...but then again claveiceps is a strange creature indeed. If this is the case then what does the liquid culture consist of.

I dont think a black light would prove to be a reliable test given the low amount of alkaloids present in the volume of solution.
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poisoninthestain

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 09:23:38 PM »
Yes! Paspali was the name! I remember now...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3884762.html

...that's the strain of choice for lysergamides.


Sedit

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Re: common LSD reagents
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 09:50:02 PM »
If one where to attempt a liquid culture does anyone know the biosynthesis pathways that derive the ergot alkaloids? Such as with peyote... if one feeds it plenty of phenylethylamine it will produce higher amounts of mescaline. What are the basic building blocks of the alkaloids? Tryptamines?
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