Author Topic: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico (Read 255 times)

jon · « **on:** July 22, 2011, 02:01:37 AM »

what i found interesting about this is they are using phenylacetamide to get around the restrictions on phenylacetic acid.
also what is the tartaric acid used for?
for optical isomer resolution? or salting out large amounts of product?
maybe they discovered my trick about tartrates/citrate salts and amphetamine bioavailability.

just a thought.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/21/us-mexico-drugs-meth-idUSTRE76K45I20110721

reDEEMed · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:06:56 AM »

I have heard lots of people pimp tartaric and citric acids as of late as the preferred amphetamine salts. It's the new black

salat · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2011, 03:52:25 PM »

I thought I read somewhere tartaric acid is used to convert ephedrinepseudo isomers so you get all the correct/active isomer instead of a mix. Think it's on the collective and rhodium.

Salat

jon · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2011, 03:14:14 AM »

no but they were using phenyl acetic acid so the result would be the racemate.
in large scale production i don't think they bother to resolve isomers you lose weight, and it takes a lot of time and effort.
mixing up the isomers of amphetamine dampens the jarring stimulation of d-methamphetamine that's why p2p crank is smoother and invigorating, with less side effects like tachycardia.

Hawkwind · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:10:23 AM »

jon,

I just keep learning things from you, thanks. Helps explain why some folks I know much prefer racemic to dextro.

800 metric tons? Yee-hah!

There's a good post by Station somewhere on Rhodium's archive that gives an obscure reference to separation of isomers with tartaric where you neutralize one of the dextro-tartaric's acid groups with sodium hydroxide and the other with the desired amine in a water/organic solvent mix. One of the levo-dextro isomers goes into the aqueous layer, the other into the organic solvent. Very quick and easy separation with excellent optical purity, much superior to traditional separation of the racemates via crystallization.

Maybe they can sell the levo to some particularly dumb Americans, maybe they've got a method to racemize the levo or maybe they can even pull off an inversion to the dextro?

jon · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:28:37 AM »

no i don't think that is the case.
you can epimerize amphetamines by refluxing at 140C in raney nickel but a lot of raney nickel has to be employed.
tartaric acid likely improves bio-availability and adds weight to the product as a salt.
since tartaric acid has a high molecular weight.
and the phrase "800 tons" seems to imply these guys are more "quantity oriented"
the best stimulant to date as far as euphoria to side effects is the discontinued drug phenmetrizine.
aka preludin, it would be intersting if some enterprizing chemist (insert here) came up with the idea of selling analogs of phenmetrizine like methylcathinone analogs are being pushed today.
one could reckon that class of drugs would become wildly popular there is a thio analog of preludin all kinds of chemical mischief is possible with stimulant analogs.
stimulants seem to sell faster than any other drug due to thier high dependancy liability.

Quote

I have heard lots of people pimp tartaric and citric acids as of late as the preferred amphetamine salts. It's the new black

Reedeemed: it appears that trend must have started back in '09 back when i was playing around with that very same thing; what a coincendence!

Hawkwind · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:39:57 AM »

jon,

I suspect you are once again right.

I would guess they might be using the cheaper natural tartaric acid (dextro as I recall?) rather than racemic. Which might introduce interesting bioavailability issues, maybe even preferential salt formation with one racemate? Which would introduce interesting possibilities for something like MDMA, where there's maybe an even more interesting levo/dextro/racemate relationship.

Phenmetrazine, very interesting. I had heard the name somewhere. Quick look at Wiki says swedish users preferred it to amphetamine and methamphetamine and Paul McCartney and John Lennon used it to stay awake and play early in their careers! If it's good enough for those two and jon, it's good enough for me.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:54:10 AM »

Wow, that led to some interesting reading to say the least. I had never heard of such a compound. I guess you really really old guys are good for something, besides making me feel young. Thanks for that, jon.

I've already saw a few compounds that are very close, and some that are currently unscheduled. I have no idea where you'd get the shit, but whatever. What I'm wondering, is how the hell you zero in on the area you want to modify. I've come to see these compounds we tend to talk about around here as being covered with a skin, the methyl skin. And when you hurt it, usually the first thing that sticks to it is hydrogen, unless you have some other bully in the pond that has it's way with things. That makes some of these transformations pretty damn simple as far as what needs to happen. But, knocking off a particular chain so you can have your hydrogen right where you want it seems pretty fuckin' impossible, though I know it isn't.

When will I know these secrets of the universe? Will I become pure energy when I finally understand this stuff?

java · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:22:21 PM »

Quote from: jon on July 23, 2011, 03:14:14 AM

no but they were using phenyl acetic acid so the result would be the racemate.
in large scale production i don't think they bother to resolve isomers you lose weight, and it takes a lot of time and effort.

........well that is exactly what they do , they resolve the recemic meth and make d-meth with some high ee, the L- is left aside , and can be bought for $500 dol/lb. but mostly all producers use the tartaric acid for that purpose.....on another note , i've not herd of d-meth tartrate, although its a good idea for increase profit since tartaric acid MW = 151 and HCl a mere MW=36 hence one would make four times more shards from one lb of meth free base.......java

jon · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:39:40 PM »

okay now that makes sense the shards are what you see coming across the border and it is'nt racemate.
those fuckers work hard for thier money.

oldguy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 24, 2011, 03:15:37 AM »

Jon and Java,

It never ceases to amaze me how much you guys know.

I guess I'm going to have to UTFSE on phenmetrazine and preludin and see if there's a synthesis up. Seems like a good place to start the research on compounds of theoretical interest..

Here's some old Hive references from Aurelius that you have probably read but others have not. I thought I had seen Raney Nickel somewhere. From a quick skim it looks like nickel on kieselguhr and alkali metals may also offer possibilities.

Aurelius
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-16-03 16:47
No 447791

US pat 2797243 Racemization of l-Amphetamine
(Rated as: excellent)

This patent was orginally found listed in:
Worlock: "Super High Potentcy Push/Pull dope" (Stimulants)

Aurelius
(Active Asperger Archivist)
07-16-03 17:07
No 447792

US patent 2608583 Racemization of Amines
(Rated as: excellent)

This patent was originally referenced in:
Organikum: "the distributor racemisation story" (Stimulants)

Aurelius
(Hive Addict)
02-06-03 12:51
No 405196

US Patent 3970700 Racemization of Amines
(Rated as: excellent)

this actually comes from another thread, but that thread is hundreds of posts long, so this the start of a different thread for this patent.

psychexplorer · « **Reply #11 on:** July 24, 2011, 03:28:00 AM »

Smuggling the racemate across the border doubles the weight required per unit d-MA. Chemicals are cheaper and more available than is space on a smuggling run.

MA is so cheap and easy to produce on that scale that eventually the market will achieve total saturation. Anyone who believes these cartels can be stopped from producing something as simple as MA is deranged.

There won't ever be a shortage of P2P precursors. Never.

What's next, impounding every tanker ship pulling into port full of benzene or styrene?

Mexico will sooner see every polystyrene cooler and drink holder disappear into a cartel-run styrofoam recycling facility before the meth labs stop.

lugh · « **Reply #12 on:** July 24, 2011, 04:46:11 AM »

Quote

US Patent 3970700 Racemization of Amines
(Rated as: excellent)

this actually comes from another thread, but that thread is hundreds of posts long, so this the start of a different thread for this patent.

Station first posted those resolution references at 4:51 PM on 8-12-99 on the Hive, they were then reposted

Polythene_Sam posted some other ones

No good deed goes unpunished

SolarN · « **Reply #13 on:** July 24, 2011, 05:44:29 AM »

Does anyone know how they go from phenylacetamide to MA? I did a google search through various sites, including Rhodium and couldn't find a synthesis.

Regarding shards, has anyone every dreamed about melting the racemate HCl crystals into a tray and letting it cool to become one large sheet that could in theory be broken into large shards. I think this is how Heisenburg in Breaking Bad Season 3 was doing it, and probably adding the blue color when melted/molten.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #14 on:** July 24, 2011, 07:43:27 AM »

Lol, are you asking how the dude on your soaps did it?

I have got to watch this show just see wtf...

jon · « **Reply #15 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:56:56 PM »

yeah you can learn a lot of chemistry (ahem!!) watching soap operas....

reDEEMed · « **Reply #16 on:** July 25, 2011, 06:55:55 PM »

I'm gonna sit down and watch this fucking show of y'alls today. You should know that I am severely allergic to tv. If I die, I will all my shit to vesp.

SolarN · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2011, 05:46:00 AM »

Start from Season 1, you'll be hooked. It gets totally industrial in Season 3. Season 4 just started last week.

So as not to get too far off topic, the Mexicans get involved in the MA production in Season 2

So, no one knows what reaction the Mexicans would have used with the 800 tons of chemicals? I tried scifinder and found nothing and that's the ultimate resource.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #18 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:04:48 AM »

I never got to it. I did just get finished putting together a multimedia linux box for someone, though. May have to test her out on some soaps! lol, that shit still makes me laugh.

jon · « **Reply #19 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:20:57 AM »

it's obvious base catylsed hydrolysis of the acetamide to phenylacetic acid sodium salt titration, work up, and dakin west reaction to p2p.

Author Topic: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico (Read 255 times)

jon

800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

reDEEMed

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

salat

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

jon

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

Hawkwind

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

jon

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

Hawkwind

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

reDEEMed

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

java

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jon

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

oldguy

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

psychexplorer

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lugh

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SolarN

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reDEEMed

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jon

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reDEEMed

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

SolarN

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reDEEMed

Re: 800 tons of meth chemicals seized in mexico

jon

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