Author Topic: I've lost all hope...  (Read 475 times)

JohnSanders

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I've lost all hope...
« on: December 04, 2009, 01:06:47 AM »
I've lost all hope in finding a precursor to LSD. There just isn't a way for me to do it. I just lost 1grand for a small amount of paspalic acid and he was the only 'supplier' I found online.

Bromocryptine  and ergocristine both are so expensive and in such small quantities. For 10mg (max order on most companies sites) its 500 dollars.
Ergotamine is almost impossible.
Ergotamine pills would be the cheapest way next to paspalic acid, but these fuckers are still around 2grand per a gram...and can only be bought online.

I just have given up hope. How the fuck would someone make LSD..I just don't understand how the chemist get their suppliers... I wish I knew.

Its 20 grand for 500grams of bromocryptine...I don't have that kind of money.

:cries:

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 01:45:11 AM »
Perhaps this?


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- Ranchers and scientists have long wondered why horses grazing a certain grass (Stipa robusta) in the southwest stumble around in a drunken stupor and then collapse into a state of unconsciousness for days.

Once bitten, twice shy. After the horses wake up, they never eat this "sleepy grass'' again.

Indiana University biologist Keith Clay has studied sleepy grass and found it to be infected with an unusual endophyte, a fungus that lives inside plant leaves. Alkaloids produced by the fungus are the knockout culprits (caffeine, nicotine, cocaine and morphine are other plant- produced alkaloids).

Clay found that the dominant alkaloid in sleepy grass is lysergic acid amide, a first cousin of LSD.

A report of Clay's study will appear in the Dec. 18 issue of the journal Natural Toxins.

Clay's discovery sheds light on a widespread, but unexplained, relationship between fungi and grasses.

Here, as in many other instances, plants and fungi are involved in a symbiotic relationship, Clay said. The grass provides a home and food for the fungus. The fungus pays room and board by turning the grass into an unattractive food source for hungry animals.

So in this case, "infection'' isn't such a bad thing -- it's what keeps both partners alive.

But for horses, the sleepy grass predator, eating this grass is almost poison. A 150-pound man would become sedated by ingesting but one milligram of the alkaloid.

But a 1,200-pound horse eats 11 pounds of grass daily. And if that fresh grass consists of sleepy grass, that means consuming 47 milligrams of lysergic acid amide, or nearly six times the per-pound amount that sedates man.

It's no wonder that after this knockout the horses choose somewhere else to graze.

Clay does not fear that this discovery will send hordes of people to New Mexico and Arizona seeking a buzz by chewing on some sleepy grass.

Lysergic acid amide is a sedative, not a hallucinogen like its cousin.

And if the horses' subsequent aversion to the grass is any indication, the experience isn't a pleasant one.

Clay's sleepy grass research is merely the tip of the iceberg of his plants and fungi research. His current research involves the implications of this symbiotic relationship on agriculture and the synthesis of new pharmaceuticals.

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 01:46:17 AM »
Or this?



Michael Valentine Smith: Psychedelic Chemistry

From pages 105-107:

The Culture and Extraction of Ergot Alkaloids

Make up a culture medium by combining the following ingredients in about
500 milliliters of distilled water in a 2 liter, small-neck flask:

  Sucrose .......................................... 100 grams
  Chick pea meal .................................... 50 grams
  Calcium nitrate ..................................... 1 gram
  Monopotassium phosphate ......................... 0.25 grams
  Magnesium sulphate .............................. 0.25 grams
  Potassium chloride ............................. 0.125 grams
  Ferrous sulphate heptahydrate ................... 8.34 milligrams
  Zinc sulphate heptahydrate ...................... 3.44 milligrams

Add water to make up one liter, adjust pH 4 with ammonia solution and
citric acid. Sterile by autoclaving.

Inoculate the sterilized medium with Claviceps purpurea under sterile
conditions, stopper with sterilized cotton and incubate for two weeks
periodically testing and maintaining pH 4. After two weeks a surface
culture will be seen on the medium. Large-scale production of the
fungus can now begin.

Obtain several ordinary 1 gallon jugs. Place a two-hole stopper in
the necks of the jugs. Fit a short (6 inch) glass tube in one hole,
leaving 2 inches above the stopper. Fit a short rubber tube to this.
Fill a small (500 milliliter) Erlenmeyer flask with a dilute solution
of sodium hypochlorite, and extend a glass tube from the rubber tube
so the end is immersed in the hypochlorite. Fit a long, glass tube in
the other stopper hole. It must reach near the bottom of the jug and
have about two inches showing above the stopper. Attach a rubber tube
to the glass tube as short or as long as desired, and fit a short glass
tube to the end of the rubber tube. Fill a large, glass tube (1 inch x
6 inches) with sterile cotton and fit 1-hole stoppers in the ends.
Fit the small, glass tube in end of the rubber tube into 1 stopper of
the large tube. Fit another small glass tube in the other stopper.
A rubber tube is connected to this and attached to a small air pump
obtained from a tropical fish supply store. You now have a set-up for
pumping air from the pump, through the cotton filter, down the long
glass tube in the jug, through the solution to the air space in the top
of the jug, through the short glass tube, down to the bottom of the
Erlenmeyer flask and up through the sodium hypochlorite solution into
the atmosphere. With this aeration equipment you can assure a supply
of clean air to the Claviceps purpurea fungus while maintaining a
sterile atmosphere inside the solution.

Dismantle the aerators. Place all the glass tubes, rubber tubes,
stoppers and cotton in a paper bag, seal tight with wire staples
and sterilize in an autoclave.

Fill the 1-gallon jugs 2/3 to 3/4 full with the culture medium and
autoclave.

While these things are being sterilized, homogenize in a blender the
culture already obtained and use it to inoculate the media in the
gallon jugs. The blender must be sterile. Everything must be sterile.

Assemble the aerators. Start the pumps. A slow bubbling in each jug
will provide enough oxygen to the cultures. A single pump can, of
course, be connected to several filters.

Let everything sit a room temperature (25 C) in a fairly dark place
(never expose ergot alkaloids to bright light - they decompose) for
a period of ten days.

After ten days adjust the culture to 1% ethanol using 95% ethanol
under sterile conditions. Maintain growth for another two weeks.

After total of 24 days growth period the culture should be considered
mature. Make the culture acidic with tartaric acid and homogenize in
a blender for one hour.

Adjust to pH 9 with ammonium hydroxide and extract with benzene or
chloroform/iso-butanol mixture.

Extract again with alcoholic tartaric acid and evaporate in a vacuum
to dryness. The dry material in the salt (i.e., the tartaric acid salt,
the tartrate) of the ergot alkaloids, and is stored in this form because
the free basic material is too unstable and decomposes readily in the
presence of light, heat, moisture and air.

To recover the free base for extraction of the amide of synthesis to
LSD, make the tartrate basic with ammonia to pH 9, extract with chloroform
and evaporate in vacuo.

If no source of pure Claviceps purpurea fungus can be found, it may be
necessary to make a field trip to obtain the ergot growths from rye or
other cereal grasses. Rye grass is by far the best choice. The ergot will
appear as a blackish growth on the tops of the rye where the seeds are
and are referred to as "heads of ergot." From these heads of ergot sprout
the Claviceps purpurea fungi. They have long steams with bulbous heads when
seen under a strong glass or microscope. It is these that must be removed
from the ergot, free from contamination, and used to inoculate the culture
media. The need for absolute sterility cannot be overstressed. Consult any
elementary text on bacteriology for the correct equipment and procedures.
Avoid prolonged contact with ergot compounds, as they are poisonous and
can be fatal.

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 01:49:54 AM »
450 grams of sleepy grass costs $50 but how much LSA does it contain???


EDIT: The article stated 11 pounds contain 47g of LSA. So %0.01 does not sound that promising. I don't know why HBWR are still all that bad. I mean doses of cocaine are hundreds times that of LSD and the coca leaf only has %1 alkaloid. So when adjusted in terms of dosage then HBWR seeds should require much less to extract then the equivalent of cocaine and god knows they produce tons of cocaine just fine.


EDIT2: Oops, I'm a dumbass, 47g out of 11 pounds is %1! Sleept grass has as much LSD percusor alkaloids in it as coca leaves do for cocaine! Sleepy grass could be the key! And at $50 for 1 pound this is very doable!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 02:12:40 AM by German »

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 02:16:47 AM »
Ok so sleepy grass contains %1 LSA and costs $100 a kilogram. That means for $100 you can get 10g of LSA and then 2g of LSD-25 or 20,000 doses of 100ug! Am I missing something??? 20,000 doses of LSD costing only $100????

heisenberg

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 02:40:06 AM »
Am I missing something???

See

Quote
But a 1,200-pound horse eats 11 pounds of grass daily. And if that fresh grass consists of sleepy grass, that means consuming 47 milligrams of lysergic acid amide, or nearly six times the per-pound amount that sedates man.

47mg/11lbs comes to a 0.00094% content. Scaling the dose amounts you have that would come to 1 dose for $50.
I spent all my money on booze and hookers, the rest I wasted - Charles Bukowski

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 02:44:27 AM »
Yeah I felt like I was missing something  :-\ . Well my point about coca to cocaine compared to HBWR to LSD still stands. Although the cocaine extraction is a straight direct extraction whereas with HBWR after you get the LSA you have to do a %20 conversion to LSD, but still.

Sedit

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 03:14:54 AM »
Johnsanders if your determination is enough then you must start looking into total synthesis of lysergic acid and indole chemistry. All else fails. This is the ONLY real option for "hack" chemist such as us because there is no option to grow entire acres of Rye just to let it rott then extract 100 of pounds to produce starting materials.

I suggest you stick with it. It is what got me interested in organic chemistry. I felt I could do it.... I was wrong but it started a life long love for chemistry. You will learn so much its unreal when you start try look into Lysergic acid synthesis. read read read.... If you don't under stand something then google that word in another page and read all of that then read read some more. Before you know it you will be psycotic enough to not need LSD to trip ;D
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

JohnSanders

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 03:21:59 AM »
If anything comes down to growing, it'd be growing Paspali and extracting paspalic acid. Paspalic acid is the cleanest, most high yielding route to Lysergic acid. At a 83% yield rate recorded and almost no trouble in extracting it, it seems logical...but growing this ergot doesn't float with my boat.

Sleepy grass is horrible, 47mg per 11 pounds? Are you kidding me? I'd shoot myself before I had to extract all that!

I don't know what I'll do...I guess it just won't happen...

German

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 04:55:47 AM »
Wish I knew how the 5 or 6 guys up in the Bay Area are doing it. But if the DEA can't even figure it out then I'm sure I never will. Not so much how they are doing it but how they are sourcing the chems...... I think I'll still try the HBWR way. LSD will just be a personal use thing for me so I don't need to score big.

jon

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 09:58:10 AM »
ergot does'nt like to produce alkaloids in culture ou have to infect a field with spores and tyvek up and collect the ergot.
 then extract blah blah.
just buy some ergotamine pills pm me oe place it works out to 104$/gram you have to do a lot of isolation though.
there's a company stateside that will sell you kilos minmum order of ergotamine tartrate.
i'm sure you'd be filling out paperwork for that there are ways though.
i bet i could find a few.
damn just did in china too.
about 20 suppliers won't tell here though.
u know the chinese could give two shits about u.s. drug policy right?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 10:07:24 AM by jon »

no1uno

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 10:35:01 AM »
Fuck that, just go buy cheap as shit "pigfeed-grade" sorghum... It has the most ergot sclerotia /kg that can legally be sold anywhere IIRC. The sclerotia (Claviceps Africana) are estimated to contain about 2% ergot alkaloids, the major one being Dihydroergosine. From memory pigfeed can contain anything up to 4-5 of the fucking things per/kg and still be safely fed to pigs.
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
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    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
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shroomedalice

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 10:36:43 AM »
fuck man I thought I was on a good thing thats fucknig cheap.

no1uno

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 10:54:55 AM »
Infecting a field with spores? Fuck that, just check the late-sown sorghum in central QLD (Australia), or even easier - go buy a couple of bags of stock feed sorghum, it is full of the shit, costs fuck all and better than anything else, noone is gonna be checking grain sales...

Quote
Most commonly, a sorghum sample containing 0.3% sclerote will contain about 1 mg alkaloid/kg (1 ppm)

So... if 0.3% by weight, or 3g/kg sclerotia = 1mg/kg alkaloids, then that is a semi-feasible extraction, especially if the sclerotia are easily extracted from the good grain - I think they use flotation (IIRC) to determine the sclerotia content - the fungii float from memory whereas the grain doesn't... 40kg bags of sorghum, yeah, quite possibly an option... Especially if this ref. is on the money with pulling the bulk of the alkaloids with a single methanol extraction.

1mg/3g looks awful tiny, but if a 40kg bag yielded 40mg/120g, then in terms of acid precursors, that is looking healthy indeed, 2T of sorghum (although if you wanted to do it properly you'd just plant sorghum late and water the fuck out of it - it is apparently endemic, infections of up to 30% have been reported.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 11:03:36 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

shroomedalice

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 10:56:55 AM »
http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/27_11770.htm
this is a report on the pig feed in queensland oz. doesnt look that great 10mg per kilo

also dihydro compounds of ergot are not useable for acid as far as I know unless some
one has that magical reagent to make the double bond that I have yet to find.

no1uno

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 11:06:28 AM »
The relevant double-bond forming reactions would probably be similar to the ones used in morphine/other complex alkaloids...

10mg/kg - that is a luxury, that is what 400mg or nearly half a gram from a 40kg/bag?

There is also 'some' major hits on rye-grass type grains in Oz, which give predominantly ergotamine in fairly high numbers
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 11:10:10 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

shroomedalice

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2009, 11:21:25 AM »
The legal limit for stockfeed is 0.3% sclerotes by weight in sorghum grain - about 1 sclerote/100 seeds or 30 sclerotes/100 g grain.

While this 0.3% limit remains for all other uses, stockfeed intended for feedlot cattle has been further limited to 0.1% sclerotes by weight since 2004.

Deliveries of sorghum with sclerote levels higher than 0.3% will be rejected by grain merchants, and higher than 0.1% will be rejected by cattle feedlotters. Most commonly, a sorghum sample containing 0.3% sclerote will contain about 1 mg alkaloid/kg (1 ppm), but because the alkaloid concentration can vary, it will be advisable to minimise ergot wherever possible.
also from the site you posted so less than 10mg thats 1mg.

it would be easier to just order the stuff online in tablets.

shroomedalice

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2009, 11:30:55 AM »
having said that erogt compounds are very active and 1mg per kilo when your a pig eating kilos of grain a day
is way to much.

poor pigs.

heisenberg

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2009, 02:56:37 PM »
Here's the ref no1uno mentioned:


Determination of Dihydroergosine in Sorghum Ergot Using an Immunoassay
John B. Molloy, Chris J. Moore, Anthea G. Bruyeres, Sally-Ann Murray, and Barry J. Blaney
J. Agric. Food Chem., 2003, 51 (14), pp 3916–3919
DOI: 10.1021/jf0212284

Quote
Abstract

Dihydroergosine (DHES) is the principal toxic alkaloid produced by sorghum ergot (Claviceps africana). It has recently been shown that DHES levels as low as 1 mg/kg in animal feed can cause significant production losses. Quantitative immunoassays for detecting the related rye ergot alkaloid, ergotamine, are described in the literature, but those assays are relatively insensitive for DHES. This paper describes competitive enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays (ELISA) for measuring the DHES concentration in grains and mixed animal feed. The assays were developed using a DHES specific mouse monoclonal antibody and rabbit polyclonal antibodies raised against DHES conjugated to bovine serum albumin. Recoveries of between 77 and 103% were obtained from spiked grain using a simple, one step extraction with 70% methanol. Both the monoclonal and the polyclonal assays are capable of detecting DHES concentrations above 0.01 mg/kg, but quantification is most reliable at concentrations of 0.1 mg/kg or higher.
I spent all my money on booze and hookers, the rest I wasted - Charles Bukowski

no1uno

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Re: I've lost all hope...
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 02:09:37 AM »
Yes, far easier to order stuff online... Trouble is, I have personal experience of the consequences of ordering stuff online that then has to clear customs and would not describe the outcome as being at all "favorable" or even "easy"... I'm hard pressed to come up with a reasonable excuse for having ordered such substances, and given that the prosecution would only have to prove an intent to produce "A" drug (here at least), I'm fucked if I want anything to do with mail order ergot.

The standard flotation test is apparently best done with a 20% saline solution and separates the majority of the sclerotia from the grain fairly well.

I'll keep looking, with such useful drugs, surely someone is doing research on making the essential ergot derivatives from the 'supposedly' inactive 9-10-dihydro's (actually, does anyone even know that the 9-10 dihydrolysergic acid diethylamide would be inactive? seems there are some modifications of that ring that improve activity, so I wonder...)...
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."