bio synth of l-pac, starting off

Soap · Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:04 am

hello all. swims been reading a lot about how easy it is to aquire large amounts of benzaldhyde and he thinks that hes goign to give it a try.. now there seems ot be many diffrent ways to go from benzaldhyde to (----)amphetamine but the most appealing and otc route he has seen so far seems to be the bio synth of l-pac. there is little information on rhodnium on this subjet, and swims been having troubles finidng info elsewere.
Has anyone ever done this? what were your yeilds? how otc can this be. do diffrent strains of yeast make a huge diffrence? for instance, swim has some high alcohol tolerant yeast from his moonshining days, would this work better than say store bought bread yeast?
the conversion of l-pac to ephedrine looks easy but is it? like ive said swim has yet to find a full write up on this method. thanks all for the help!

jackoozzi · specialist

If you join the brew forum and pm me for access to a restricted section there is a collection of info there

https://www.synthetikal.com/brewforum/

rennie coombs · Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:17 pm

jackoozzi,
Could i see some of the l-pac biosynthesis restricted collection?
I see early procedures gave 8% l-pac but believe latest are around 30% .Have you latest best procedures?
Regds

hAzzBEEn · Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:22 pm

SWIh would really like to get a first timer's procedure either written or acquired, but has no experience. SWIh can brew beer and wine with no problems. SWIh has read all of the available pdf documentation, but has some trouble with the technical terminology. SWIh is no idiot and has a B.S. degree in a technical field.

SWIh's first idea was to use the brewing equipment that SWIh uses for brewing beer, use bakers yeast instead of brewing yeast, add Benzaldehyde in small concentration, and see what happens.

Is the biobrew/biosynth this simple, or will this most definitely fail?

SWIh isn't looking to maximize yield the first time. He/she just wants to run the procedure, and extract some amount of l-PAC. The process can be optimized, later.

If these basic steps have been taken, can someone point SWIh in the right direction? SWIh hasn't found any write-ups that aren't technical articles, journals, patents, etc. A procedure for those only familiar with brewing alcohol but not biosynthesis would be the goal.

java · Consumer

hAzzBEEn ......the formost writiings on the subject hav been submitted by Org. look for his posts in the Hive files , and at the sciencemadness forum.....there is also a good thread in the WD which was visited by many with info .....there is a lot of info , one might suggest you archive it and make a folder that you can later offer as the complete catalog of info on L-PAC .... ....just a thought.......java

hAzzBEEn · Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:57 pm

I will do that. I have all of the pdf's from the Fermentikal "restricted" area. I understand it for the most part. I have read the old threads at Sciencemadness, but the discussion has been dead for a while. I can't get the WD threads because WD is still down. I even have a L-PAC folder, lol.

I think the next step is for SWIh to go ahead and get the ol' hands dirty. SWIh would be more comfortable if someone said, "this is the way I did it, and it worked... do this or that instead of a standard brewer's fermentation". I guess real scientists are leaders and experimenters, not followers.

stooge · Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:54 pm

a relating question: the only usable Benzaldehyde it swis's location is a thick fluid said to contain also alcohol (no clue which) and water ... could that be used as is or ... ?

swis will try, but as he has no experience with this the only effect will probably be that it won't work and he won't know why ...

hAzzBEEn · Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:57 am

What was this benzaldehyde designed for? SWIh questions the purity of his/her Benzaldehyde, too. When it was ordered it was simply labelled "Benzaldehyde", but it is sold for a specific purpose, and purity wouldn't be an issue. If answering the question would be bad for your source, you can PM me about it.

I am serious about finding a doable method for this. Surely it is possible. Brewing is dirt cheap and OTC: water, sugar, yeast, nutrients... adding some Benzaldehyde and maybe some Acetaldehyde, and you're still looking at dirt cheap. Hell SWIh's Benzaldehyde was even semi-dirt-cheap.

stooge · Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:13 am

no problem, it's simple food additive, if that's the right word - almond arome for baking, and stuff ...
it is labled "contains bitter almond extract, alcohol, water" ... not very detailed, unfortunately.
Just the biggest amounts he found without vegetable oil like all the other brands. To order pure Benzaldehyd is pretty suspicious here for privat persons ...

it is of rather thick consistence, colorless and clear like water. swis guesses alcohol and water is better than vegetable oil, but that's all he can say ... he was about just to start a try with some bottles of this stuff in molasses, water and brewers yeast, but as he isn't able to check what the product is afterwards it seems a little useless to him. how does one know wether if there is some L-PAC in the brew or not??

just one other question: shouldn't also Phenylpropanolamin be doable from L-PAC instead of Ephedrin?

hAzzBEEn · Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:26 am

stooge · Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:40 am

swim will get some distillation equipment as soon as possible, but vacuum ... ugh ...
will look after the boiling points, but as he doesn't know what kind of alcohol they mixed in it might be a problem. Swim hopes it might work without purifying as alcohol will be build anyway while fermentation and water is in the mix also, so ... but that might be pure wishfull thinking.

on the other hand: he still got a 20 year old bottle of 250ml of Benzaldehyd, a third of it is full with solid benzoic acid ... could this be "reactivated" again, somehow?

somewhere swim read about the smell of L-PAC and he understood it like it would stink terrible ...
but, i guess anything with sugar and brewers yeast might smell somehow mean after a few days Smile

the bp for benzyl alcohol seems to be 205 C, couldn't find l-Phenylacetylcarbinol yet. did swim even spell it right?

hAzzBEEn · Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:19 pm

Once SWIy has distillation equipment, the vacuum part is easy. That is assuming that SWIy get distillation equipment with ground glass joints. Water aspirators that can screw into your water faucet are $20 or less. A used vacuum pump can be acquired for higher vacuums. SWIh still needs to re-up his/her lab equipment, too, as he/she disposed of most of it some time ago.

Alcohol should boil at a much lower temp than Benzaldehyde. Do you know where to look up this data if it's not handy? The Alcohol could be boiled out at the least (if the heat doesn't disturb the Benzaldehyde). I'm not sure about the benzoic acid. Does that precipitate over time from benzaldehyde? Couldn't SWIy just decant some of the benzaldehyde and use that, for now?

Have you brewed before? The smell of regular brewing is not very strong/loud. Some find it quite pleasent. For all I know, L-PAC might smell like shit. Again, a good source for such information would be nice.

About SWIy's food product benzaldehyde, you could request the MSDS from the manufacturer (do they have MSDS's for food products?). It should have some useful information such as the type of alcohol present. It shouldn't matter as the alcohol should boil at a lower temperature, anyway.

I think SWIy spelled it right. I prefer the term hydroxyphenylacetone. I read somewhere that phenylacetylcarbinol was originally named incorrectly, but the name stuck. It won't be long before were talking about HP2P or hydroxy-P2P.

hAzzBEEn · Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:36 pm

I have been looking for the physical properties of L-PAC (Other names: Phenylacetylcarbinol, 1-Phenylacetylcarbinol, 1-Hydroxy-1-phenylacetone, 1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-2-Propanone, NSC404583, 90-63-1). I checked in the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics and there was no listing for 2-Propanone, 1-hydroxy-1-phenyl-.

Can someone check the Merck Index for the properties?
I only have the CRC Handbook.
Any suggestions for finding this information?

hAzzBEEn · Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:38 pm

I found the properties, but only in a thread at Sciencemadness. The properties are quoted below and found in the following thread in a post by Organikum:

Hydroxylamine NH2OH Uses (and Production)

hAzzBEEn · Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:38 am

I found an old write-up that could be helpful for biotransformation beginners. It is actually some posts made at the Hive.