Welcome to Amerika. Senate passes National ID act.

nyarlothotep · Thu May 12, 2005 8:19 am

http://news.com.com/Senate+approves+electronic+ID+card+bill/2100-1028_3-5702505.html?tag=st_lh

Senate approves electronic ID card bill
Published: May 10, 2005, 8:10 PM PDT
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
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Last-minute attempts by online activists to halt an electronic ID card failed Tuesday when the U.S. Senate unanimously voted to impose a sweeping set of identification requirements on Americans.

The so-called Real ID Act now heads to President Bush, who is expected to sign the bill into law this month. Its backers, including the Bush administration, say it's needed to stop illegal immigrants from obtaining drivers' licenses.

If the act's mandates take effect in May 2008, as expected, Americans will be required to obtain federally approved ID cards with "machine readable technology" that abides by Department of Homeland Security specifications. Anyone without such an ID card will be effectively prohibited from traveling by air or Amtrak, opening a bank account, or entering federal buildings.

After the Real ID Act's sponsors glued it to an Iraq military spending bill, final passage was all but guaranteed. Yet that didn't stop a dedicated cadre of privacy activists from trying to raise the alarm in the last few days.

UnRealID.com, which calls the legislation a "national ID card," says that more than 10,800 people filled out its online petition to senators.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation hastily created a "Stop The Real ID Act!" campaign last week, and the ACLU denounced the bill as a measure that would create "a system ripe for identity theft." Security guru Bruce Schneier offered his own negative critique.
Big dollars in little devices

If the Real ID Act had been a standalone piece of legislation--instead of being embedded in an unrelated military spending bill--its passage in the Senate might have been less certain.

The House approved it in February by a relatively narrow vote of 261-161, and some senators had condemned it. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., warned last month that the Real ID Act creates "de facto national ID cards" and the National Immigration Law Center said it will make it harder even for legal immigrants and citizens to get drivers' licenses.

Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican and Real ID Act sponsor, applauded the Senate vote on Tuesday. "The Real ID is vital to preventing foreign terrorists from hiding in plain sight while conducting their operations and planning attacks," Sensenbrenner said. "By targeting terrorist travel, the Real ID will assist in our war-on-terror efforts to disrupt terrorist operations and help secure our borders."

Wording from the Act:
"no court shall have jurisdiction to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security, or order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision."

Looks like PoPeye was right. Welcome to Amerika.

java · Consumer

Welcome to the land of the unfree, where citizens rights are taken under the guise of threaths, and laws are signed in combo packages with vested interest by the lawmakers ......, yes this is done by all governments in order to pass unfavorable laws bundled together with favorable laws.

We have better wake up from our slummber and see who is running the world and how we can help to curve their ambitious quest for human control .......we are the people and laws were suppose to be made by the people for the people and not to favor multinational corporations in keeping their wealth and using humans as cash cows to help them realize their goals without any concern for us,......the people...................java

Lief · Sun May 29, 2005 9:27 am

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum8/HTML/002365.html

slacker · Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:05 am

national id card? look in your wallet, you already have one. its called a drivers license. if "the man" wants to spy on you he will do it regardless of whether or not you have a high tech new card. and speaking as somebody whos already had his identity stolen twice i welcome the idea, it will be harder for the next dickhead who steals my identity to get that license (which has also happened twice. nothing is more irritating than being accused of having a fake id when its the other asshole whos faking it). besides if you post on synthetikal youre probably already under surveilance. keep in mind also with 300 million people in the us you would be flattering yourself to think youre top priority.

MargaretThatcher · Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:50 pm

The same situation is arriving in the UK.

The ID card itself is a distraction - the real change is the creation of a national identity register. This will be a huge, Stasi style database of each person and their behaviour. Everything from religion, race, political affiliation to what library books you borrow, where you go and who you see will be recorded. The system will not prevent crime or terrorism. In fact, identity theft will likely increase due to the availability of a central register of information.

I don't need an ID card. I have no problems proving who I am when I need to. I don't see why the filth should be able to stop me and demand ID at any time. I don't see why I should have to carry an ID card at all times. Fuck them.

loki · guinea pig

hehe

i'm looking forward to the blooming of identity theft.

i am an avid reader of schneier's critiques of security systems, and he, in many places, clearly and lucidly points out that identity is one of the weakest points and most expensive measures in a security system.

The place they should be focussing their energy is on finding the sources of social discord and cutting them off at the roots. The national id card system will give a false sense of security, which will make the next 9/11 hurt all the more.

The more they rely on bogus security threat models, the more insecure society becomes.

The only way to ensure security is to have a society which bases its security on trust, and the only way to engender trust is to be honest and undefended. As sun tzu so lucidly points out, the more you rely on big guns, the less sophisticated a warrior you are.

slacker · Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:54 pm

loki, you kind of made my point on that one. i was stating that the national id card wont really allow the feds to keep a gestapo surveilance like the fearmongers say. and you are correct. the card wont prevent the next 9/11. but since its so easy to obtain fake drivers licenses it would be nice to have a standardized id card which wont be quite as easy to fake. and i see your point about a false sense of security, but americans are distrustful of government anyway so the only ones feeling this false security are the same ones who are too apathetic to care in the first place.

sun tzu also said that ultimate proficiency lies not in winning every battle, but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting. preventing terrorismt is tantamount to defeating it, since you cant kill ideology. by denying an obvious and simple route for enemy agents to obtain legitimate credentials we go a long way towards making it more difficult for osama and his buddies to conduct operations. but just like you said, its not a cure all. and the borders are definitely the weakest link.

loki · guinea pig

the weakest link is the corruption of the american government cartels. the weakest link is the hollow materialism of the american mainstream. america stands out in all the world as being the most shallow, hollow, psychopathic and immature culture on the planet, as well as THE most arrogant. it's hardly a surprise that they are garnering enemies left right and centre.

here's the problem with a national id system. Regular people sometimes lose all of their identification documents, in theft, fire, natural disaster. The security of an ID system is weakened by the fact that this happens, and they must therefore have measures to recover these identification, which is intensified in the situation of an rfid machine readable id card. It is through posing as an unfortunate victim of a loss of identification that most false identity documents are acquired.

Where is the weakest link in the system then? In the fact that people DO lose their cards. People DO have their identities stolen. Put your faith in identification as a means to preventing terrorism is like plugging a leaking boat with a wad of dough. It will appear to work at first, but it will not work for long. Remember also, that these terrorists have plenty of new people at their disposal. So what if they positively connect X thousand people and look out for them, there's another 10x as many willing to take their place, do their duty for allah in the jihad.

The only thing that will save america from terrorism is for the leaders to wake up to themselves. Stop funding the war in iraq. Admit that it was an intensely stupid mistake, and pay all the current funding for the war to the UN to clean it up. And don't send your stupid people to work for the UN, just the money (same goes for australia and the UK). Rout corruption from the government, ask for an external party to thoroughly investigate everything and clean it up. Change the tax laws so that corporations can't get away with contributing nothing to the system. Boost welfare and medical help. Fund more basic research, and find a better approach to getting good science done. Throw out all authorities in all government organisations who have done predominantly negative things to more people than not. Quit this self righteous arrogance, quit the fake for-show christianity.

in essence, the problem is deeply ingrained into the culture. the fact that it's all finger pointing on both sides of the situation does not mean that this should keep on going. back down. pull out. make amends, renew the committment to the people and make an example which shows that the american people are worthy of being the leaders of the greatest nation on earth.

If everyone can see that america has quit it's superficial bullshit and is genuinely making an effort to be a good global citizen, reining in it's vicious corporate plunderers who have been spreading their misery world wide, if they actually DO something to improve their reputation, even small but significant steps in places where any fool could see there has been enormous wrongdoing going on, then there will be no security problem.

if there was a sense of unified, 90+% sense of pride and integrity in the american population about their reputation as a nation, there would be trust. americans would not be looking furtively around every corner expecting someone to pounce on them and blow their heads off. they'd walk down their streets knowing that america is a place full of good people who do not make a habit of lying, cheating and otherwise doing each other down.

Sadly, this is a most unlikely scenario, but eventually this is how things will have to go, everywhere, otherwise, as a species, we deserve and will more than likely get, extinction.

zub · Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:38 am

margie, don't worry about having to carry a card around.
we'll soon have implants to help us remember who we are...and to help police return us to our home if we get lost.

loki, you've taken the heat off me with your un-american attitude.

what are you?
french?

loki · guinea pig

australian

i wasn't aware being a liar, cheat, thief, psychopath and so forth was supposed to be positive attributes of the american gestalt. don't get me wrong, there's a lot of positive aspects about american culture too, being mostly from pioneer stock the 'let's get the job done' attitude is a really good thing, the enthusiasm, the desire to be highly regarded and to achieve...

slacker · Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:55 am

slacker · Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:01 am

loki · guinea pig

oh please. would it make any sense at all to say that about an american who is regularly posting on this forum?

biometrics do not automatically make everything safer either btw. there's ways around those things. and as i said, plenty of willing faithful.

sorry about the christianity comment, it's just that the fundamentalist christians are in charge in the usa. fundamentalism is the problem, that, and believing that god said it's ok to break one of the primary laws 'thou shalt not kill'.

anyway, regardless of whatever. 'evil men profit when good men do nothing'. problem is, what needs to be done? I dunno but being an example of what you believe to be a 'good' person is a start anyway. it is my opinion that all this shit is really making the forging of a new frontier VERY important. those who don't want to be a part of babylon need to find a way to build a new zion, to use a funny metaphor.

slacker · Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:22 am

loki you appear to be quite intelligent and regardless of whether or not we agree i respect your point of view. id hate to have to debate you in an election. and im not being a wiseass. im just saying that as soon one feels hes being insulted he tends to tune out the argument that follows, no matter how logical or fact-based it may be. if the rest of the world wants us to change our ways, they may want to consider addressing us more respectfully. when they talk down to us like a bunch of idiots they display the same level of arrogance they're accusing us of. i dont mind if you state that specific people are psychopaths, idiots, and shallow. just try to avoid generalizations if possible. i would have never said something like that regarding australians. and im sure you have your share of assholes over there just like we do.

zub · Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:38 pm

so,

slacker's a republican?

holy moly.

here's a thought on gay marriage:

ALL marriage is gay. a traditional wedding is the gayest moment in a heterosexual man's life. the flowers; the church clothes; the doilees, etc.
all marriage is essentially a spiritual, or religious act; especially when it happens in a church. therefore, govt. needs to get out of it entirely...no incentives for "tying the knot"; gay, or not.
its the fair way to deal with it.