As soon as the thread pops up or goes off track, just delete the low quality posts, or the entire thread if need be all together.

It is simple, clean, does not insult the person creating the thread by making a mockery of them and put them on display, and it makes the admins look less evil. most people wont even know the thread started or the post was posted, then let people post as they please and when the admins rock in, delete away the crap..

I actually do delete a lot of the shit instead of sending it to vacuous. My guess is that we will be starting to outright delete a lot more posts in the near future and have rolling deletions in vacuous. At the same time, as Sedit said, perhaps the communal "shame" will prevent the staff from having to cull so many posts. Most users who don't see the worth of our rules aren't useful at TV, anyway. If they leave, the community won't loose anything valuable, and thus the community will be more attractive to users who have heretofore snubbed our group!

As i`m obviously on the in crowd / oilygarchys death list whatever i do or dont do and i care about the greater cause more than i do about being used as a scape goat i put my head out of the window being honest in an atempt to help make this site a good one ----->

"the crappy posters will never learn and will just keep posting there crap over and over again."

The only way anyone will learn is through being helped to understand . To work that should be done by leaders . Leaders who should take their responsibility seriously . Dictatership and amputations lead to a reign of fear . Its exactly the same as incapable parents who run away from their responsibility and lash out at their kids . Or husbands that cant deal with their own inner problems and lash out at their wives  . Saying its not my responsibility is running away from ones own / the sites problems .

Example -----> I am annoyed because he is annoying . Two things there . One is an asumption and the other a fact . The i am annoyed being the fact . We should deal with the facts . Why are we annoyed ? Why do we dislike someone ? The reasons are within ourselves and instead of trying to saddle others with our problems and believe that that will make them go away we should deal with our own problems .

The emperor wears no clothes and them scape goat are known and used in diferent forms as examples world wide in loads of different cultures through the ages . They are a sort of parable that came to being because of the lessons of history . Remember ...... "Those that dont learn the lessons of history are destined to relive them" . Good examples of the results of dictatorships and draconian and / or spartan disiplin are the jews , slavery , witches and the over 1000 year dark ages that the world still hasnt got over . Of cource sparta too . Look what happens to dictatorships . They stifle inovation , drive people away and are eventualy the cause of their own downfall . Just takeing a look at sites that went down shows that clearly .

"Admins are not here to be liked we are here to do a job and that job is preventing this forum from falling into the trenches like almost every other forum of its type has done."

Yes but "The end results from the effort applied " . Looking at sites that have failed i have never seen one that died because of the members . They all died because of the staff not being up to the job .

"its sort of a slap in the face to US when we have to take time out of our schedules "

If staff havent got time to do the job they shouldnt be staff . Is their time worth more than other peoples time ? Are they worth more than other people ? Parents that fail with their dutys loose them .

"to delete post from people who didn't even take the time to do a little research."

Again that should aply to the staff and all members and not just to those who arent flavour of the month . The happeneings in the archive thread and the THC thread are perfect examples . The X-Files are broken and its not just the doc files . There is a t least one txt file that is broken to . IF anyone had taken the time to have a look at them in stead of just shooting at me that would have saved all the trouble and me being insulted allthough i had waited  a month for help and had been very good amnnered and patient about it . The same goes for the THC thread . People who havent done any elementry research about cannbis takeing pot shots at me , carrying their bad fealiongs over from one thread to another . The thread about cultivateing ergot was the same , anyone who has done the , to me basic , research knows that cultivateing ergot is not the way to go . The same with the plant that noone has identifyed yet . Anyone who had done the most basic of research would know  at least what family it came from . There are only two choices and one has already been ruled out .

"and thus the community will be more attractive to users who have heretofore snubbed our group!"

The leaders set the tone . They and their skills and knowledge are the ones that are the adverts for a site . A few begginers and people that need help dont ruin sites . And before one gives them the blame one should ask oneself if it isnt because that level of leadership , the leaders knowledge and proficiency and the way a site is run . I know several people who used to post on the hive in 5 - 6 - 7 identitys filling whole threads on their own . They are still around and they dont post here and its not because of begginers .

"Often times people will reply to a thread adding good content too it, but it becomes off topic and useless - or is, but still contains some good information. I like to keep those posts visible" - "Additionally if you delete the post -- often times people will repost it thinking it was accidentally deleted, didn't post properly, etc and repost an even worse version."

Good points . ,But shoveing them into a dustbin thats closed and trying to shame them are signs of intellectual impotency or imaturity .

"I like the "shame" faction to it as well and think it is helpful in making them think at least once about what it is they are posting.." - "Same goes for the warning system when the earn the green badge of shame -"

I dont feel shame . I feel falsely and one sidedly shamed and i`m proud of the watched brand mark . Again one rule for the staff and another for the members kills sites . Looking back at what happened in that thread and being honest i8t should be obvious why i said what i said . Telling me not to fuck something up again that i hadnt fucked up and where i had bent over backwards to try to solve the problem in a good mannered , respectfull and patient way was below the belt . That no one had noticed overv the years that the X files are totaly fucked up and have elementry spelling mistakes shows how little research people have done . They are now very nearly fixed and when i`ve finished they will be in a 1000 % better condition than they were .

"Also; this site was modelled after sciencemadness which is an amazing site with good content, members, and so on"

That site isnt primarily about underground chemistry and that this one is is a big reason that more people from that site dont come here . And the reputation of science madness isnt all good ....... i`ve seen a lot of complaints by better chemists than anyone here .


The things that make a site thrive are good minimal leadership , makeing people feel at home , that they have something to say and by creating an atmosphere of friendship and warmth . By the rules being aplyed equaly to all ...... especialy to the staff ...... and by not allowing in crowds , pseudo elites and mobbing and witch hunts by them ,. The history of what happened to black , mexican , chinese people , women , jews and moslems being good examples of what happens when people like that get into power . .

well i think we should definantly have a beginners section where we can post what we like, then keep the other part all clean and propper

This has been discussed to death, I have setup votes, and have thought about it very hard, I was even the one that started the thread on it. After hearing everyones thoughts on this, and seeing the votes, not only do I not want one due to all the reasons I have heard, but also the majority does not want one.

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1025.0.html

Additionally, don't we already have one that qualifies?

The Den of Iniquity
Discuss any topic. The Den of Iniquity is lightly moderated.


@TLS; If you don't like the rules of this site, or how it is ran - why be here so often?
If you do not want to be a target, why be so vocal?

"the crappy posters will never learn and will just keep posting there crap over and over again."

The only way anyone will learn is through being helped to understand .

I call bullshit, when people actually follow the rules, this site and all of its members are way more than willing to help; in fact it is their hobby to find information for other people and explain the process to them on these subjects, and often do so when the OP did not follow the rules. When people do not follow the rules - It not only ruins the quality of the site, but it also makes it more difficult for the needy to be helped.

The things that make a site thrive are good minimal leadership , makeing people feel at home , that they have something to say and by creating an atmosphere of friendship and warmth .

Thrive? In what sense? Many different people posting useless off-topic and friendly discussion while others try to communicate the ideas the site was built to share? I do not want an atmosphere of friendship and warmth, I want one of intellectual conversation with references. Friendship and warmth belong on facebook, as it is a social network. This site is not really a social network; its a place to discuss various aspects of chemistry, pharmacology, and the law that pertains to it.

You know what really makes the site thrive? Following the rules, and posting useful content with references..

Isn't it so strange that those who have the lowest quality of posts, most warnings, and follow the rules least are often the most vocal about how the site is ran and beg for change?

I try to listen to what people have to say, and I consider their suggestions when it comes to this site - but in the end, it is at my discretion if I am going to modify the site.
If you do not like how a forum is ran, at the discretion of the owner, what can you do but to flee to another forum, or start your own?

I do not want an atmosphere of friendship and warmth, I want one of intellectual conversation with references. Friendship and warmth belong on facebook, as it is a social network. This site is not really a social network; its a place to discuss various aspects of chemistry, pharmacology, and the law that pertains to it.

I dissagree, why would i want to give all my hard earned work, experiments and results to people i am not even friends with? how will that benifit me?

You tell me vesp, why the hell would anyone want to share thier experiments and results, (when they might very well be breaking new ground) and discovering new things off thier own steam, what does it benifit them to share the results with people they dont have any relationship with?

at the hive, all of the members knew each other, there were girls there too and there was alot of general discussion and social side to it.

You want high quality but you mods know that serious quality does not need to ask questions on forums. they find all the answers on thier own. The whole time i have been here i can honestly say that other than all the practical tips and advice from jon, i have not "needed" this forum one bit and neither has any of you senior moderators.

one of lughs favorite sayings "its been covered elsewhere" really applys all the way to the point where you dont need the forum at all.. so whats it for?

You know what really makes the site thrive? Following the rules, and posting useful content with references..

Yeah, but who would even care about my results? there are like 10 people on here a day, not like the hive where hundreds were there getting into the information

Isn't it so strange that those who have the lowest quality of posts, most warnings, and follow the rules least are often the most vocal about how the site is ran and beg for change?

the lone stranger is an emotional guy, when he and i came to vespiary around the same time, there were no rules enforced really, it was only few members, and everyone seemed friendly and inteligent. All these new rules and strict enforcing came after we grew attatched to the way things WERE.

YOU guys know you were the ones who let the quality slide, not us, so the least you can do, while you work on kicking members out who you dont like, is try not to be assholes about it in the process. like the squabbling between java and the lone stranger its ridiculous, java as a respected old bee and a mod he needs to take the higher ground.
 
The threads ekindu been deleting were written up by people when thats all they knew, its new to them, its exciting and its the best they got, people arnt here to provide free professional methylman write ups for nothing in return. 

i had 230 posts here, i studied so fkn hard all the time, he chimes in after not being anywhere to be seen for months and deletes my thread that broke no rules, was researched to the best of my ability as a learner, provided sketches, and references.

Then i asked him to at least clear up where i am off in my chemistry of it, he replies

"this forum is not for begginers, i dont have time to teach basic chem"

its like you mods love deleting and blasting people but rarely will you take time to teach people properly or do posts that are longer then a few sentences.

Vesp has a favorite saying "ever tried this" well i know member are trying new things, new experiments and i for one have very positive results to share on a new a new wacker. ill share with people i am close to that i know are interested, but why would i post my results here? whats in it for me? and as i said earlier, why would i give up all my hard work i get the attitude that i get? I figure ill just keep it to myself and i think thats what other member will likely do aswell.

because whether you like the post or not, why would we take a chance at being ridiculed by over the top mods who are hard to please, and have a general "holier than thou" attitude.


i mean no disrespect ok, because i dont need this place, i just like it.

why would i want to give all my hard earned work, experiments and results to people i am not even friends with? how will that benifit me?

You might get noticed by people from whom you can benefit. It is well known that many of the best contributors have retreated to closed forums for fear that their methods will lead to precursors becoming watched or scheduled. If you post a one-step MDMA synthesis, you'll probably be asked to keep it quiet. You weren't the first one to come up with said route, and the reason it is still available to YOU is that those before you kept it quiet. For instance, cooks don't post pill extractions on the boards much anymore because, as soon as the post a facile, working method, the gakk formulations change. Since the RC scene (i.e., the online drug trade) is working up a head of steam again, most people who post about the designer drugs are also refusing to post their info in the open for fear of new bans (i.e., JWHs, mephedrone, PCP analogs, etc). Honestly, the speed with which new compounds hit the markets, after being discussed at some boards, is amazing. Think of the open boards as your proving ground.

An improvement to Wacker oxidations (especially if presented in the Other Chemistry section as nothing more than an OTC functional group transformation) is quite welcome, provided it is written up well. If you claim that this "improvement" is really that, I expect you to show proof.

i had 230 posts here, i studied so fkn hard all the time, he chimes in after not being anywhere to be seen for months and deletes my thread that broke no rules, was researched to the best of my ability as a learner, provided sketches, and references.

Then i asked him to at least clear up where i am off in my chemistry of it, he replies

Quote

"this forum is not for begginers, i dont have time to teach basic chem"

Obviously that quote is not direct, since I use correct sentence structure, spelling, apostrophes, and punctuation 95% of the time. I did send two, if not three, solid PMs to you and attempted to explain the problems with the reactions you posted. Only after you clearly could not understand my explanation did I throw up my hands and say that I didn't have time for that shit. I figured you were high/e-tarded. You're right, I will not write a whole fucking textbook chapter tailored to your needs.

Please do not attempt to smear other members of the community with half-truths.

Honestly if you shared results, with references, and good information - people would love you for it. Try it once. I'd be happy to put it into the mostly forgotten about but I suppose honourable Publications section, or as a sticky - if it were good enough

Are you joking? most of the claims i make or threads i post in i include a ref, i have posted like 20 refs around the place and helped heaps of people whenever the topic came to something i know about

You seem to think i care about "the new regieme" i dont, most of my messy posting or ripping on methylman i was drunk or rolling or both and i had every reason to get pulled up for it. I am not worried one bit about being banned because i know i have alot to contribute and alot to teach, all i ever needed to worry about was just checking my ego

edit.. i think i mis interpreted what vesp said

why is it you like this place? Does it offer something that many other related forums do not? How did this site get what it "offers" that makes you like it?

I am a designer at heart, and an unqualified engineer. I have a passion for making things better and easier, finding new methods to things, experimenting and testing the boundrys of a reaction in a bid to simplify it. I am here to give, not take.

I like this place because it isnt full of dull meth cooks who ask the same shit over and over, like the collective seems to have, and pnaut is empty. All the members whom i met at pnaut, NPH, Tregar, poisininthestain, sedit, and many more who know me from a couple years ago are here now, because that place is empty and it is too public.

No changes in the rules have been made since you folks came to this web site, all that's changed is that now the rules are being enforced more often due to the fact that many more violations have occurred 

Lugh, a couple new rules have been added, and yeah, the old ones enforced more. Im just saying, you cant blame the people when they are just doing what they always did..

Please do not attempt to smear other members of the community with half-truths

Ekindu, ok you are right, you did send a couple of posts to clear up the chem, but this was after the thread was sent into the vacous posts section and that had me pissed off that it couldnt be cleared up in public so we could all learn something..

As for my wacker, since i got here i have had 1 task and 1 main direction, Aside from the chemistry things on the side, i have been working on a new 02 wacker. I have posted like 13 refs around here on the wacker. The DMA PdCl2 02 recyclable wacker. the ketone is a simple solvent extraction and the DMA PdCl2 can be recharged with oil and ran again several times. I have worked months in study of it.

vesp

You guys seem to think it is a MOD vs User styled community, and its really not - at least I do not think it is...

I know what a mod is and i know who they are, doesnt mean getting into little bitch fights with members isnt childish, but they can be who they wanna be hey thats not my worry.

Many members follow the rules just fine and really do appreciate our (me & mods) works...
I believe there is a silent majority that is in agreement with me, more so than you (shake) and the long stranger.

you act like you and your mods works are the only ones helping people. I have posted in alot of threads simple thankyous to the effort i have seen the mods go to, wizard, ekindu, lugh, sedit, no1uno all of them i have made sure i showed thanks, so dude you have a distorted veiw of what team you think im on

i wish some of that silent majority would speak up, there are quite a few that i have spent alot of time helping and teaching them all i can teach, i have never turned my nose up at someone who needs help.

Lugh, a couple new rules have been added, and yeah, the old ones enforced more. Im just saying, you cant blame the people when they are just doing what they always did..

People that post sources, attempt to engage in public trading, start threads about dangerous procedures and attack the staff when told to comply with the rules would have been banned on the Hive    Those that were members then know that such nonsense wasn't tolerated    You folks can complain as much as you want about the staff doing their job, that's what we get for trying to keep this community online 

A suggested upgrade to the board:

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=2481

I think its ok with that 25 posts (just had 25 but i havent noticed any changes so far?). Some people can easily reach 10 posts or much more, it is not useful in proving they arent bots, more important it can prove if they are idiots or just want to get spoon-feed. I dont want to write recipes for people that without an easy to follow-recipe would never attempt to play around with dangerous chemicals.
Imagine somebody that gets hurt because he read an easy looking write-up written like a recipe. People are simply idiots, and if you make it easy for them then they get used to be spoon-feed, some will even get angry if they arent supported anymore!

I dont need this community to help me really, but i am very lucky that it exists, just to know there are other people like me out there, people that actually understand what I say when i speak about chemistry. This is the most important thing that this forum offers his members.
However, I had over 20 posts when I noticed the first time there is such a 25 posts rule.
And I dont had that much useful informations to contribute... But a community is kept alive by its members, so i decided it wont be annoying even if I dug out some 2-3 months old threads, just to give the other people some hints that here actually is somebody alive and willing to participate.
I was really disappointed when i realized that i had read everything i wanted to know(lower standards, and repeat^^) Most things are already covered here, there is obviously not that much to say here.
The really interesting stuff are mostly pipe dreams or some exotic projects. Because the basic stuff has pretty much became general knowledge now for the contributing majority here.

Supposedly this thread is about Vespiary site issues    The twenty five post requirement at the Collective was instituted in spite of objections and is discussed in many threads that are accessible to any member who browses the index   It was created to separate those who will participate from those who won't  Those who choose to participate get more complete access, those who choose to lurk seem to complain a lot    As far as searching in SMF:

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php?action=search

works very well as long as the index isn't corrupted    As always, the end results from the effort applied