Author Topic: Codeine to Hérone  (Read 264 times)

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Codeine to Hérone
« on: October 10, 2010, 04:35:12 PM »
Oh hi  :D

There is the fruit of many research about a compound named Herone (or Oxidized heroin). That's actually made from oxymorphone but I wondered if this could work :




1) Oxidation of codeine to 14-hydroxy-codeinone has been tried and achieved by myself. It work very well !
2) We know from "Oxymorphone and oxycodone synthesis" (Rhodium.Arch.) that a simple hydrogenation reduce the 7,8 bond and then, give oxycodone. But, HI reduction would, of course reduce 7,8 bond, but it will demethylate the 3 position and reduce to simple hydroxy the 6th position to give 14-hydroxy-morphinone.
Which is the morphinone analogue of 14-hydroxy-codeinone
2)bis) The 2nd step could be done by, first, hydrogenation with HCL-5% PD/C and then HBR-demethylation
3) Then simply 6-monoacetylation with GAA+ electricity will give 6-monoacetyl-14-hydroxy-morphinone.


TA-goddamn-motherfuckin-geddon-DA


Sources :
14-hydroxymorphinone and 8, 14-dihydroxydihydromorphinone U.S Patent 2772270
Oxymorphone and Oxycodone from Codeine (Rhodium. Archive.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 04:50:13 PM by NaBH4 »
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2010, 06:26:11 PM »
no no you should leave the 14-hydroxycodiene alone and esterify it at the 14 position.
the propionoxy ester 18 times more powerful than morphine the cinnamyl ester 118 times more powerful than morphine.
it's akin to the bently compounds all your doing is exteding a certain part of the phenantherene nucleus with a lipophilic group cinnamyl happens to be the most.

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2010, 07:54:38 PM »
Thanks for your reply Jon  :D

I thought about 14-cinnamoyloxycodeinone but potency and euphoria aren't necessarily linked and i was afraid that's won't be a good drug.
Do you have patent on the dynamism of the compound ?

'cause Codeine --> 14-hydroxycodeinone is simply made with potassium dichromate and 14-hydroxycodeinone ---> 14-cinnamoyloxycodeinone can be simply made with Cinnamoyl chloride and Sulfuric acid. I have patent on the synthesis but not on the effects of that molecule.

And what about a 14-cinnamoyloxy-dihydrocodeinone ?
That's 14-cinnamoyloxycodeine with a reduction of the 7,8 bond to give strenght and Powaa


--->
14-cinnamoyloxy-dihydrocodeinone
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 08:04:23 PM by NaBH4 »
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2010, 08:56:16 PM »
bullshit dichromates oxidize it at the benzylic c-10 carbon and leave you with a mess, opiate chemistry is much more complex than you think it is.
substitution at the 14 position leads to increased euphoria just look up the effects of oxymorphone.
another thing i have made 14 propionoxy7,8dihydrocodienone and it is'nt as potent as the unsaturated version sar relationships in opiates can't be understood on paper it just does'nt work that way.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 08:58:50 PM by jon »

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2010, 09:18:15 PM »
bullshit dichromates oxidize it at the benzylic c-10 carbon and leave you with a mess, opiate chemistry is much more complex than you think it is.

Sorry but their are patents on it : Sodium/potassium dichromate in an acetic acid bath DO oxidize codeine to 14-hydroxycodeinone ...

I'm probably stupid but chemists aren't....
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2010, 09:21:23 PM »
try it out and see for yourself
i've already seen lab notes of this being attempted by competent chemists
and nothing would crystalize.
patents are notouriously obfuscated.

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2010, 09:25:50 PM »
Congrats for reading what I wrote...
I said I tried and successed in the synthesis of 14-hydroxycodeinone.

Codeine base was dissolved in an acetic acid bath and then refluxed with a saturated potassium dichromate solution. A/B extraction gave 14-hydroxycodeinone which was hydrogenated with 5% Pd/C to give oxycodone. And that, sorry for bulshitting, WORKS !

Damn, what did you ate Jon ?!  :D
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 09:28:20 PM by NaBH4 »
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2010, 09:32:07 PM »
well maybe the process he ran was run under different conditions what are you actual yeilds?
 i believe in the failed processes a stronger acid was used so that may be the sticking point, i don't know.
i'll show you a paper that says it does'nt work but, i'm not going to scour the net looking for those notes.
you did'nt say what your yeilds are, neither did the paper.
is that a coincedience?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 11:51:21 PM by jon »

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2010, 09:42:15 PM »
PATENT BATTLE  :D

I've notes about Pot.Dichromate under Acidic condition, followed by a H2O2 oxidation to give actual 14-hydroxy-codeinone.

Oh c'mon Jon, keep smiling, we aren't in a battle you know...
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2010, 09:48:34 PM »
now your contradicting yourself first you said you used dichromate only now your'e saying you used h2o2 sucessively i'm getting more confused all you did is cite some half baked shite on rhodium i'm telling you i have solid evidence it does'nt work one a report of a trial and another on a paper dealing with transitional metal oxidations of codiene directly to 14-hydroxycodienone i would'nt be asking these questions if i did'nt know what i'm talking about
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 10:03:21 PM by jon »

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2010, 10:08:16 PM »
source from Synthesis of Essential drugs

Source from 14-hydroxycodeinone : an IMPROVED synthesis


Now seriously shut the hell up, I tried to make some jokes and stuff, make you smile, I don't know....be happy ?
Cure your melancholia...


Tu veux des patents sur le fait que le beurre s'étale bien sur mes tartines ou ça te paraît trop infaisable ?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 10:12:04 PM by NaBH4 »
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

Vesp

  • Administrator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,130
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 10:11:02 PM »
Lets stay focused on the science, no need for personal attacks.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 10:35:28 PM »
ok it says oxidation of **thebaine** with potassium dichromate and acetic acid in the reference you provided.

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2010, 10:38:19 PM »
let me explain to you why this does'nt work there has to be a diene system on ring D for oxidation to occur at the 14 position the rearrangement occurs under basic conditions or sometimes slightly nuetral conditions due to keto enol tautomerism.
this can't happen in acidic conditions the intermediate is known as neopinone.

drone1240

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 01:26:46 AM »
I would be curious to know your yields as well. Everything else sounds good.
acting in accordance with the dictates of reason....

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 05:59:46 AM »
Starting from 10 grams of Codeine base, I obtained approx 5 grams of 14-hydroxycodeinone (or maybe something else but the quantity was 5g). After a 5% Pd/c hydrogenation of 7,8 bong, and an acid/base extraction, I obtained nearly 4,5gr of Oxycodone sulfate.

That's speculations because I don't know if the intermediate is or not 14-hydroxycodeinone and if the final product is Oxycodone.

Finally, concentrated Oxycodone in water solution was drop on a QuickScreen Oxycodone test cassette . After 10min, the result was positive.


edit : the positive answer from The oxycodone test was just an information. 'Cause it could be any other compound nearly close to oxycodone. But that test won't be positive for a concentrated codeine solution, that's a good point ^^


Coincidence ? I THINK NOT !


Have a good day
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:02:23 AM by NaBH4 »
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 06:43:59 AM »
 can you provide a peer reviewed journal citation or a patent number dealing with the direct oxidation of codeine to 14-hydroxycodeinone?
besides some half baked writeup from a drug cook?
this is the data i have on the oxidation of codeinone to 14-hydroxy not codeinone ie. it does'nt work
see table 3 entry 10
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/hydroxycodeinone-1.pdf

it's a well known fact that enzyme multiplied immunoassay tests are indiscriminate.

solidstone

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 08:02:15 AM »
Why not do a mp test to supplement your results?  More indication to the certainty of your product is necessary, providing information as fact without verification is misleading and will likely cause some headaches for others.

NaBH4

  • Pupae
  • **
  • Posts: 57
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2010, 08:34:41 AM »
'cause thos tests works thanks to a discrimination of molecules not identification of each molecules.
That's commonly used for discriminates opiates like Heroin, oxycodone or oxymorphone which are pretty distant derivatives of morphine.

But if the final product of the synthesis I tried is very close to oxycodone but not really it, and not even something commonly used, there are lot of chance that the test won't discriminate the substance.

Tests who make a difference between 14-hydroxycodeinone and 14-hydroxydihydrocodeinone, for example, are called gaz chromatography  ;D
"All simple monkeys with alien babies, amphetamines for boys, crucifixes for ladies ...."

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: Codeine to Hérone
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2010, 03:29:23 PM »
just run some tlc plates there has been no reference of that working in the literature i saw a few examples of it in in chem abs but it did'nt yeild 14-hydroxycodeinone it yelded some quirky dimer.