Author Topic: Help identifying mushrooms.  (Read 197 times)

Sedit

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Help identifying mushrooms.
« on: May 26, 2011, 07:43:18 PM »
My session timed out so ill have to upload the pictures in different post now. I had a long description of them but im pissed and not going to go all out typing it again.

They where found on wood chips, a giant mulch pile.

I included a nickle for scale.

They look simular to psychoactive varietys but I want someone with a more trained eye to look.

I will soon get spore print and microscopic spore photos...

That about sums it up I think..
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Sedit

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 07:47:26 PM »
more photos Nickle for scale
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Sedit

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 07:50:05 PM »
Much larger one with a funny wood like texture to the cap. This is not the same kinbd as in the other photos. Most of the tecture has fallen off so i took a picture of a small piece that still contains it.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Sedit

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 09:36:12 PM »
A better photo of the texture on the large one and an idea on the scale of the large one compaired to the small ones.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 11:06:25 PM »
They are nothing psychoactive . There arent many good one that grow on wood and they dont look like that . The foto i added is of Psilocybe cyanescens that i grew outdoors on wood chips ..

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
If they were in a cow/sheep field, I would have said either Psilocybe semilanceata, or the dung roundhead (the latter is non-psychoactive) on woodchips however, not a chance.

I believe, looking at the texture of the stem, it to be either a species of Mycena, or perhaps a Coprinus, my vote is on the latter, specifically Coprinellus micaceus, syn. Coprinus micaceus, the mica inky cap or mica cap. Spore print if so will be dark brownish to purplish-brown, and the fungus will deliquesce, I.E turn to slime, after a while. Spore shape under microscope will be shield-diamond shaped.

Edible, if this species dx is correct, but pretty much worthless, although I have never bothered eating it myself.
Common as jenny mccarthy, and worth about as much.


As for those cyans....nice! I have a patch or two I like to visit as it gets cold out and they start fruiting. Picked kilos a year or two ago. Bloody strong buggers, but I think they might have a high psilocin to psilocybin ratio, as they do not dry for storage particularly well.

Beware of the lookalike of this species though, Galerina spp., whilst there is one, rare, psychoactive species, most of them contain the same lethal, delayed-action hepatotoxic cyclopeptides the amatoxins, that are found in the second-deadliest family of mushrooms there are the subsection Phalloidea of the genus Amanita, suchas A.arochae, A.phalloidess and A.virosa (often cited as the deadliest, but on a fatal dose, I have discovered something perhaps 50x more toxic is around, perhaps even twice that...Podostroma cornu-damae, a japanese club-like fungus, that unusually for a macrofungus is absolutely fuckin' loaded to the gills...or would be if it had any, with tricothecine mycotoxins, and satratoxin-H, 0.5g of this lil bugger has killed a guy who eat a little piece pickled in sake)

It CAN look like a small leadpoisoner too (Entoloma sinuatum, which very likely won't kill you....eat any though and you will very quickly wish it had)
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The Lone Stranger

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 11:39:06 PM »
Not wanting to argue but they dont look like any Psilocybe semilanceata i have ever seen ........ and i have seen a LOT ..

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 11:53:35 PM »
I was referring to the general color, morphology and stem length to cap ratio, as well as the nipple-shaped umbo (tweak tweak) present on some.

I did, bear in mind, say they were NOT libs. They don't grow as saprotrophs on wood, they grow NEAR (but not on) shit.
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Wizard X

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2011, 12:39:02 AM »
Albert Einstein - "Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds."

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2011, 03:33:27 AM »
That first pic I am almost certain is Coprinellus micaeus.

I am unawar of any of that family that are dangerous, however, avoid all the genus but C.comatus, if consuming alcohol with the meal or within a few days of eating the mushrooms. Some contain coprine, an aldehyde dehydrogenase inhibitor (I.E it does what disulfiram or metronidazole do with alcohol, and it is NOT pretty)

Won't kill you though, and if one does not drink for a few days, then coprine containing species can be eaten.

Coprinus was originally one genus, but it got hived off into several, such as Coprinus, Coprinellus and Leucocoprinus (think this one might be monophyletic, but I'm not too sure), originally the genus was to contain all those gilled fungi that underwent deliquescence-melted into black goo.


Ink used to be made from some species, actually.
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Sedit

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2011, 03:59:32 AM »
After seeing pics of that species I agree. I had a feeling it was some ink cap but its hard to say. I honestly hate that entire genus because the look mimics the goodies all to well.

The larger one I feel is a type of the same family but its early to tell. I have basicly placed them on a screen for drying to see which ones melted and which didn't.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2011, 01:55:23 PM »
Tips.....

Never pick mushrooms unless you are 110 % sure of what they are .
Never pick black mushrooms because they have gone off = dont eat and they are between very hard to impossible to identify .
Never pick baby mushrooms because they can also be very hard to identify .
Never rely only on books . The only real way to learn how / what to pick is get someone who REALY knows to take you for a hunt

If you wanna know what something is ...... ASK ....... someone who knows . Take pictures of it growing so one can see what it grows in and in what conditions . Then pictures of the stem from the ground to where the gills join the stem and then a picture of the cap from underneath .









HEY !!! WOW !!!! What a suprise ....... i might be a piece of shit as far as chemistry is concerned ........ BUT ........i HAVE got something to add to this forum ............. chemistry gods learning something from ME !!!! .................. ROTFL ...........
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 01:57:20 PM by The Lone Stranger »

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2011, 04:35:15 PM »
Also, a little more to add from our resident  from-preteens mycologist:D

When harvesting a mushroom, take a little substrate with you, as well as samples of the vegetation from nearby (trees within several meters, and small woody shrubs the distance from the latter I advise depends on the plant species, some have shallow root beds that spread out some distance, others go deep into the ground, such as a taproot, although the latter morphology is really more common in herbaceous stuff)

Many fungi are what is called mycorrhizal, from 'myco-' meaning 'fungus' and 'rhizome' I.E roots, lit. 'mushroom roots', where the hyphae of the fungus form a symbiotic, closely intertwined composite between the fine roots of a plant, supplying and taking nutrients, such as the silver birch or pine species and the fly agaric, A.muscaria. Other examples include the deathcap, Amanita phalloides, which likes to grow in broadleaved, deciduous woodlands, particularly around oak, and beech trees, or the much sought-after matsutake (Tricholoma matsutake), which has a few really nasty lookalikes, such as the kidney-failure-inducing Amanitas in the subsection Lepidella, in the genus Amanita (representative members of which include A.thiersii, A.smithiana, A.abrupta (which contains aminohexanedieneoic acid derivatives and some funky aminoacids, which are hepatotoxic and nephrotoxic, although chemically totally unrelated to the cyclopeptide amatoxins)

Cut puffballs in half. Most are saprophytic, growing on rotten wood, rather than in free soil, although the giant puffball is an exception there, as far as I know, at least, those of small to moderate size, some, such as some Calvatia species, and the giant puffball, grow simply too massive to possible be confused, but its happened that egg-stage Amanitas of various kinds, including deadly ones have been taken in mistake of edible puffballs (and very, very delicious-I love giant puffball sliced, dipped in whipped egg, and fried in batter, sort of like eggy bread)

The Amanitas are nearly always, if not always (I know not of any saprophytic species, although A.thiersii does grow in places where there is a high cellulose, rather than lignin content in the local plantlife and is believed to break down cellulose in order to form sugars to feed off, although it may well be an ectomycorrhizal fungus, however, it grows on lawns...grass as a symbiote perhaps? it would be most strange to find a non-mycorrhizal Amanita)


Dig up the mushroom with a spoon or knife, don't yank it up or snap the caps off etc, unless it is a very distinct species you are harvesting, such as A.muscaria, I take the caps of these, and leave the stems, as I don't want anything but cap tissue for curing and drying, this however is a rare exception, for a very distinct species which grows in massive profusion where I make my annual harvest, with very specific habitat, and is specifically being looked for.

If you pull a mushroom up or cut it off at the ground, you risk leaving the base of the stem in the ground, which is a most foolish proposition, lazy, and stupid, once one knows better. The stem base in many species is a very important characteristic, such as in the Amanitas-does it have a bulb? a big sack-like volva? just a few scales? this is information which with some mushrooms, means the difference between life and death, or spending the rest of your life on dialysis and anti-rejection immunosuppressant medication.

Just do it!

And in the case of Clavicipitacea, of course taking the sclerotia, and taking some still in the grass/grain seedhead, in fact, I take the entire grass plant, just one is needed per type of grass, if there are different species growing then I take a sample, sclerotia still in situ within the host, of the entire grass, leaves, stem and sometimes the roots, although the latter is really not nescessary, I am, by nature, just extremely thorough)

Black mushrooms-good advice. Although there are a few species which do blacken not as a sign of age. Such as certain Hygrophorus (the waxcaps) species, notably the conical waxcap and blackening waxcap, these go quite literally jet black as they grow out of infanthood. And certain Russulas and Lactarius, Russula nigricans is edible, but ugly as sin, and reputedly not very tasty. Although not to be confused with the similar looking R.subnigricans, which contains a really, really nasty poison, cycloprop-2-ene-1-carboxylic acid, this is the same toxin found in the sought after 'edible' species Tricholoma equestre, the man-on-horseback or knights's shield, and causes severe rhabdomyolysis-basically your muscle tissue melts and the breakdown products flood your kidneys and shut them down....very unpleasant indeed. T.equestre does this too, although has a long history of being eaten, tends to do so only if multiple meals are eaten within a few days, or a glut is consumed at once. I avoid the species entirely however.

Chemical reagents are also very valuable in identifying mushrooms. And are indispensable, absolutely indispensable when dealing with the two genuses Russula and Lactarius in particular, and valuable when IDing Amanitas.

Tell you what, I shall start a thread, on the fundamentals of mushroom IDing, sound like a good idea?

It isn't quite true that the only way is to learn from a master, it is a very good way, and advisable, but I can well imagine that it isn't always possible. I had nobody to learn from. I have had one nasty episode of GI distress, in all the time I have been foraging, and that was not from a misidentified mushroom, but eating one not toxic, but known to be edible, but poor, at least according to Roger Phillips et al. Phallus impudicus, the stinkhorn. Eat the egg stage, and suffered for it, they really didn't agree with me, although I couldn't stomach more than a little to begin with. (The eggs of these are very, very different in cross section, and much bigger than unopened Amanita buttons, and are surrounded with a layer of gelatinous slime-perhaps t is this I should have eaten rather than the inner core, I don't know, but I won't be trying it again)

The only person who has ever been with me on a foray, are the bitch ex housemate, an old friend of mine from childhood, picking libs, cyans and fly agarics, and my old man, when I was of an age that I wasn't really able to go places other than the local playing fields where I used to live, as I was too young to have my own transport. He has learned a couple of things, but that, was from me, and is nowhere near my level of competence/experience I am sure.

Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

oldguy

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 08:19:04 PM »
Always take a spore print, an essential characteristic.

A rule Paul Stamets gave in the first edition of Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World was that if a gilled mushroom has a purplish brown to black spore print AND the flesh bruises blue, the candidate mushroom is likely a psilocybin-containing mushroom.  The bluing may be more subtle on weaker species.  He emphasized he knew of no exception to the rule, but that doesn't mean there aren't any, and emphasized one should positively identify any mushroom before eating.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 08:45:52 PM »
Pluteus cervinus (pink to brown spores, low levels of psilocybin), and Gymnopilus spp. (rusty brown sporeprint) and there are some funky as hell puffball-looking buggers in australia that blue, and contain psilocybin/psilocin. No gills to speak of.

There are some rather funky oddballs outthere outside the genus Psilocybe. Including some inocybes (wouldn't touch them, not a sodding chance, that genus in its entirety is on my not-to-be-eaten list)
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2011, 10:49:15 PM »
I`ve seen loads of P.Semilanceata that didnt blue and were not noticeably weeker than those that did blue ..

Yup a spore print is a good way to identify a mushroom but only if one knows how and has a microscope .

Books can be good to but many ? / all ? Psilocybe mushrooms look diferent when they are wet and dry and there are also variations . I have seen what i would say are 4 different kinds of semilanceata <------- not inclueding muties .

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2011, 04:52:35 AM »
There is also a very close lookalike species, although tending to be more conical in appearance than P.semi, and more pronouncly tapered from bottom to top, this species also bears the pathognomonic 'nipple' shaped umbo of P.semi.

This is another psilocybe, and also highly active, as is the lib, but I can't remember for the razorblade buggery of me what the binomial is. Anybody? c'mon, help a rum-soaked toad deity out here.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

The Lone Stranger

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2011, 06:42:22 PM »
Dunno . Was thinking P.Pelliculosa but that grows in the woods and then when i had a beak in P.Stamets "Psilocybin mushrooms of the world" i saw several more lookalikes . Would like to know though .......

Has Toady ever tried inhalation ? = Hot plate , eye dropper , towel over head , drops of rum , vapor , breath in and hold ? Or 2 mls IV ? Very supriseing and a much better hit than drinking it ..... plus MUCH cheaper ..........

Tsathoggua

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2011, 06:57:07 PM »
Nope, he hasn't.

Sees no need to IV alcohol...sheesh.......anything over about 10% alcohol damages and irritates veins also.
Shite drug to begin with, it isn't going to get better, he would rather not waste the contents of his IV kit for that.

It doesn't come out to play very often and not without a fairly decent reason. surely not for a bottle of rum, and besides if any alcoholic spirit were going to be diluted and IV'ed, it would have to be something like vodka, I wouldn't want to IV all the other shite in there. Although the coconut rum is (or should I say, was, the bottle was finished in a few large gulps before getting ready for bed, and taking a last peek at the latest reaction in progress....
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

oldguy

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Re: Help identifying mushrooms.
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2011, 01:50:10 AM »
Identification via spore print microscopy is beyond me, I just use spore color as a method of elimination.  If the spore print is rusty brown, I know what it isn't.  But that alone won't tell me whether it's a deadly Galerina or a Big Gym.