All ''mainstreams'' MDMA synthesis will yields a racemic product. As opposed to methamphetamine, nobody would take the time to separate the 2 enantiomers as there is no added value. I've never tried (R)-MDMA or (S)-MDMA alone, but from what I've read in PIHKAL, it would not really feel like MDMA at all hence selling a enantiomerically pure MDMA would be counterproductive since it's probably less fun and do not ''feel'' like racemic MDMA at all.

Overall, it's kinda an invalid theory in my honest opinion.

Dr Tox i don't know what to tell you, all i can say is that RR is not bullshitting you about what he said with MDMA Citrate vs MDMA HCl.  if you have access to mdma hcl then convert it to mdma citrate and give it a whirl.  i can't explain any mechanism behind it but it's like a totally different (but related) drug.  mdma citrate doesn't provide an experience like mdma hcl at all.  you're rolling and you know it's a mdxx, but if you had a blind sample of mdma citrate, there'd be a chance you might be wondering if it's a mdma RC analogue, even if that thought doesn't come to mind you'd be wondering what you took exactly and you'd have a sense that it's a mdxx but probably not much more than that.

as for this post, here's another idea.  the pure mdma was all just shy of 100%.  the street mdma varied between 80-85%, no active cutting agent.  i can honestly say that the impurities flavor the experience differently and that's comparing some slightly off-white / slight isosafrole scented mdma (unknown purity) with ~99.9% bright white mdma.  i even did blind tests like you did, i did that with 4 people.  only 2 of those 4 people were together and could've influenced one another, the other 2 people were individuals who sampled it and arrived at their own conclusions.  everybody came to the same conclusion which was that the off-white mdma had a little more of the physical euphoria and mentally you're a little more munted.  their conclusion about the ~99.9% mdma was that they preferred the off-white mdma more, they said the ~99.9% mdma was more clear-headed to the point where their thought processes were more clear than when they were sober or at least that was their opinion.  they said the ~99.9% mdma's experience was and i quote "too clean" because the empathy/love was even stronger with the purer mdma but the less pure mdma gave them a more noticeable euphoria and more of that usual "this is what i know mdma to be" type of experience.

the mdma was prepared via benzo wacker, MeNO2 al/hg, titrated in water and acetone washed, so the hcl salt was a hydrate.  likely active impurities present would be safrole, isosafrole and mdp2pol (that is, if mdp2pol is active at all - i'm not sure, however there is likely to be a small amount present).

another anecdote is i've done another little test, gassed mdma hcl vs titrated mdma hcl.  ok hear me out.  the mdma was prepared from the same batch however the freebase-containing toluene was split 50/50.  one half was titrated then washed with acetone so it's just a mdma hcl hydrate salt.  the other half was gassed then washed with acetone so it wasn't a hydrate salt.  however the crystallization solvent you used will always be present within the crystal lattice of whatever crystal forms within solution.  there were definitely noticeable differences between the titrated and gassed product.  the people preferred the gassed product, they said it felt slightly more sedating but the euphoria felt stronger.  why?  i don't know, the only difference is that the titrated mdma has a tiny amount of water in the crystal lattice.  whereas the gassed mdma has a tiny amount of toluene in the crystal lattice.  yes toluene would cause sedation in minor exposure, a little more exposure and the headaches/toxicity start to be noticeable.  but there's such a tiny tiny amount of toluene in those crystals that there shouldn't be enough to make a difference.  i keep saying "crystals" but the gassed mdma is a powder of course, very fine like talcum powder, super teeny tiny crystals so the surface area is higher meaning there's even less room in the crystal lattice meaning there's less crystallization solvent in the gassed mdma versus the titrated mdma due to crystal size alone.  doesn't make much sense to me, i'm just reporting my findings.  whatever the reason, it goes to show that sometimes even very small differences can have a noticeable effect

conclusion:
this isn't a joke at all when i say that through NUMEROUS different preparations, i can honestly say that time and time again - people prefer the dirty shit lol

What I want to know is:

Has anyone compared the two via IV?

Fuck the gastric system and all its complexities. Get that shit into your bloodstream directly and compare. Failing that, the Dr.'s always a willing guinea pig. 

nah i personally stick with oral every time because i don't iv, insufflation of mdxx's feels shallow / no empathy and i'm too much of a wuss to slap it up the keister.  i have no idea what the cause is for the difference between the two so if you were to guinea pig i'd say do it orally cuz the difference may have to do with it's little journey through the gi tract as you alluded to.  i don't think anyone has developed a way to get a nice, solid, crystalline compound out of mdma citrate.  jon has some posts around here where he tried several different ideas and eventually got it to solidify but i can't remember what he did.  everyone else that's tried mdma citrate, to my knowledge, has done it rather crudely and just consumed the solution in its entirety - base salts and all (using food safe ingredients) since it was just a personal novelty type of thing.

Yes the dirty stuff gives un wanted yukky side effects. The cleaner the truer the effect and experience is..

First sorry about no much presence on the forum latelly.I was again out of chemistry work,so i visit the forum very little,but of course,no matter i don´t have any interesting to show-post,i enjoy like always read  the forum
  About that thread,seems it isn´t much to say,but in relation to what we are talking about,and without having in hand any theorical augument,i was thinking about the relation between how fast-slow the mdXX compound reach the brain and his final psicological effect.
    I think ,for example,we all felt that snorting the hcl salt and consume it orally result on very diferent effects.in most experiences,when snorting,seems more speedy and less empathy related in comparison with more chilling,loving and long lasting when consumed oraly.No experience on IV way.
   I was thinking about that because i was consuming lattely another drug that really seems great for me.I´m talking about pure methylphenidate,...you now,extracted from pills to almost pure form.Well,i used that drug time ago when studing hard,and work very well consumed orally to increase attention and a little energy for long time studying periods...but snorting the same dose,like 15 mg pure ,resulted on an extremlly energizant ,talkative and euphorizant effect as good if not better to me as good cocaine,when i discarted that substance time ago  like a  night drug because allways seemed to weak for me.Like said,equal if not greater feel than good cocaine,instead a boring feeling completly when consumed orally.
   It´s no dificult to me then,thinking about if ,like i remember ,seems exist a relatiosnhip  between  serotonine and dopamine liberation when mdma reachs the brain.....i don´t remember well exactly,but have read about dopamine liberation it´s atached and determined  by serotonine liberation first....please correct me if i talking trash here,....the first flow of serotonine,how fast it´s liberated,can influence the overall flow of dopamine.....
   Like allways,can´t give more theorical fundation about that,...but for example.....and like others said,...i fell lot diference from mdma:
  -Clean vs dirty...
  -Salt evaporated from methanol,ethanol,and water.
  -Salt gassed vs salt titrated....
  Anyway,don´t waste your time thinking about that!
 
     
   

maybe its not the crystal but  the brain!

i believe the setting, the mood, even the chemicals your body is producing at the time have its share on the effects. say hi to T.Leary hahuahu
so very hard to make a real data on it i guess.


i know something for sure!! pure mdma=0 hangover!!
when take street mdma always have hangover, sideefects. barely eat and hard time sleep. that drove me away from it ,couple years ago.
now pure mdma? aaahh done it, sleep well, woke up great, eat great, bathroom no problem hauahuah!! was very amazed.
i wanna try this citrate stuff hehehe

so my newbie conclusion during more than 15 years of drugs, is that, if my body function well its good  , it goes for cocaine, mdma, acid, man even weed if its bad you might end up with headache (europe, and us might have hard time understanding this one). so the trip  will differ alot deppending on the setting, mood etc but the after efects dont lie. hauhauhau

and YOU GUS here rock!!! for real! 
sassa thanks alot for your help last year!!!!
i will post my observations later, in the right place to share with yall! blue ketone  beauty

btw sassa... you guys were doing 300-400mg doses?? how many days from batch to batch?

peace

Pure mdma can be quite mellow in standard doses, compared to the mdma, caffeine & amphetamine mixtures that many 'ravers' are used to. High doses of mdma will produce a similar state, but for some reason they like cuts. Beats me.  The reason some 'street' people can take huge amounts of pills is only because of the cuts involved that decrease the amount of any single drug. Call it harm reduction, or what 'er you want it shouldn't be the way it is. Impurity is normal, but only to a certain extent.

i always got complaints on pure mdma

I guess you mean SOME people complained not ALL the people jonmon

If you've never had the goods it might be hard to know but some people wouldnt know their ears from their arseholes

in smaller doses it can be a pretty subtle drug compared to those used to stronger, more noticeable compounds like speed smack coke and acid

A looooooooooong time ago ('85ish) I had never had MDMA and asked a friend who had "what's it like?" to which she (a heroin dealer) replied..

"it a bit like speed, a bit like being stoned, a bit like tripping, a bit like coke....and not as good as any of them!  This was back when it was "good"

compared to the mdma, caffeine & amphetamine mixtures that many 'ravers' are used to

not sure about the caffiene but have no doubts about amphetamines once being used....although its not used so much now, if at all, with 'points' (0.1gm) of 'shard' going for $70-100   ($1000 per gm of MDxx? even in single pills? I dont think so!)

I could never 'get' people talking about 'smacky' pills especially peeps who had never had smack 

one other thing...has anyone ever tried any of the intermediate compounds?

fresh once in a moment of ? ate about 0.5gm of oxime (yeah go figure) and had some noticeable efffects--visual more than anything, which makes him wonder whether left overs in unreacted and poorly cleaned products causes some of these 'effects'

they even prefered those pip pills (piperazines)

yeah  go figure? I reckon they just cant appreciate the subtleties of fine compounds!

as for the pips (the PITS!) maybe its the hangover which makes them think they have had something "good"

i guess the lesson here is if you want to make a bunch of money buy some legal research trash and press it into pills.

pretty much!   and PLENTY of peeps are doing so!