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Author Topic: Short Question Thread 2.0  (Read 5706 times)

Quantum Dude

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2012, 04:19:19 AM »
Quote from: FlaskGenie on April 15, 2012, 03:32:49 AM
He

My question is about the 40-50 g of ferric chloride.  I’m wondering if the ferric(III)chloride isn't just changed to ferrous(II)chloride as soon as the HCl is introduced.  I am thinking that the Ferric(III)chloride as a catalyst is even needed.  If I am incorrect can someone help me understand the need for it. 


Fe(III) to Fe(II) is a reduction process, therefore one needs a reducer to convert ferric chloride to ferrous chloride. HCl can act, sometimes, as an oxidizer but (almost) never as a reducer, and certainly not is this case. You should review general chemistry of redox processes and usage of Lewis acids as catalysts, thats my advice to you.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 11:43:46 PM by Quantum Dude »

atara

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 07:11:18 PM »
Quote from: gloves on April 14, 2012, 09:37:47 PM
Hello,

simple/silly question:

is there anything else other than acetic anhydride or acetyl chloride which could esterify THC to THC-O-acetate?

Thank you

Glacial acetic acid with polyphosphoric acid may work -- use GAA as a solvent and add polyphosphoric acid and THC. The reaction requires dryness. Polyphosphoric acid* is obtained by heating dry phosphoric acid to 200 C for a few hours. It must be kept dry or it will revert to phosphoric acid. When I say polyphosphoric acid, I refer to any of several dehydrated phosphoric acids, including pyrophosphoric acid and metaphosphoric acid. Here it would act as a drying agent.

The reaction is straightforward -- reflux for a few hours. To separate the THC-O-Acetate from the remaining acids it is probably easiest to wash with cold water. THC does not dissolve in water, and it should not hydrolyse very quickly at low temperatures.

gloves

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 09:17:55 PM »
I thought GAA with anhydrous HCl would have worked too, due to the higher reactivity?

Could nitromethane substitute nitroethane in

piperonal + nitroethane + NaOH + HCl (in methanol) -> MDP2NP ?


Thank you

RoidRage

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 10:29:51 PM »
Quote from: gloves on April 16, 2012, 09:17:55 PM
I thought GAA with anhydrous HCl would have worked too, due to the higher reactivity?

Could nitromethane substitute nitroethane in

piperonal + nitroethane + NaOH + HCl (in methanol) -> MDP2NP ?


Thank you

The reaction would proceeds the same but you'll end up with 3,4-methylenedioxynitrostyrene instead of the nitropropene (one less carbon), which would yields the useless 3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamine upon reduction.

Enkidu

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2012, 07:51:35 AM »
Quote from: gloves on April 16, 2012, 09:17:55 PM
Could nitromethane substitute nitroethane in

piperonal + nitroethane + NaOH + HCl (in methanol) -> MDP2NP ?

In this case, nitroethane is a reactant, not a reagent or a solvent. You're welcome.

gloves

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 10:42:55 AM »
Quote from: atara on April 16, 2012, 07:11:18 PM
Quote from: gloves on April 14, 2012, 09:37:47 PM
Hello,

simple/silly question:

is there anything else other than acetic anhydride or acetyl chloride which could esterify THC to THC-O-acetate?

Thank you

Glacial acetic acid with polyphosphoric acid may work -- use GAA as a solvent and add polyphosphoric acid and THC. The reaction requires dryness. Polyphosphoric acid* is obtained by heating dry phosphoric acid to 200 C for a few hours. It must be kept dry or it will revert to phosphoric acid. When I say polyphosphoric acid, I refer to any of several dehydrated phosphoric acids, including pyrophosphoric acid and metaphosphoric acid. Here it would act as a drying agent.

The reaction is straightforward -- reflux for a few hours. To separate the THC-O-Acetate from the remaining acids it is probably easiest to wash with cold water. THC does not dissolve in water, and it should not hydrolyse very quickly at low temperatures.

Would acetylsalicylic acid work too? It was used on SM time ago to acetylate aniline sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=11706#pid149377

AnyNameWillDo

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 02:54:05 PM »
Alright so the questions in this thread don't have to be chemistry related?  K, let's see...

My best friend's brother was married and living in Brazil as of a couple years ago but no longer.  Long story short, my good friend is trying to organize a trip down there with our whole crew of guy friends.  Due to other responsibilities and other vacations already planned this summer, I'm not going to be able to make it along.  However...

What do you feel is the likelihood that my friend would be able to locate some Brazilian sass oil down there, and ship it back here (US) to me undetected?  This seems like a good opportunity in my opinion, but I figured some people here may have some more information on scenarios such as these.  Where would I have him look?  Farmer's markets and places like that?  Would shipping it in the plasic container with labels removed inside a box stuffed with paper be kosher?

I don't know, I'm just looking for any advice on this situation.

Polonium

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2012, 07:31:49 PM »
I have no first hand experience at this but I would imagine its not something you would just walk into. It is well known precursor and is listed under Schedule 1 of United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances.

I might be wrong but I'd imagine its an equivalent of finding someone to sell you a kilo of cocaine on the street except less likely due to the lack of any retail trade. Although it looks like it might be a good option I think it is very unlikely. Your best chance might be to get some sassafras delivered domestically to Brazil and then getting it reshipped by your friend once he is there. All in all its a bad idea which is unlikely to be possible.

embezzler

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2012, 07:39:16 PM »
It is an obvious suggestion - mislabel and ship in a precursor for MD(M)A. I am sure if you tried you could look online and see a list of names of people who have tried this.

Maybe you will get lucky. Or maybe you and your brother would both be arrested and spend time in prison.

Polonium is right... all in all a bad idea.

Quote
Would shipping it in the plasic container with labels removed inside a box stuffed with paper be kosher?

If you are going to do this at least label it as another oil.... I mean customs will open boxes with mysterious oils inside.
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AnyNameWillDo

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2012, 08:13:41 PM »
Damn it!  Alright.  I know not everyone in the game has an MDP2P source, or is out digging up sass roots all day every day.  And even this scheme, which to me seemed fairly straightforward is apparently pretty risky.  I've got to be missing something here.   >:(

embezzler

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2012, 08:16:12 PM »
You are just joining the "game" 20 years too late for easy safrole. If you are adventurous No1uno posted an article on its synthesis from catechol.

All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream...

Polonium

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2012, 09:35:51 PM »
Safrole can still be purchased online. It is nowhere near easy anymore and definitely not the safest option but the sources are still out there if you know where to look!

AnyNameWillDo

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2012, 09:49:53 PM »
Could be true...  But I don't think that's the way it's done.  I do live in an area that supposedly has a shit ton of sass trees, though I've yet to find any.  Still not sure that that's the best way either.  From the searching around I've done it seems like this is likely THE biggest hurdle in the whole process for most people, and the step that people typically are by FAR the least likely to discuss or help with.  Not that I don't understand why but the whole thing seems kind of waste without it.

salat

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2012, 10:48:42 PM »
Sassafras is one of the easiest trees to identify and locate.  On a recent trip up north I amused myself by learning to spot them as we were driving by at 80mph.

They have a very distinctive 3 lobed leaf - lollylobed and the young ones have 2 different type of leaves on them.  If you pick a stem/leaf and crush it there is a strong lemony smell.  Pull up some roots and you smell rootbeer/safrole.

I've seen posts of people who process the stuff in bulk and it isn't that hard to do.  They pretty much feed the whole tree into a chipper.  Also Spring and Fall are the best times to dig.

Salat

Salat

AnyNameWillDo

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2012, 11:10:51 PM »
Yes, Salat, I've read you say that before and I was actually going to PM you about it and ask for any advice.  I live in the Appalachian area and here that they are everywhere here.  And at this time in the season they supposedly have some yellow flowers that are fairly visible.  I've gone on a few walks recently for this purpose with no success. 

It's really fuckin difficult when you are in the middle of the woods, surrounded by hundreds of trees to try to focus in on one specific kind that to my knowledge I have never even seen in person before.  I know what the spring sass flowers are supposed to look like, and what the leaves will look like, but man it's still quite a task in an area filled with nothing but leaves and branches...  I've also heard that they like direct sunlight so maybe the middle of the forest isn't the best place to be looking...   :o

Sydenhams chorea

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2012, 08:02:21 PM »
Electrolysis of a H2SO4 solution in a divided cell using Pb/PbO2 electrodes produces ozone at the anode. Does anyone have an idea about the quantity of ozone produced under such conditions?
It is perhaps the narcotic. Hyoscine affects certain people very oddly. One cannot be sure. Sometimes, these cases take strange forms. The victim becomes in a sense, 'mediumistic', a vehicle for all the intangible forces in operation around her.

gloves

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2012, 12:00:20 PM »
Did the proposed DMT synthesis thru decarboxylation of amino acids in ketones prove to be valid?

twitch

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2012, 03:53:59 PM »
Quote from: gloves on April 21, 2012, 12:00:20 PM
Did the proposed DMT synthesis thru decarboxylation of amino acids in ketones prove to be valid?

One needs to methylate after decarboxylation. But yes, the decarboxylation is catalysed by the presence of ketones, and some essential oils (depending on your oils there can be side products) Any high boiling point nonpolar solvent should do, xylene, or benzophenone, ketones will speed it along. Also, that's the easy bit! Methylation is the tricky part.

GreenD

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2012, 08:26:16 PM »
Quote from: twitch on April 24, 2012, 03:53:59 PM
Quote from: gloves on April 21, 2012, 12:00:20 PM
Did the proposed DMT synthesis thru decarboxylation of amino acids in ketones prove to be valid?

One needs to methylate after decarboxylation. But yes, the decarboxylation is catalysed by the presence of ketones, and some essential oils (depending on your oils there can be side products) Any high boiling point nonpolar solvent should do, xylene, or benzophenone, ketones will speed it along. Also, that's the easy bit! Methylation is the tricky part.

Although I haven't done the methylation, the decarboxylation is very difficult unless one has ethyl acetate. . . You also need stoichiometric amounts of ketone catalyst. Acetophenone is the best solvent for this reaction, it can give quantitative yields.

Methylation is easy, if you have DIPEA.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Short Question Thread 2.0
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2012, 08:20:41 PM »
I read somewhere that propiophenone is better than acetophenone.
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