Author Topic: Jon's route  (Read 3445 times)

igotthere

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #120 on: December 12, 2012, 05:40:09 PM »
sorry Naoh!

well im assuming the main reaction vessel would have had water, naoh and methylamine, so if any of that passed down the tube to the suckback trap it would have contaminated the ipa in the suckback?

ImAMANGUYS

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2012, 05:45:36 PM »
My apologies, just reread and understand now.

Don't be discouraged. Its just a sloppy mistake and it happens. Next time be more careful ;)

Sneak

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2012, 06:03:20 PM »
I love this shit. Exciting stuff.

keep going and big respects!

Shouts going out to pb! Big up
If you really want to enjoy a pure, clean product the only way... is to make it yourself...

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take...

fractal

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #123 on: December 13, 2012, 02:10:44 AM »
Don't use a trap, use a one-way valve. It will shut the line as soon as pressure reverses.

pbinteger

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2013, 11:45:46 PM »
So.. I have something to report regarding my attempts with this route. A While back I obtained what could only be freebase amine via Jon's route after the standard alkaloid workup and posted about it in this thread

However, when I went to gas it, following identical methods to those that I have recently used when gassing toluene extractions of the freebase from the Hg/Al reductive amination, no hcl was formed.

The first time I gassed this freebase -- which was an amber golden color -- I followed Argox's method of dripping HCL over 98% h2so4 and drying it through a bubbler of 98% h2so4. I gassed it for a good 15 minutes and nothing formed. I walked away and when I came back I saw a salt in the bottom of the round bottom and freaked out thinking I had the HCL and posted out of excitement. I spent the whole day gleaming with joy and later when I went to work it up I realized the salt I had was soluble in Acetone -- and immediately knew something was wrong. I tasted it and realized... I had NaCL... How in the hell could that bee?? you're asking I'm sure..

Well out of fear of the dreadfulness of HCL(g) I had fitted my gas receiving flask out to an NaOH bubbler. After 15 minutes of great anticipation, and seeing nothing, I had to walk away for a moment. I realized after much mulling that the NaOH bubbler had sucked back a bit into my HCL rich toluene and formed the HCL sodium salt. At the time, I thought that was just my issue and I'd have to do another A/B workup and gas again. I was unable to get the freebase back into the solvent layer after heating, and stirring and shaking and cursing. SO

I set up to run another anhydrous methylamination attempt and THAT TIME -- it went to piss yellow JUST as Jon describes. Other attempts at this had left me a bit nonplussed because the color change was more subtle than I was hoping for. THIS time it was drastic so I knew a reaction had occurred. However, after the alkaloid workup, only TINY amounts of freebase were obtained 0.786 grams to be precise from 40g of Iodosafrole. No bueno -- but nonetheless I thought I'd gas it. So the next time I went to gassing some freebase from an amalgam I busted that back out of the freezer -- it had been stored over sieves so it was dry. I had just watched a HUGE crop of crystals form from this same gas rig from an amalgam freebase. So I began to gas this toluene with the freebase from Jon's route, and again... nothing....

So this is a big giant WTF? ?  My plan is to re-run this series and save every single intermediate in the appropriate solvent for spectral analysis and try to get someone I know at the University to help me out. I know that others on this forum have had great success with this route, but I have yet to figure out at which point I am failing.

Just thought I would update everyone on my progress with this. I don't plan on giving up on it -- because it's super clean and quite interesting chemistry. I want the learning experience of identifying all the points of failure and documenting them thoroughly.

Thank You
Pbint
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 11:49:34 PM by pbinteger »

atara

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #125 on: February 08, 2013, 06:56:57 AM »
NaCl is not soluble in acetone. Maybe it was MeNH3Cl?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 07:01:37 AM by atara »

pbinteger

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #126 on: February 08, 2013, 02:28:07 PM »
No it was definitely salt -- tasted like salt. Perhaps the acetone was a bit wet.

Sneak

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #127 on: February 09, 2013, 01:48:19 AM »
Keep going dude your smashin it 8)
If you really want to enjoy a pure, clean product the only way... is to make it yourself...

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take...

Whale

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #128 on: February 17, 2013, 11:35:31 PM »
Decided against making a new thread for this. I've been researching and getting lots of data together so i can do an almost completely OTC attempt at jon's route (I can get everything here except for the sassy, stuff might bee different in your area) Anyways, I'm just wondering if you wasps can look stuff over, and maybee help me out a bit on some of the math  ::) ::) . Here goes!

---Jon's Route Attempt---
Materials needed:
Safrole
NaBr
Sulfuric Acid
Potassium Iodide
Acetone
Hexamine
IsoHeet
Methanol
Muriatic Acid
Bleach
Vinegar
NaCl
DCM
Epsom Salts

---Chloroform From Bleach and Acetone---
1. Cool bleach
2. mix with acetone
3. wait a couple hours; itll settle to bottom

---Purifying Safrole from Sassy Oil---
1. Mix Sassafras oil with an equal amt of 3% NaOH soln.
2. Pour off (or use sep funnel) water layer
3. Wash 3 more times with distilled water
4. Boil off water on stove; still more alkaloids, but reletively pure

---Methylamine HCl From Hexamine---
1. Make a soln. of 10mols H2O, and 12.8mols of HCl; Remember acid into water!
2. Add this to a beaker with .81mols of hexamine in it. Stir until dissolved
3. Heat on stove/hotplate/whatever; around 80-90c vapors will bee given off, avoid em
4. Heat until you're down to ~200ml, turn off hotplate
5. Let beaker cool until room temp
6. Methylamine HCl will precip out, just filter this off
7. Evap the filtrate until more crystals precip out, and filter again
8. Add the Methylamine HCl to ~100ml of chloroform; supposedly gets out unreacted hexamine, and the dimethylamine
9. Filter off the crystals and keep em dry; mebbe dessicator

---15% conc methylamine from Methylamine HCl---
1. Make a saturated soln of NaOH, and set it to drip into the methylamine HCl
2. Make the gas bubble into dry iso-heet
3. Store in fridge

---GAA from Vinegar---
1.Saturate Distilled vinegar with salt.
2. Extract with DCM (3 times)
3. Dry combined DCM extracts with MgSO4
4. Boil off DCM

---KI from I2 and KOH---
1. Add KOH into KI tincure; Should turn clear
2. Boil down till you have xtals
3. put in oven to dry

---HBr From NaBr and H2SO4---
1. Chill GAA and Sulfuric
2. Take Chilled GAA and add NaBr; make sure it dissolves
3. Add Sulfuric in a steady stream; maybe ice bath to keep down the Br2 gas forming

-*-Bromosafrole from Crude Safrole-*-
1. Take 40% HBr in GAA and mix with safrole
2. Swirl if you want, and put in freezer (0c) for 24 hours
3. After 24hrs put in sep funnel, flood with water
4. get the bromosafrole out
5. extract water layer 3 times with chloroform
6. mix the chloroform and bromosafrole
7. Wash with water and add bicarb until fizzing stops
8. Wash a couple more times with water; ofc discard all previous washes
9. Store Bromosafrole in the fridge.

-**-Iodosafrole from Bromosafrole-**-
1. Dissolve KI into Acetone
2. Add KI soln into Bromo. Let sit for 30-45mins
3. Flood with water until salts dissolve
4. Extract 3 times with DCM
5. Evap DCM with hairdryer
6. Put Iodosafrole in the fridge, also keep away from UV

-***-Freebase(or HCl) MDMA from Iodosafrole-***-
1. Put iodosafrole and 15% methylamine into a sealed container
2. Swirl and let it sit for 30-45 minutes (just to bee safe)
3. Put mixture into Buchner funnel and use water asp to evap the alcohol
4. Make the pH of the mix 12 with NaOH and watch the freebase oil drop out.
5. gas it with a ghetto gas generator for the HCl

Note: Regular "-" is making of precursors, and other materials needed, while "*" is the workup (Safrol->bromo->iodo->fb)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:36:57 AM by %1 »

myCH3

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #129 on: February 19, 2013, 04:53:16 AM »
Thank you for that write up.  I believe the word your looking for in the last step is buchner funnel.  honey for you  ; :D

Whale

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #130 on: February 19, 2013, 05:33:43 AM »
Hehe thanks. Ill edit it. Just letting you know this is all theory and i havent done any of this yet (no im not swimming, i actually havent). So take it as a grain of salt thats been researched for a bit. Gl on your endeavors ch3!

nigluhS

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #131 on: February 19, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »


---Methylamine HCl From Hexamine---
1. Make a soln. of 10mols H2O, and 12.8mols of HCl; Remember acid into water!
2. Add this to a beaker with .81mols of hexamine in it. Stir until dissolved
3. Heat on stove/hotplate/whatever; around 80-90c vapors will bee given off, avoid em
4. Heat until you're down to ~200ml, turn off hotplate
5. Let beaker cool until room temp
6. Methylamine HCl will precip out, just filter this off
7. Evap the filtrate until more crystals precip out, and filter again
8. Add the Methylamine HCl to ~100ml of chloroform; supposedly gets out unreacted hexamine, and the dimethylamine
9. Filter off the crystals and keep em dry; mebbe dessicator


the attached reference (originally provided by luhg) may prove helpful in this step.
when the wasps and the bumblebees have a party, nobody comes that can't buzz...

nigluhS

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #132 on: February 20, 2013, 03:33:08 AM »
also, you might consider taking the intermediary step of using distilled star of anise oil. Then, obviously, you should discard any successful endeavors.
when the wasps and the bumblebees have a party, nobody comes that can't buzz...

Whale

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #133 on: February 20, 2013, 03:53:51 AM »
?? If you're refering to my other thread, it's YELLOW anise, not star anise. For this i am using sassy.

nigluhS

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2013, 01:59:21 PM »
no, just mentioning using anise instead of sass until you refine the technique. 64 oz is like $60...sass, besides being a coveted commodity, is $145 for 16 oz assuming you have a reliable source.
when the wasps and the bumblebees have a party, nobody comes that can't buzz...

EMTWC

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #135 on: March 19, 2013, 03:05:34 AM »
The mixture wasn't frozen solid like it has been in the past, although I'm sure that was due to my poor maths. This time it was a nice uniform deep purple colour, no orange at all.
pinky swear to start yet another bromosafrol thread (just what every bee wants right LOL), but swim wants to riddle the other threads with a few questions before she starts the ghost chase again.

question number 1: does frozen solid always indicate poor stoichiometry?

This female dog is hammering away at this first step right now> 3 attempts with theses numbers:

50g distilled star anise
57.4g H2SO4
66.6g NaBr
71.1g Glacial Acetic Acid

all 3 showed a deep red/purple upon entry of substrate.

attempt 1= after 27 hours in freezer, seemingly 2 layers frozen. after thaw, dark dark liquid present with thick thick tar. Some minor salts noticeable. Absolutely no separation in H2O.

attempt 2= after 36 hours. 4 layers frozen. Stir bar was much more active during this initial synth???? nothing else done with it yet.

attempt 3= no stir bar, some manual swirling during all additions. Tried to let things settle before putting in freezer. Looked like 3 layers upon entry into freezer.

again, question number 1: does frozen solid always indicate poor stoichiometry?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 03:07:22 AM by EMTWC »
roll some bones and catch a fire

Whale

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #136 on: March 19, 2013, 03:42:26 AM »
IIRC (im fuckin exhausted, so check this out for yourself) at one point it is supposed to get frozen solid, and im pretty sure it was on the bromonization. Then you decant the shit off and you have crude bromo which you wash with water, and bicarb. to increase yields (not nessasary for your test runs) you can extract the water wash with DCM or TCM

EMTWC

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #137 on: March 20, 2013, 02:49:51 AM »
thanks for nothing carl....

looking for input from the real bee'z...btjuice, pbinteger, jon (long gone) ass fart (really????)...igotthere...fractal, please...

started to put together a timeline of all this bromo info. Trying to gather all ref's along the way, but will be asking for many. An interesting picture is developing...


anyway...%1...NO where can I find this step freezing so STFU. let the real bee'z speak or forever hold their piece.
roll some bones and catch a fire

EMTWC

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #138 on: March 20, 2013, 09:24:48 PM »
first two attempts ended with very dark thick tar. Rather impervious to the H2O and bi carb washes. Decided not to waste the DCM (harder to come by than other solvents). Didn't think I had the goods.

attempt 3 looks to be same very dark thick tar...no bueno

here is the time line swiE has been putting together, obviously far from complete:

4-18-1994
Jon Taylor
http://www.lycaeum.org/leda/Documents/MDMA_Synthesis%253A_Bromosafrole_Method.10588.shtml




8-4-1995
Eleusis
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.drugs.chemistry/tree/browse_frm/month/1995-07/4ea8062431a2cb97?rnum=111&_done=%2Fgroup%2Falt.drugs.chemistry%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1995-07%3F

10-25-1999
dr. strangelove Once and for all...bromosafrole  @ hive
http://y47ylcppnh3afqk4.onion.to/hive.lycaeum.org.1998-2000/ubb_board/Forum3/HTML/001030.html

9-27-2002
Chloro/Bromo/Iodosafrole Synthesis Notes
https://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/halosafrole.txt

SPISSHAK
(Hive Bee)
12-17-02 17:28
No 390251
How did your friend make the Bookmark
Iodosafrole? just curious. and I thought iodosafrole was prone to elimination HX at elevated temperatures? How did he get any yeild under "pipe bomb" condition

11-1-2006
Jon @ SM
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=11722

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=7264


7-10-2007
Jon @ collective Topic: 90% yeilds from bromosafrole w/this modification
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=14696

5-28-2008
Jon @ collective Topic: bromosafrole synth workup
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=6766

5-4-2009
aisleofview @ collective Topic: bromo-propylbenzene (w/photo's)RESOLVED
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=8571

6-8-2009
Jon @ collective Topic: fun with bromosafrole
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=8883.0;all

6-15-2009
Jon @ collective Topic: denatured alcohol for bromo run a no no
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=8931

8-26-2009
Jon @ collective Topic: iodosafrole to mda and dicussion of yeilds
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=19214.0;all

2-22-2010
Dr. Methoxy @ collective Topic: Bromosafrole success with PTC - Jon's method does NOT work
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=19935

5-25-2010
Spice @ psychonaut
http://www.psychonaut.com/synthetics-extraction-research/36412-re-visiting-halosafroles.html

6-17-2010
sassa @ vespiary Topic: methylamine synthesized ala Bright Star´s:it´s good enough?
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1060.msg12766.html#msg12766

1-1-2011
Salat @ vespiary Yeee Haaah thread:
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,1697.0.html


2-21-2011
Palladium @ Collective Topic: A test of Jon's aka Spisshak's Bromosafrole Route to MDxx
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=22460


3-17-2011
Wizard X @ collective Topic: Bromosafrole + 18.2% w/w alcoholic methylamine
https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=22523

7-17-2012
igotthere @ vespiary Topic: Jon's route
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,3279.0.html

2-23-2013
btjuice @ vespiary Topic: Jon's Method From Start To Finish *Update -- Failure*
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,3572.0.html

roll some bones and catch a fire

T-cowboy

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Re: Jon's route
« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2013, 12:59:18 AM »
Okay it worked for me:

bought hbr in acetic, bought menh2 in ABSOLUTE ethanol 33%. Dunno why Jon says IPA is the big secret. maybe jon is is a secret and just points in the right directions without spoonfeeding, and one has to think self.

so the problem is your techniques maybe. please pm me if you want questions. btw, buying the stuff is less exp. and less time consuming. and is is low on radar. really. if you know how to deal with it.