Author Topic: p-methoxyphenol  (Read 273 times)

Douchermann

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p-methoxyphenol
« on: August 15, 2009, 11:58:48 PM »
Since this topic isn't dead enough, I'll make a quick write up on my recent synth

p-benzoquinone was produced in the usual manner with Hydroquinone, H2O2 and I2(cat)

22.5g of hydroquinone was dissolved in 175ml of methanol to form a clear solution, followed by 22.5ml of sulfuric acid.  The sulfuric acid should be added very very slowly because it reacts violently with methanol.  After this, 2.25g of benzoquinone was added (the last of it).  This was set up for reflux for 4 hours.  After the four hours were up, the set-up was converted to distillation and 100ml of methanol stripped off. While doing this, a saturated solution of NaCl was prepared with 140g of NaCl and 400ml of water.  After 100ml of methanol was removed, the solution cooled.  200ml of this concentrated salt solution was added and immediately a brown oil floated to the top.

The mixture was extracted 3 times with 50ml of xylene.  All extracts were pooled together, and washed twice with the remaining NaCl solution.  This was added to a flask and set up for simple distillation.  150ml of xylene was stripped off and vacuum was pulled on the apparatus.  Violent bumping occurred as volatile organics boiled off suddenly.  The water was removed from the condenser and methoxy phenol began distilling over.  ~20ml was collected, but it began solidifying in the condenser.  I would recommend some way to heat up the other side of the glass to prevent this from happening for anyone who tries this.  Methanol was added to solvate and I'm now evaporating the methanol off.  Yields to be posted later.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 03:42:59 AM by Douchermann »

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 05:07:34 AM »
What color was the 4-methoxyphenol that you observed?
Did you ever determine a yield, or has the methanol not completely evaporated?
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Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 05:20:28 AM »
It has not completely evaporated.  It was off white crystals coming over at roughly 140C (never looked hard at the thermometer) at full vacuum.  There was a tinge of red/brown in the receiving flask, due to the flask boil from the vacuum forcing a little extra into the condenser.  I'll finish evaporating and do a recrystallization tomorrow.

timecube

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2009, 05:41:21 AM »
I've read reports of others using hair dryers to keep everything warm to prevent the problem you were having.

basstabone

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 03:07:37 AM »
What are you recrystallizing it from? I know the suggestion is pet ether/ethyl acetate but what is the ratio?

Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 06:14:38 AM »
I'm just using pure EtOAc.  I have no petroleum ether, but a decent bit of ethyl acetate (go figure).  I've got a beaker full of nice clear crystals just sitting in the freezer, but the p-methoxyphenol has taken the back burner for a few days.  I will post though, don't worry.

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 01:19:07 AM »
Jesus he ain't kiddin when he says methanol and sulfuric acid react violently!

I had made quinhydrone not to long ago, and so i am attempting to make 4-methoxyphenol from it, with excess methanol and H2SO4 along with the addition of iron filings to produce the hydroquinone.
I originally reduced some of the quinhydrone to hydroquinone but upon evaporation it pretty much went back to quinhydrone since I left it at room temp for a few weeks :D

Either way, I hope the Fe reduction & methoxylation work in the same flask at the same time! It would make p-methoxyphenol significantly easier for me, so I guess I'll just have to see.

It was originally a dark black but with green bubbles but now it is black without the green bubbles - just a tiny of maybe brown? I think this suggests that the quinhydrone has turned into p-methoxyphenol and benzoquinone, why else would it lose its green color?

Careful if you had the acid to the methanol or the methanol to the acid. It was a bitch.

Douchermann, do you think you your p-methoxyphenol is free of hydroquinone and its buddies? Do you feel it is important to reflux 4 hours? I have been refluxing mine a for about four hours now, but I think I'll keep it going for another hour or so just for good measure I guess.
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Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 05:11:40 AM »
Reflux for 4, or stir for 24 at RT.  Do I feel it is free of hydroquinone? No.  Very low amounts? Yes.  IIRC, hydroquinone is almost insoluble in aromatic hydrocarbon solvents.  As a matter of fact, I believe there is a patent on using this property, by removing the water from a hydroquinone solution with a xylene azeotrope, then just filtering off the hydroquinone from the xylene left behind. 

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 06:52:13 AM »
Awesome! Thanks for that info, I'll look into this and see if I can really purify the methoxyphenol from the junk I may have in it. I'd assume methoxyphenol would be more soluble in say.. toluene or something then hydroquinone.

I left my H2SO4/MeOH/Quinone crap in the flask overnight since I ran out of time to purify it, and I also used an excess of both MeOH and H2SO4 so along with the 6.5 hours of reflux it received, another ~15 hours of sitting should do it some good I guess.

Oh by the way, does your 4-methoxyphenol smell like pigs? I've read that p-cresol, aka 4-methoxyphenol, is the main chemical pigs let off to make their piggy smell.


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Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 06:56:33 AM »
The scent from the flask was closer to p-dichlorobenzene, but not quite.  This could have been from the mixture of scents, predominantly benzoquinone and methanol.  At the moment, it just smells like ethyl acetate, which as the unique ability to overpower almost anything.

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 07:04:54 AM »
I see. I thought mine started to smell like burning rubber, but then I realized the water tube to the condenser was touching the element.
I'll be pretty pissed if I don't get 4-methoxyphenol. I took it all the way from acetominophen haha

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Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 08:23:39 AM »
Yeah, what is that, two whole steps?

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 10:18:54 PM »
Considering I made my KNO3 to make my KNO2 to make the hydroquinone, no its a few more lol
This is straight up OTC.
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Formula409

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2009, 05:57:02 AM »
Oh by the way, does your 4-methoxyphenol smell like pigs? I've read that p-cresol, aka 4-methoxyphenol, is the main chemical pigs let off to make their piggy smell.


Isnt p-cresol 4-methylphenol?

But yes it has a very! unique smell to it....

Also I have performed this reaction some 3 times, and I always have teriable yeilds, does one need to remove all the methanol befour adding the brian soloution and extracting with DCM.....
My yeilds are horriable from 10g of Photograde Hydroquinone I may get 3g and thats with 3x25ml DCM extractions....

Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2009, 06:33:45 AM »
p-cresol is para-methylphenol, yes.  You need to evaporate half the methanol before you add the brine.  You don't want to evap all of it, because the sulfuric acid will become too concentrated and mess with the product.  Then, it'll work quite well.

Vesp

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2009, 06:46:59 AM »
Oh dang, I read that wrong when looking at an MSDS. Thank you very much for pointing that out.

It is also very important to make sure you get enough methanol out, I didn't today and It messed up my reaction.
One option could be is to add enough water that the sulfuric acid won't become concentrated enough to react with the 4-methoxyphenol and then you could evaporate off all of the methanol, probably making the DCM pulls more effective.

@Formula409, you make sure you use dry methanol, concentrated sulfuric acid, and reflux for long enough time periods?

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Douchermann

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2009, 07:01:38 AM »
Dry methanol is unnecessary.  HEET is plenty water free (being around 1% H2O).  However, I could see how it could improve yeilds, so if you have it around, go for it.

Formula409

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2009, 08:01:43 AM »
Im doing the synth as detailed reflux for 4hrs (last two I did 6hr to be sure)
Using MeOH dried over Calcium sulfate, and 98% reagent grade H2SO4

I remove half the MeOH via distillation, ad an equal volueme of what has been removed brian.....

Im following Klute's procedure on SM and have reviewed some older references on a hive backup  ???

Its been a few weeks since I have tried this as I imploded my stillhead last time the apparutus went under vaccum.....

basstabone

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 04:22:44 AM »
So I was wondering if you could just leave out the condenser when distilling the oil? This would make a shorter path and maybe it wouldn't condense in the tube. I guess you would have to cool the receiving flask just to ensure that it doesn't escape. Is this possible?

Formula409

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Re: p-methoxyphenol
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2009, 04:39:19 AM »
Thats what I was doing and it worked find basstabone.

You will find that it comes over at such a heat even if the receiving flask is hot it will still be cool enough for the pMeOPh to condense very rapidly on the surface of the flask