200 mg's no numerical error! I was terrified when I learned he had done this and rushed to monitor him... I think the receptors get saturated and anything over that point only prolongs the duration. I have been amazed time and time again with the bodies tolerance to alot of pyschotropics (now don't go experimenting...).
solidstone
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 102
hypnos
- Dominant Queen
- Posts: 402
mu3 as well at this stage,,prbly more to found
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
Is the ester analogous to any schedule 1's or 2's?
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
no unless an over the counter drug is a schedule 1 or 2 it is not an 'analouge' per say.
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
Yeah, loperamide is obviously not scheduled, I was asking if the ester is close to any other scheduled opiates in structure. Example: methoxetamine is an analog of ketamine (shedule 3, so not covered by analog act), however methoxetamine may be close enough to PCP to be covered.
pygmalion
- Larvae
- Posts: 9
^^^ I've seen this oft repeated and I am not sure why? Methoxetamine is most certainly an analog of PCE (schedule 1), likely PCP (schedule II) and ketamine (schedule III). Hard to argue it wouldn't be covered by the AA. "Not for Human Consumption" clause be damned, that hasn't been shown to mean shit....
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
AA does not apply to schedule III's, but I'm not argueing that it isn't covered.
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
well the ester of loperamide is too distant in structural terms from any schedule 1 and 2 substance.
as long as it is'nt intended for human use ie. to get high then it can't be called an analog but then, even caffeine sold as cocaine can be prosecuted as an analog.
it depends on how well the prosecution can sell a case to a jury of your peers and usually as the saying goes 'da wins'
as long as it is'nt intended for human use ie. to get high then it can't be called an analog but then, even caffeine sold as cocaine can be prosecuted as an analog.
it depends on how well the prosecution can sell a case to a jury of your peers and usually as the saying goes 'da wins'
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
Thanks Jon!
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
they go to liar school for 8 years they know how to distort facts and sell it to a bunch of knuckleheads another part of the process they control in part is jury selection they study the psycology of certain demographics in order to handpick thier juries unless you got a paid juror, or a paid judge (which is indeed possible) the odds are against you in any (St. vs. joe blow) case.
For the peace and dignity of the state, I rest my case.
For the peace and dignity of the state, I rest my case.
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
okay this is an interesting paper this explains the SAR's of phenylanilidopiperidines
the SAR's of these compounds and of the meperidine class are pretty much analogous.
it shows here the potency of p-chloro fentanyl to be 1/30th of that of fentanyl
or about 1.5-3 times the potency of morphine.
and i found this to be intriguing because it just so happens that propionyl loperamide is exactly in that range of potency pretty close to heroin.
from this is can be inferred that dechlorination of loperamide would yeild a product 30 times stronger upon esterification.
or strikingly close to that of fentanyl.
talk about "reverse engineering"
i initially thought that lithiation of loperamide was not feasible because of the dimethylamido moiety.
having a propensity to enolize and from there the organic base could induce anionic polymerizations of the enol.
but seeing how the carbon alpha to the dimethylamide is qauternary ie. bearing no hydrogen, this is simply not possible.
so the forseeable product would be the phenyl lithium oxo lithium salt.
which upon quenching with 2-propanol would yield the dechlorinated product. as the oxo lithium salt.
or it could just be quenched with dilute acid.
this appears to be the most straight forward approach because of lithium's reactivity towards aryl chlorides.
the paper is attached.
the SAR's of these compounds and of the meperidine class are pretty much analogous.
it shows here the potency of p-chloro fentanyl to be 1/30th of that of fentanyl
or about 1.5-3 times the potency of morphine.
and i found this to be intriguing because it just so happens that propionyl loperamide is exactly in that range of potency pretty close to heroin.
from this is can be inferred that dechlorination of loperamide would yeild a product 30 times stronger upon esterification.
or strikingly close to that of fentanyl.
talk about "reverse engineering"
i initially thought that lithiation of loperamide was not feasible because of the dimethylamido moiety.
having a propensity to enolize and from there the organic base could induce anionic polymerizations of the enol.
but seeing how the carbon alpha to the dimethylamide is qauternary ie. bearing no hydrogen, this is simply not possible.
so the forseeable product would be the phenyl lithium oxo lithium salt.
which upon quenching with 2-propanol would yield the dechlorinated product. as the oxo lithium salt.
or it could just be quenched with dilute acid.
this appears to be the most straight forward approach because of lithium's reactivity towards aryl chlorides.
the paper is attached.
2bfrank
- Guest
they go to liar school for 8 years they know how to distort facts and sell it to a bunch of knuckleheads another part of the process they control in part is jury selection they study the psycology of certain demographics in order to handpick thier juries unless you got a paid juror, or a paid judge (which is indeed possible) the odds are against you in any (St. vs. joe blow) case.
For the peace and dignity of the state, I rest my case.
they go to liar school for 8 years they know how to distort facts and sell it to a bunch of knuckleheads another part of the process they control in part is jury selection they study the psycology of certain demographics in order to handpick thier juries unless you got a paid juror, or a paid judge (which is indeed possible) the odds are against you in any (St. vs. joe blow) case.
For the peace and dignity of the state, I rest my case.
Ha, I rmember living in this house. I was studying a biomed sc degree with an unofficial chem major. Just utilized the electives, which were the same for chem major. Well anyway, I met this person, and everything I said he argued. everything. I mentioned drug addiction. it came up in a conversation, and he mentioned that food and water is also addictive. YES YES, but I am specifically talking about Drug addiction, not the concept of addiction itself. I mean everything Jon, every fucking comment I made, he twisted it, to present an agenda that he knew best. I eventually asked him what he was doing, as I found out he was studying. The lying sack of shit said. I got a little something going on, not important. OH okay, I said to myself. Be like that. I later found out he was studying law. 1st year and must of thought that if he said it, then Id think something or something like that. I dont give a rats ass if he was studying rocket science, or theoretical physics, what I dont like is ASSHOLES who aren't fucking honest. He bombed out, but he would of made a good legal person. He twisted so well, he avoided telling the truth, and imo, he would of excelled. Cunt of a man. Lying manipulating bitch. Sort of guy who always had a best friend who was always percieved as DUMBER than he. Must of made him feel fucking smart. I feel like popping the cunt everytime I think of him. Not him, just the him he thinks he is.
Sorry end of rant.
psychexplorer
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 138
Re
There is still one part of the AA which has yet to be clarified.
A simple example:
Suppose X is a schedule I hallucinogen (their language, not mine).
If MeX exhibits hallucinogenic effects, then it is a prohibited analog.
If EtX is a powerful stimulant, and the X structure is not shared with any S I or S II stimulants, then it is questionable whether EtX is a prohibited analog.
This came up recently with MDPV. Despite the obvious yelling which will accompany anything with the benzodioxole structure, MDPV is a stimulant totally unlike the MDXX family. Its similarity in effects and structure is to a schedule V stimulant. It bears only a vague structural resemblance to MDA and MDMA.
Nobody knows which way the law will go, proving once again, that our modern laws are written by lawyers and for lawyers, not for you and I.
About the only AA safe haven of which we can be sure is its inapplicability to schedules III-V.
Methoxetamine is another interesting case. It most closely resembles ketamine in effect and structure. It was also designed and introduced as a supposedly legal ketamine analog. Can they pull a PCx out of left field? Jon is right - the DA almost always wins.
Yeah, loperamide is obviously not scheduled, I was asking if the ester is close to any other scheduled opiates in structure. Example: methoxetamine is an analog of ketamine (shedule 3, so not covered by analog act), however methoxetamine may be close enough to PCP to be covered.
There is still one part of the AA which has yet to be clarified.
A simple example:
Suppose X is a schedule I hallucinogen (their language, not mine).
If MeX exhibits hallucinogenic effects, then it is a prohibited analog.
If EtX is a powerful stimulant, and the X structure is not shared with any S I or S II stimulants, then it is questionable whether EtX is a prohibited analog.
This came up recently with MDPV. Despite the obvious yelling which will accompany anything with the benzodioxole structure, MDPV is a stimulant totally unlike the MDXX family. Its similarity in effects and structure is to a schedule V stimulant. It bears only a vague structural resemblance to MDA and MDMA.
Nobody knows which way the law will go, proving once again, that our modern laws are written by lawyers and for lawyers, not for you and I.
About the only AA safe haven of which we can be sure is its inapplicability to schedules III-V.
Methoxetamine is another interesting case. It most closely resembles ketamine in effect and structure. It was also designed and introduced as a supposedly legal ketamine analog. Can they pull a PCx out of left field? Jon is right - the DA almost always wins.
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
and they are hypocrites too i supplied a law student with fuck tons of cocaine and he turned out to be a DA that went to the restroom every 5-10 minutes
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
Is the citrate salt of propionoxy ester supposed to result in a viscous oil?
Beebo mentioned:
Oils are difficult to dose, but I see Jon and others are insufflating the citrate...
Beebo mentioned:
Quote
some problems
after citrate titration there was more weight than explainable and it doesn't want to dry
Oils are difficult to dose, but I see Jon and others are insufflating the citrate...
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
well he probably did'nt have a very pure sample.
i noticed he deviated from my advice when asked what to do, so i don't find that very suprizing.
i noticed he deviated from my advice when asked what to do, so i don't find that very suprizing.
student
- Larvae
- Posts: 14
mine should be very pure and is still an oil as the citrate
jon
- Foundress Queen
- Posts: 1,883
i found citrate salts of amines are hard to crystallize because of all the potential sites for hydrogen bonding you need a solvent and then something very non-polar to crash it out of solution advise your chemist.
Balkan Bonehead
- Subordinate Wasp
- Posts: 117
Check out US5312970 for production of propoxyphene from oxyphene, it's basically the exact same reaction as forming a propionyl ester of a phenylpiperidinol (they are both tertiary benzylic amino alcohols).
EXAMPLE 1
To a 5 liter flask equipped with an overhead stirrer, nitrogen feed, thermometer, and heating mantle was added 2.0 kg (7.06 moles) d oxyphene purchased from Merrell Dow. To this was added 2.0 L (15.6 moles) propionic anhydride (Aldrich) with stirring and heating. The temperature was raised to 75-80 C over 35 minutes and maintained at no more than 81 C for four hours. The mixture was cooled to room and then added dropwise to 10.0 L deionized water over 30 minutes. A clear yellow solution resulted. 1.8 L ammonium hydroxide was added to raise the pH 8.8. Seed crystals of d-propoxyphene were added white solids precipitated. The solution and precipitate were chilled by immersion in ice bath and filtered. The solid was dried by vacuum and then placed in a 60 C oven for 2 days. The yield was 2390 g of white crystals, 99.7% of theory.
EXAMPLE 1
To a 5 liter flask equipped with an overhead stirrer, nitrogen feed, thermometer, and heating mantle was added 2.0 kg (7.06 moles) d oxyphene purchased from Merrell Dow. To this was added 2.0 L (15.6 moles) propionic anhydride (Aldrich) with stirring and heating. The temperature was raised to 75-80 C over 35 minutes and maintained at no more than 81 C for four hours. The mixture was cooled to room and then added dropwise to 10.0 L deionized water over 30 minutes. A clear yellow solution resulted. 1.8 L ammonium hydroxide was added to raise the pH 8.8. Seed crystals of d-propoxyphene were added white solids precipitated. The solution and precipitate were chilled by immersion in ice bath and filtered. The solid was dried by vacuum and then placed in a 60 C oven for 2 days. The yield was 2390 g of white crystals, 99.7% of theory.