Does this additive show itself as a residue left behind in test evaporations of small amounts? Seems like a surfactant shouldn't be able to evaporate very quickly.

Acetone obtained from a hardware store or paint store should always be refluxed with potassium permanganate and then distilled, preferably fractionally distilled. Read more about this elsewhere as it is covered in lots of detail.
 There is not only surfactants and water but also ketones and who knows what else. If making products intended for eventual consumption (but who would do such a thing) then it must be purified properly. Yu might have made a great pure salt of some compound, then once you wash it with acetone you have introduced all sorts of shit simply because it was not purified properly. This should not be acceptable to anyone.

My rule is if it does not have a COA then take nothing said about it as truth, and at least distill once. But I think that would be better than the hardware stuff, for sure.

i say use otc, yes there may be lower yields but just run it more times to compensate!

I have a question regarding this. recently when working with mdma freebase in toluene freshly pulled from my post al hg sludge, i ran out of dh20 for the washes.. i did the washes with tap water instead.. also i used tap water in my 02 wacker which is right next to me stirring

any direct experience with el tappo water ruining anything?

i know with lsd it destroys it but mdma seems like you get yields even when its run dirty

the topic is about additives/contaminants right?

did you read methylmans last post??

im asking (without starting a whole thread) how does using tap water effect things as opposed to dh20

Using otc solvents as he describes affects yields but obviously not the purity based on what methylman said.

how does what im talking about not make sense?

ok well regarding the acetone from the store, i dont know what was in it but it would not leave my crystals, it stayed in them and puffed them up, as opposed to MEK which was really good at cleaning the crystals..

at the end of the day pyramid its only .1g dose its not like you are having a big bowl of the stuff so a few impuritys are not going to harm anything, imagine how much mdma youd have to take before the impurities from the acetone got to you?

Do you want that in your lab?

dH2O is so cheap and readily accessible that it doesn't make sense to waste the time and energy thinking about when it might be okay to substitute unknown tap water with maybe a dollars worth of dH2O, or to worry about whether it is contaminating product or impacting yield. Most tap water should not be considered fit for human consumption, so why use it in preparative work?

Using dH2O guarantees that you are working only with H2O.

As the saying goes, garbage in, garbage out (GIGO). Attention to detail is a good habit to build.

Excellent advice psychexplorer!!!

I feel a bit uncomfortable talking about a specific, easy-to-find source's products in an open thread. Even though this isn't an open board, that vendor can be found with about 10 seconds of Google work, so it's just like posting a hyperlink.

There is a lot of quality acetone out there....no need to stampede one specific vendor which appears to be rather soft and ripe for abuse.

Ultimately it's Vesp's call, but I don't see much to be gained from hinting at a specific place's 99.5% acetone. We can speak in generalities about lots of 99.5% acetone sold as pure acetone (as opposed to a product sold as generic solvent which happens to contain acetone).

In general, though, you're likely to find a better quality of acetone from a single ingredient product, sold as the chemical itself (not as a purpose), with a COA to back it up, as compared to whatever is on the shelf at the hardware store. That isn't to say that everything at the hardware store is junk - you'd be surprised at some of the purities - but I would trust the analyzed chemical over the OTC purposed formulation.

One of the reasons we're here is to learn from each other. If we didn't, we'd be plagued by bad habits, poor yields, and injury.

The points raised here are important, at least if you want to become a better chemist rather than just a cook.

psychexplorer seriously you need to lighten up. i dont run my al hg amalgums in broad daylight, more likely at night and at night mid way through the washes i ran out of dh20, all the stores were shut and i had 1 or 2 washes to go so i used tap. the last wacker i used 14mills of tap water, woopey.

i know its cheap, here it is 5 dollars for a 4L bottle so it aint that cheap.

If you are suprised by running out of dH2O midway through a procedure, then what other unpleasant surprises might be in store? Lack of clean glassware? Reagent shortage? Equipment problems? A good chemist will make sure everything is in order before beginning a series of steps. Running out of dH2O is almost as bad as not paying the power bill and watching your stirplate shut down halfway through.

Assuming the ridiculous price of $5/4L is in fact the best you can do, don't you have a distillation apparatus? dH2O can be prepared by distilling H2O.

One of the first points taught in any into lab course is that when a chemist says water, he means dH2O.

Strike felt it important enough to write this in TSII:

Since we're on the subject of lean water, this is as good a time as any to discuss what kind of water is used in all this chemistry. By clean water Strike means distilled water (dH2O). All reactions are to use distilled water (dH2O) only. All solutions and dilutions are to be made with dH2O as well. Distilled water sells for about $1 a gallon down at the supermaket. Tap water is an absolute no-no in chemistry except for cleaning the glassware.

Every introductory textbook will echo this same point. Since people often ignore the textbooks, maybe the book on MDMA might mean a bit more.

Take another look at that pool full of tap water.

If you think "clean enough" means "clean" when it comes to water, then I'd hate to see your definition of "dry enough" when it comes to your ether in a Grignard. Attention to detail matters. Sloppy is no good. We need our water distilled and our ether dry.

as for attacking an acetone vendor seriously these boards have approximately 20 people from all over the world online a day i think the vendors reputation wont be too tarnished. 

I never attacked any vendor. What I took exception with was a clear reference to a specific source. The source rule is one of necessity. We don't post sources in the open because that ends up burning good sources, whether it be from a stampede of spoon-fed kidiots, or (on an open board) the vendor finding the link and having to tighten up the order policy because he is no longer naive nor could he claim ignorance.

And finally

Quote

why would you spend the time on a second batch or a larger batch if you could instead take the time to do it right?

because, genius, these drugs are category 1. doing it right by taking a few extra hours to distill your toluene or whatever as opposed to just using it straight, serious man you are living in fantasy land where you think you have all the time and freedom to make your stuff ever so clean and perfect when it does not make alot of difference. and if we were to go and purchase all lab grade chems how much more does it cost.. ALOT more. you need a business name to get lab grade chems where i am from.

Possession of toluene isn't illegal. Distilling toluene isn't illegal. This goes back to the lack of foresight to have enough dH2O on hand. Solvent evaluation and cleanup should be done well in advance, as there is plenty of time for it. Why leave dirty toluene sitting around when you can clean it up when you get it and keep it for later? If you don't assess and purify your OTC solvents well in advance, what will you do if you're short of time and dealing with a mixture which is harder than usual to purify?

If you have to fit this all in a very short few hour window, that makes me wonder if you're cooking in a motel room, a camper, an apartment, a place with roommates, a familial residence, or something like that.

There's a reason why they round up thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of SnB'ers for every guy like Pickard. When you have the proper mindset, the proper location, and follow the rules, then you have the time to do it right.

If a few hours is the difference between a bust and not, then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. If you can't take as much time as you need, but not more, then your security needs improvement, or it shouldn't be run at all.

What it is means very little when it's behind the right veil of privacy.

Now suppose that toluene is a reactant, not a solvent. Would you nitrate dirty toluene in a makeshift lab on a very tight schedule? Now suppose during that nitration you ran out of ice because you forgot to buy enough beforehand. See where I'm going with this?

Sassy is simply unavailable where I live. That has been much more of a hinderance than the lack of common ACS grade reagents sold to anyone who is buying. Not having the standard stuff from a lab supply company sucks, but with good technique, you can prepare much of it yourself. The synthesis of safrole from only readily available chems is much more difficult than the synthesis of MDMA from readily available safrole sources. That $1.25/L dH2O isn't looking so bad after all.


I think your attitude towards quality says it all:

it does not make alot of difference

Which is why I only eat my own. The thought of a cook getting sloppy near the end and impatiently rushing to completion when he should be washing out the Hg is not pleasant at all.