Author Topic: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters  (Read 195 times)

no1uno

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Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« on: January 25, 2010, 04:57:11 AM »
I'm pretty fucking skint at present - can't work = no $$ so I would like to be able to follow in someone's footsteps

I have some references on getting Pt group metals out of catalytic converters and would seriously like to see some use made of them, like I say, I have neither the time nor the money to invest at present.

That said, Pt/C is a seriously useful reagent to have on hand and I think most everyone here would like some...

"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

shroomedalice

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 06:57:01 AM »
I have extracted the PGM's in cats in the past.

it is a lot easier than you would think as the fine particle size makes for an easy acid extraction.

I would soaking the honey comb in NP first though to extract the oil resedue.

Naf1

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 02:37:04 AM »
The amount of other materials present would make it undesirable. Alot of catalytic converters dont even have much palladium in them;



You would obviously want a brand new one, that was clean and easier to extract. So why spend all that money on a catalytic converter just to extract palladium that can be bought much cheaper than a catalytic converter that may be skimping on costs by substituting the expensive palladium with other metals such as Cerium, Iron, Magnesium etc ect. You would need an expensive one as it would have the most palladium in it.

eBay will bring up sources of palladium which can be converted (more easily than extracting the palladium from a catalytic converter) with HCl and chlorine to produce palladium chloride. Or just buy palladium chloride? there are a few places I can find selling it.

from wiki;

"Palladium on carbon is commercially available, with a CAS number of 7440-05-3. It can also be prepared in the laboratory. In a typical procedure, palladium(II) chloride and hydrochloric acid are added to nitric acid-washed activated carbon. This composite is then dried, and the palladium(II) is reduced to palladium(0) with hydrogen gas, and washed. The palladium loading is typically between 5% and 10%.[2]"

The only hard part is effectively reducing the palladium (II) to (0) by hydrogenation, but I would rather generate hydrogen over HCl anyday! And also it can be stored as palladium(II) safely, and when ready to use it, then reduce it to palladium(0) and when it has the absorbed hydrogen it is somewhat more dangerous to handle.

note; Many sources of OTC palladium coins and ingots etc/

PALLADIUM CATALYSTS
Organic Syntheses, Coll. Vol. 3, p.685 (1955); Vol. 26, p.77 (1946).
http://www.orgsyn.org/OrgSyn/default.asp?formgroup=quick_form_group&dataaction=db&dbname=orgsyn
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 02:44:08 AM by Naf1 »

shroomedalice

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 05:31:58 AM »
actually my freind naf you want the older ones as they have a lot more PGM than the new ones.

as we progress in tech we find our selves using less materials for the same job.

old truck cats that still have the honeycomb in them were the best for me.

3 too 6 grams of PGM per cat.

yes its not all Pd its a mix of rhodium palladium and platinum.

the rhodium is the hardest to refine requiring caustic fusion.

there are whole industries based on extracting the PGM's from cats.


no1uno

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 08:44:54 PM »
Using high-temperatures would burn off all the carbon-based impurities, the honeycomb would be destroyed effectively with both NaOH & HCl - removing all the NONE PGM components... that would allow for the PGM's to be dealt with in a semi-pure state.
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."

Naf1

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 12:41:00 AM »
"old truck cats that still have the honeycomb in them were the best for me. 3 too 6 grams of PGM per cat"

OK, you can buy palladium metal OTC.

A price check at eBay reveals;

Palladium flake (pure flakes) for 10grams = $12.99

Palladium flake 100 grams = $119

Palladium 5 grain (about 3grams) bar = $12.50

1-ounce Pamp-Suisse Palladium ingot = $452

1- troy ounce Pamp-Suisse fine palladium bar = $446



There are many other coins etc that can be bought completely OTC.

shroomedalice

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 03:34:28 PM »
you are right naf but there is money to be made legit from cats that is for sure.

a free supply of cats and an interest in chem will get you a long way.

Locked

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 06:36:28 PM »
You might want to check out metal wholsalers and big pawn shops. I bet you could pick up a bag of platinum rings that only had the diamonds cut off for melt value.

captainrush

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2010, 07:57:11 PM »
I scrap metal and smelt semi precious metals for a living so this thread is God send! shroomed alice how much platinum is recoverable from these cats on average? I have nearly unlimited access to the cats so Im hell bent on getting the rhodium out (mainly as a rare metal keepsake) so if any one has any helpful links on rhodium recovery, it would be gretly appreciated.

TooCold

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2010, 10:38:39 PM »
 Modern Marvels episode 487  (History Channel) has a segment that shows how the precious metals are reclaimed from catalytic converters on an industrial scale.

no1uno

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Re: Anyone equipped to try this? Pd from Catalytic Converters
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 08:01:07 AM »
There are a lot of papers on the subject but they seem to miss the basics - heat the fuck out of the catalytic converters to get rid of any organics/carbon (just throw them on a fire)...

That done, pour your everyday muriatic (HCl) acid down the top tube (block off the bottom one) and watch what happens, everything in there is soluble in it EXCEPT the PGM's (you could even use concentrated caustic soda solution, it will remove all the aluminium as aluminate, the cerium etc. I'm unsure of).

That should move things over to allow for less drastic measures than have been used to date - it should also reduce the volumes of high powered oxidants that need to be utilized (although chlorate is cited as being enough in it's own right). Reducing the volume down to the PGM's and insoluble crud allows the use of Nitric acid/HCl to remove the PGM's from the insolubles in solution (filter it out). Precipitate with NH3 to get the platinum, NaNO2 to get the Rhodium and oxidize it further to get the Pd from memory.

But the simple fact is, hydrochloric acid, by itself, is not going to remove the PGM's from the honeycomb... Once the organics are burnt out, 99% of the honeycomb is going to be soluble in HCl, the 1% that isn't is what we want. That should make things a little bit easier.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 08:24:42 AM by no1uno »
"...     "A little learning is a dang'rous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
    There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
    And drinking largely sobers us again.
..."