Water Powered Vehicles

Alice · Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:38 pm

Well hello to all beez
lately ive found new interest about this subject
in new era it is more than posible and there is already alot of research done
how this related to chemistry and this forum u ask???

1st of all its one of the forums that members deep researching almoust any subject by themselfs

2nd more important....
i want to collect the ultimate list of catalysts that split water to H2 and O2 gasses
there is 3 ways that i know about to do that split....
1: chemical.... catalysts that split it in pure chemical reactions without any input of energy into them
2: photo-chemical... photo-cells that split the water on sertain UV spectrums
3: electrolitic..... splits the sault water to H2 and O2 but demands high energy input

now im intrested in the 1st one
the idea is to split the water by catalists to H2 and O2 and then spark the mixture of those two in burning sells

green cars with endless suply of fuel

10x in advance
@lice

lurker4711 · Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:25 am

Have you ever heard about "thermodynamics"? Why don´t invent time-travel and bring the energy in buckets from the past?

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

lurker, have you heard about tesla?

the first rule of thermodynamic principles has been proven wrong long ago. you sure know what a heat exchanger is, right?

primathon · modified

laws of thermodynamics
entropy
heat exchangers

Good reading...

braindamage · Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:54 am

Alice · Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:28 pm

sure im familiar with thermodynamics

but there is already these kind of cars and electrochemical cells running and working with full power efficense

here is patent for electrolitic split for running car

stanley meyer water fuel cell

and simplyfied version of how to apply this cell to ur car

water powered car

here some pdf about powerfull high voltage electrochemical generators
those using catalysts to make positive ions and use free electrons for generate electricity (thats what used in those busses braindamage)

Fuel Cell Handbook

those things can be done !!!

joe_aldehyde · huxleys associate

heat exchangers prove the first law of thermodynamics wrong, since their efficiency factor is greater than 1.

braindamage · Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:05 pm

huh?there are gross and net efficiency factors,dont confuse `em.if a efficiency factor is greater than 1 that would mean that a colder fluid is actually heating the fluid w the higher temp.that would mean that the colder fluid will get even colder and the hotter even hotter...where does that E come from
there is a number of reasons why the efficiency factor is lower than one(or 100%)-first the obvious ones
-convection/conduction,a part of energy brought by the fluid must be lost to the heating of the shell which heats the other fluid,the material will never have such heat capacity or the conduction koef. so that no E or work(for the waddayacallit when the object changes its volume with the change of temp,P?) would be lost
-then there is E loss for the phase change,heating by radiation,and by heating the HEX itself(the amount of E loss depends on the spec Cp of the material,and even the surrounding air itself)

and then we add fluid dynamics to the whole thing,which also have their part in the E balances,so basicaly you have at least 3 different "types" change of E,and a lot of it is lost.If you have a 0.99999999999999 eff.fact. still a lot is lost,yeah you can "cheat" w reboilers/condensers but youll lose E every time..

lurker4711 · Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:58 pm

This water powered cars articles are complete nonsense.

Joe speaks probably of heat-pumps and not heat exchangers and those actually extract heat from a low temperature medium. But they are by no way against the laws of thermodynamics, the overall energy balance stays with the rules.

To split a water molecule takes a certain energy and no more energy can be gained by reuniting it. This is not cold fusion. A catalyst able to split water without needing this amount of energy would make a bomb out of any ocean. Ui!
A perpetual wheel as so often told to work by the old and disproven principle of the unbalanced wheel would destroy itself by accelerating to lightspeed. They don´t do as they don´t work.

anime · Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:14 pm

luke is right, you'd have to split the water using some other energy source before you can harness the power of hydrogen, as much as we'd like making a car move with just plain water, it is not possible.

A few methods to do so include ultrasound, electrolysis, and heating water to 950C which should split it up.

For the electrolysis, old hydrogen generators used a strong alkali solution (22-30%) metallic free potassium or sodium hydroxide. The new hydrogen generation use a solid polymer electrolyte.

Alice · Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:55 am

well if u do it electrolitic way then sure u need input the energy
and the energy comes as amplified electricity from the batery
its seems like enough to brake O-H bonds

on the other side in combustion cell there is way more higher output of energy in form of explosion
and that explosion dont requiers alot of gasses to be powerfull enough to run the motor

catalyst way on other hand dont requere any sort of input energy
chain of chemical reactions brake the water to H2 and O ions

lurker4711 · Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:12 am

loki · guinea pig

heat exchangers transfer free heat from the receiving side and the heat generated by the device in performing this transfer of heat is captured in the stream as well. they are an example of a circuit running at unity.

the problem with the laws of thermodynamics is that they assume that vacuum is zero, which is true, but it's zero because it has energy both positive and negative adding to zero (chaotic flux), not because it is empty. one only needs to make that energy come into alignment with each dipole going along each direction of the circuit and the circuit will take the energy from the space around it.

the conservation of energy is lacking from both relativistic and quantum physics formulas. why has nobody exploited this? relativistic physics even hints at the idea that energy should theoretically be able to be taken from the 4th dimension, which is where all of it comes from anyway.

the ways and means to exploit these facts long known about energy have not been very well researched due to the fact that those with the money for paying for research will not pay anyone to research means of disrupting the economic pyramid (which has those with possession of oil reserves and uranium deposits at the top) which keeps them in that position.

lurker4711 · Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:30 am

Besides it´s obvious that loki and joe are identical it just doesnt get any better.

loki · guinea pig

do some reading of tom bearden's ideas about electricity and energy conservation and you will see why we speak about it this way. the theoretical work he's done to prove that conventional electrical engineering is based on bullshit IS BASED ON ALL VERY MUCH PROVEN PHYSICS.

and if you actually read our posts in other areas you would realise that we most definitely are two different people.