Author Topic: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.  (Read 373 times)

Vesp

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General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« on: July 14, 2010, 09:16:18 AM »
I figure this should be an interesting thread, this topic is useful - if not interesting.

This thread  I thought was really interesting, and this linked within that thread: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15907955 I thought was the most interesting - though the melatonin issue is also worth considering - perhaps sleep with the lights on, as light inhibits melatonin creation?

Also not too sure where I came across this, might be in some other closely related thread, but http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100127121524.htm
Magnesium apparently boosts cognitive abilities - but it is hard to get it into the brain - any ideas how? Perhaps they will start selling OTC magnesium-L-threonate for this purpose? :D

Anyways, if you find any snippets of information that you find particularly interesting involving nootropics, memory enhancement, improving cognitive abilities, etc - post them here, I've personally love to see them.

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Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2010, 11:25:18 PM »
They appear to only sell magnesium supplements as magnesium oxide with other binding agents. Can anyone think of how I might be able to safely convert that into a salt that is more likely to pass the blood brain barier? Perhaps reacting it with glutamic acid, or glutamine to form an amino salt of magnesium - which might work sort of like the magnesium-L-threonate?
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Sedit

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2010, 11:40:45 PM »
You can buy magnesium suppliments so perhaps give them a shot and see if it warrents further investigation. I would say to attempt Magnesium citrate since the metabolism of it should closely resemble that of Magnesium-L-Threonte and it should not be hard to synthesize at all.
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Sedit

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 12:57:10 AM »
Careful,

Magnesium sulphate treatment decreases blood-brain barrier permeability during acute hypertension in pregnant rats.

Euser AG, Bullinger L, Cipolla MJ.

University of Vermont, Department of Neurology, 89 Beaumont Avenue, Given C454, Burlington, VT 05405, USA.

Someone please retrieve this if possible


Abstract
Quote

Eclampsia is associated with increased blood-brain barrier (BBB) permeability and formation of cerebral oedema. Magnesium sulphate is used to treat eclampsia despite an unclear mechanism of action. This study was to determine the effect of magnesium sulphate on in vivo BBB permeability and formation of cerebral oedema during acute hypertension and on brain aquaporin-4 (AQP4) protein expression. An in vivo model of hypertensive encephalopathy was used in late-pregnant (LP) rats following magnesium sulphate treatment, 270 mg kg(-1) i.p. injection every 4 h for 24 h. Permeability of the BBB was determined by in situ brain perfusion of Evan's Blue (EB) and sodium fluorescein (NaFl), and dye clearance determined by fluorescence spectrophotometry. Cerebral oedema was determined following acute hypertension by measuring brain water content. The effect of magnesium treatment on AQP4 expression was determined by Western blot analysis. Acute hypertension with autoregulatory breakthrough increased BBB permeability to EB in both brain regions studied (P < 0.05). Magnesium attenuated BBB permeability to EB during acute hypertension by 41% in the posterior cerebrum (P < 0.05) but had no effect in the anterior cerebrum (P > 0.05). Treatment with magnesium did not change NaFl permeability, cerebral oedema formation or AQP4 expression. In summary, BBB permeability to Evan's Blue was increased by acute hypertension in LP rats, and this was attenuated by treatment with magnesium sulphate. The greatest effect on BBB permeability to EB was in the posterior cerebrum, an area particularly susceptible to oedema formation during eclampsia.
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17933863


But no need to fear because correct use of it and we get a decrease in NMDA receptors and an overall sedating effect which could pose helpful to an overworked brain.

Brain and CSF magnesium concentrations during magnesium deficit in animals and humans: neurological symptoms.


Im going to continue to be a google hero now because its something that has interested me for a while but I have never taking it further then theory.
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Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 09:45:10 AM »
Well Magnesium sulfate is taken all of the time orally and I don't think it causes any problems, other than it is a laxative.

A sedating effect would be nice, that is probably what I need. Feels like there is something wrong going on, I'm over whelmed often at various things-- specifically social things more so than most people would be I'd think.
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embezzler

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 11:30:08 AM »
Magnesium sulphate treatment decreases blood-brain barrier permeability during acute hypertension in pregnant rats.

Euser AG, Bullinger L, Cipolla MJ.


Abstract:
Eclampsia is associated with increased blood-brain barrier (BBB) permeability and formation of cerebral oedema. Magnesium sulphate is used to treat eclampsia despite an unclear mechanism of action. This study was to determine the effect of magnesium sulphate on in vivo BBB permeability and formation of cerebral oedema during acute hypertension and on brain aquaporin-4 (AQP4) protein expression. An in vivo model of hypertensive encephalopathy was used in late-pregnant (LP) rats following magnesium sulphate treatment, 270 mg kg(-1) i.p. injection every 4 h for 24 h. Permeability of the BBB was determined by in situ brain perfusion of Evan's Blue (EB) and sodium fluorescein (NaFl), and dye clearance determined by fluorescence spectrophotometry. Cerebral oedema was determined following acute hypertension by measuring brain water content. The effect of magnesium treatment on AQP4 expression was determined by Western blot analysis. Acute hypertension with autoregulatory breakthrough increased BBB permeability to EB in both brain regions studied (P < 0.05). Magnesium attenuated BBB permeability to EB during acute hypertension by 41% in the posterior cerebrum (P < 0.05) but had no effect in the anterior cerebrum (P > 0.05). Treatment with magnesium did not change NaFl permeability, cerebral oedema formation or AQP4 expression. In summary, BBB permeability to Evan's Blue was increased by acute hypertension in LP rats, and this was attenuated by treatment with magnesium sulphate. The greatest effect on BBB permeability to EB was in the posterior cerebrum, an area particularly susceptible to oedema formation during eclampsia.
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Sedit

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2010, 01:08:53 PM »
Well Magnesium sulfate is taken all of the time orally and I don't think it causes any problems, other than it is a laxative.

A sedating effect would be nice, that is probably what I need. Feels like there is something wrong going on, I'm over whelmed often at various things-- specifically social things more so than most people would be I'd think.

MgSO4 laxative effect is the exact thing the paper that embezzler uploaded is putting warning to. Where as it increases osmosic flow in the gut causes a laxative effect in the brain it can lead to Cerebral edema or water on the brain. Instead of blocking water like the BBB is suppose to do it now allows much greater amounts to seap in causing problems.

As far as the social thing I would say go with Xanax. Nothing I have found comes close to its socializing abilitys other then alcohol and that makes you stupid on top of the "buzz". Freinds use to call Xanax a fifth in a pill while other use to call it self esteam in a pill.
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Aurum

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 01:52:01 AM »
Does anybody have any experience with ergoloid mesylates and any other ergoloid analogs? Ergoloid mesylates was developed by Albert Hofmann and is prescribed for myoclonus  as well as being  used to relieve the signs and symptoms of decreased mental capacity due to the aging process. It stimulates dopaminergic and serotonergic receptors and blocks alpha-adrenoreceptors. However, the mechanism of action is still unknown.
 The recommended dosage is roughly 3 mg a day .  It may be used with other nootropics like Piracetam, with which it is synergistic.

Naphyrone

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 09:56:12 PM »
5-HT6 antagonists interest me a bit as far as nootropics go. Too bad that appetite suppression is one of the side effects.

Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 12:01:39 AM »
Why is appetite suppression a bad thing?
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Naphyrone

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 06:10:49 AM »
because i already don't eat much, i would likely become malnourished from not eating enough

Bluebottle

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 08:19:14 PM »
It doesn't mean you can't eat, just that you might not feel as inclined to. Just remember to eat and you'll be fine.
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Tsathoggua

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 10:41:38 PM »
What about magnesium glycinate.

Would be a relaxant most likely via its action on strychnine-sensitive glycine receptors and improve cognition via binding to the glycine co-agonist site on the NMDAr complex.

Out of curiosity, is such a co-agonist site considered an allosteric binding site, or orthosteric? as it isn't strictly a modulator site but an actual nescessity for receptor activation?
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Satan

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 11:18:01 AM »
Would be a relaxant most likely via its action on strychnine-sensitive glycine receptors and improve cognition via binding to the glycine co-agonist site on the NMDAr complex.
What's your source on this?

embezzler

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2010, 07:37:08 PM »
Here is Nature Neuroscience's review and postulations regarding nootropics


Science and society: 'Smart Drugs': do they work? Are they ethical? Will they be legal?


Steven P.R. Rose

Nature Reviews Neuroscience
Volume 3,
Pages 975-979  (December 2002)
doi:10.1038/nrn984



Abstract:

Beyond pharmacological approaches to the treatment of memory loss that results from Alzheimer's disease or stroke, there lies a broad diagnostic penumbra of 'age-associated memory impairment'. New research that offers to attain the ancient goal of improving our cognitive ability raises an important issue — the use, by healthy people, of such pharmacological tools as cognitive enhancers. Here, I review the history and effectiveness of such supposed 'nootropics', and the ethical, social and legal issues raised by their potential use in disease and in the enhancement of 'normal' cognition.


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Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2010, 07:45:28 PM »
Oh the day that drugs that make you smarter become regulated will be a grand day, if it ever happens.
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Trips

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 04:49:41 PM »
Magnesium malate apparently is well-absorbed and easily available everywhere OTC everywhere here in Canada.  SISU brand.  Makes me feel smarter lol.

Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2010, 08:56:23 PM »
I don't think it is available in the same way in which it needs to be though...

I always take my magnesium supplement with a V8 since I think it might help its availability and ability into passing the BBB in the correct and safe way. It probably does neither.
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jon

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 01:25:58 AM »
i had a big brick of strychnine when i was younger i liked it in little doses.
it's an interesting smart drug lethal at 60 mg's but at low doses like 1 mg it enhances all your senses you feel relaxed but a little edgy too, colors, touch, hearing all get heightened a bit.
you know you took too much when you start to jerk violently, and your facial muscles tighten then relax in cycles.

 i highly recommend strychnine.

Vesp

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Re: General "Nootropics" Thread & Related Cognitive Improvement Supplements.
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 01:49:32 AM »
I would like to see a reference that strychnine has any nootropic effects. It might just make you feel as though it did.
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