Author Topic: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???  (Read 654 times)

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2009, 01:58:45 AM »
there's
a sar paper on these class of opiods here
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/bulletin/bulletin_1957-01-01_4_page006.html
i think para substutution diminishes potency

*From information so far available, it appears that the 4-aryl substituent of prodine-type compounds must be a phenyl group if optimum activity is to be attained. In the case of alphaprodine, Randall and Lehman ([14] ) have reported substitution of 4-phenyl by 4-cyclohexyl to result in a considerable fall in activity (see compound 5, table 2), while work in our own laboratories ([30] ) has shown that replacement by p-tolyl, o-tolyl and m-tolyl gives progressively less active substances (see compounds 25, 18 and 22, table 2).*

yep!!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 02:05:39 AM by jon »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2010, 06:37:02 AM »
well someone has made the propionoxy ester freebased it with ammonia and it's insolublwe in petro ether so ether is called for.
Sonicator on the way so this xpeririment can conducted it's propionoxy ester is quite good one can only imagine what this tweak will do?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 08:24:30 AM by jon »

lugh

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2010, 02:41:12 AM »
This article, JACS 62 2327-35 (1940) on working with lithium compounds by Gilman et al was scanned today:
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2010, 04:31:14 AM »
well godman jon does'nt have the software to open that up but they are fiesty now are'nt they?
a little air and atmospheric h2o and you got problems espescially in solvents like thf.
far more thermal btu's tha dynanmite.
jon thinks he"ll be doing this microscale.
with wet blankents and plenty of sand and fire retardardant clothing too.

from research the tert alyl lithiums are the strongest bases on book aryl lithiums may be slightlty different animals based on thier conjugation with the delocalized pi system but i think the pka for tert-butyl lithium was 2 enough to deprotonate anything espescially something enolizable as we were discussing this is going to to be an interesting expiriment.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 04:34:48 AM by jon »

Wizard X

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2010, 05:54:00 AM »
well godman jon does'nt have the software to open that up but they are fiesty now are'nt they?

http://www.djvu.org/resources/
Albert Einstein - "Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds."

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2010, 05:58:50 AM »
much appreciated!!!

lugh

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2010, 06:10:49 PM »
Irfan View will also open deja vu files with the plug in installed:

h**p://www.irfanview.com

Some other information on working with lithium compounds can be found in this file  8)
Chemistry is our Covalent Bond

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2010, 07:01:38 PM »
excllentread and they did metion it's pka value at 53 for tert butyllithium.
they also talk about organolithium's ability to induce anion catalyzed polymerizations which may be problelematic.
for example if the loperamide is esterified that incorprates an enolizazable proton but if it's left untouched then you have an even stronger base (an alkoxide)capable of inducing enolization of the dimethylaminde.

this is very informqtive on the subject of aklyl lithium induced polymerization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anionic_addition_polymerization

hmmm intersting to note these initiators are used in conjugated pi systems most fequently as in this quote

"The most commercially useful of these initiators has been the alkyllithium initiators. They are primarily used for the polymerization of styrenes and dienes"
both conjugated electron rich systems


this is interesting
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113343247/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
title: Electronic study of receptor binding of analgesic aryl moiety II: Prodine analogs

"The energy level of the highest occupied molecular orbital of the aryl moiety of these analogs may permit a charge transfer interaction between the aryl groups of the analgesic molecules and their receptors with the aryl groups acting as charge donors."
anything electron withdrawing like this pesky Cl would diminsh activity according to thier hypothesis and these are iraqi chemists so they know thier stuff working under saddam you would have to better know your shit!
or it's off to the woodchipper.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 03:20:30 AM by jon »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2010, 09:27:06 PM »
eureka!!!!
http://books.google.com/books?id=A38bvtjWvfkC&pg=PT242&lpg=PT242&dq=pka+%22aryl+lithium%22&source=bl&ots=SqIyt0RwGY&sig=5NfiGLUSTCxji5UqTWsg-CSzgyM&hl=en&ei=efxES8LfLY_iMayIzPEO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=pka%20%22aryl%20lithium%22&f=false

a base like butyl lithium among the strongest nucleophile of the orgoanolithium series does this to carbonyl groups:
it abstracts proton and then adds as a nucleophile to form some tetrahedral oxo lithium salt so this poses no problems as far as enol polymerization by deductive reasoning
(although my executive and reasoning skills are compromised by excessive intake of mdxx.)
however, upon quenching the product would be alkylated alcohol in this case.
but these are esters and tert amides so the milion dollar question is:
exactly how would they interact with aryl lithiums???
that ex: was sp3 chemistry this is sp2 chem and a different outcome could be expected no?

welll folks there ya have it.
the lack of search results on "aryl lithium ester enolates"
yeilds this result:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2ADSA_enUS346&q=%22aryl+lithium+ester+enolates%22&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

which leads one to conclude perhaps such an animal does'nt exist?
and again:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2ADSA_enUS346&q=%22enolate+arylation%22+%22aryl+lithium%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

don't be stupid, be a smarty come and join the nazi party!!!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 11:55:52 PM by jon »

Naf1

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2010, 12:11:41 AM »
"can't wait to crack that p-chloro nut."

You are not going to like the nutcracker!

That tert butyl lithium route would be a very unconventional way to approach the dehalogenation, conventional methods would have you use something along the lines of Tributyltin Hydride with azobisisobutyronitrile as a catalyst for nearly quantitative yields.


Total Synthesis of Indoles from Tricholoma Species via Bartoli/Heteroaryl Radical Methodologies
A. Dobbs, J. Org. Chem., 2001, 66, 638-641.
DOI: 10.1021/jo0057396

Other methods(catalytic hydrogenation) selectively removing the halogen from chloroarenes generally uses more exotic catalysts than those, ie;

Dehalogenation of polychloroarenes with sodium formate in propan-2-ol catalyzed by RhCl(PPh3)3
http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/DisplayArticleForFree.cfm?doi=b102191p&JournalCode=NJ


Cross-Coupling and Dehalogenation Reactions Catalyzed by (N-Heterocyclic carbene)Pd(allyl)Cl Complexes
Oscar Navarro, Harneet Kaur, Parisa Mahjoor and Steven P. Nolan*

O. Navarro, H. Kaur, P. Mahjoor, S. P. Nolan, J. Org. Chem., 2004, 69, 3173-3180.
DOI: 10.1021/jo035834p

Hydrogenation and Dehalogenation under Aqueous Conditions with an Amphiphilic-Polymer-Supported Nanopalladium Catalyst
Ryu Nakao, Hakjune Rhee and Yasuhiro Uozumi*

http://www.hrhee-hanyang.net/board_file_img/Org.Lett.%202005,%207,%20163-165.pdf

There are many more floating around, Nickel(0)/Imidazolium Chloride Catalyzed Reduction of Aryl Halides and so on....
In the literature I have seen, there are no methods for dehalogenation using lithium, sodium or potassium metals unless using tert butanol to dissolve lithium or sodium in, to prepare the corresponding metal alkoxide (for example Sodium-tert-Butoxide) as done in the third paper referenced. I am sure if they could have they would have just dumped some butyl lithium in and been done with it, but as you can see very specific (but not impossible to get) catalysts are required to specifically remove the halogen and leave an aromatic ring with all other functional groups intact. There are many palladium type catalysts that are suitable I am sure a palladium chloride on alumina type of paper could be dug up, palladium chloride is very get-able!

edit;"which leads one to conclude perhaps such an animal does'nt exist?"

You want aromatic lithium compounds!
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v401204385567525/
They do exist, and for the record just because it is unconventional does not mean it will not work!

Conjugate addition of lithium ester enolates to 1-chlorovinyl p-tolyl sulfoxides: a novel synthesis of functionalized esters and lactones having a tertiary or a quaternary carbon at the ?-position
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THR-48N3HSM-C&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d9d497da0adf06a1f316bd8bcb9b617a

Structure and Reactivity of Lithium Enolates. From Pinacolone to
Selective C-Alkylations of Peptides. Difficulties and Opportunities
Afforded by Complex Structures

http://infosee.ethz.ch/seebach/PULI/386_ACI_1988.pdf
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 12:41:41 AM by Naf1 »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2010, 12:39:41 AM »
umm i think it's not so complicated

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/109581869/abstract

Sodium formate catalytic transfer reduction, in the presence of palladium on carbon, accomplishes not only the rapid dehalogenation of aromatic chlorocarbons in water at room temperature, but also the reduction of the aromatic moieties to alicyclic rings at 100 °C. (© Wiley-VCH Verlag GmbH & Co. KGaA, 69451 Weinheim, Germany, 2004)

unless they failed to mention nano particle Pd.
there are other cth schemes using different hydride donors like hydrazine or potassium formate

Naf1

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2010, 12:45:50 AM »
"umm i think it's not so complicated"

That is indeed a much nicer procedure! I am sure I had a paper documenting a palladium chloride on alumina dehalogenation that was also very straight forward (cant seem to find it now).

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2010, 12:52:02 AM »
yeah know what ya mean i was looking for specific refs i had jotted down for the same synthesis but with differet H- donors much to my chagrin i can't find them, i shall go masturbate to alleviate this mounting frustration!
but now that i think about it room temp, cth; sonication would be purfect for that. for a number of reasones one being it would degass the solvent (water) of any catalytic poisons and increase the number of collisions between the heterogeneous catalyst and the dissolved substrate the prblem in these typw of schemes is that you get carbonates which precipitate and deactiviate the catalyst this is easily remedied by the addition of formic acid to regenerate the hydride donor and nuetralize the carbonate salts.

i rode the short bus to school and i  remember that
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 01:05:36 AM by jon »

Naf1

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2010, 01:09:08 AM »
"i rode the short bus to school and i  remember that"

Where I come from you guys get a special Blue bus!

Process for the debromination of 2-substituted-5-bromo-6-methoxynaphthalenes
United States Patent 5107013

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5107013.html

Naphthalenes of formula ##STR1## wherein X represents COCH3, COC2 H5, CH(CH3)COOH, CH(CH3)COOR, CH(CH3)CN and CH(CH3)CONHR1, R represents alkyl and R1 represents hydrogen, alkyl or hydroxyalkyl, are debrominated by means of acceptors of bromine, like alkylarenes and alkoxyarenes, in the presence of Lewis acids.

All the compounds normally used as catalysts in the Friedel-Crafts reactions, like AlCl 3 , FeCl 3 , ZnCl 2 , TiCl 4 can be used as Lewis acids, even if the aluminum chloride showed to be particularly useful.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 02:25:32 AM by Naf1 »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2010, 02:03:06 AM »
blue bus!
wow i'd feel really "special" then!!!
you's guys must get the red carpet.

actually that's the dude that carrried a baby to term as seen on tv correct?
wow!
and i though chia pets were the fad.

naf that patent is as longwinded and obfuscatory as: U.S. vs. Proctor and Gamble
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 10:09:45 AM by jon »

chemrox

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of??? ACS refs
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2010, 11:10:21 PM »

"and apparently via a dissolving metal reduction using calcium"
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es010716%2B


When you post an ACS article could you either post the whole article or give us all a login we can use?  It's useless to most of us to have this kind of incomplete information.  I lost my ACS login ahwile back and no-one has stepped up with a good one yet.  Thanks.

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2010, 11:55:17 PM »
chemrox i'm glad to have you here to join this discusion check your mail

also may i note that this is dealing with hghly deactivated aromatic systems.
meaning that chlorine will easily reduce from these systems the situtation of matter here is an aromatic ring which is slightly acitvated athough not greatly activate since the electron donating group is para.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:58:16 PM by jon »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2010, 10:31:15 AM »
oopsie i eat my words this is as good as it gets j. of appl. catalysis.

they say activated, or deactivated rings exhibit reduced reactivity.

very thorough.
explains kinetics, everything.
here it is w/o further ado.

and chemrox your reference even stated
"The cleavage of the carbon?chlorine bond on the aromatic ring bearing electron-donating group was difficult compared to the one bearing electron-withdrawing group."
in the case of calcium/ethanol dissolving metal reductions.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2010, 10:38:23 AM by jon »

jon

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2010, 09:13:42 AM »
mkayy got the somicator the pd/c the loperamide water white pute just need the formates and we be banging.

Enkidu

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Re: loperamide is it possible to form a grignard complex of???
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2010, 08:37:44 PM »
Have you got that formate yet? I'm eagerly awaiting your results.