Methcathinone help.

a-SalviaLover · eating chemicals

From which products can swyi find toluene (or xylene) and 2-propanol? 10x in advance!

loki · guinea pig

from products labeled as such? suppliers of petroleum products usually have the former, as do tradesman's supplies depots, and as for the latter, i've mainly seen it in the tradesman's depots but it's expensive... but i've not looked that far. methanol is probably cheaper and better anyway, and can be bought from remote control car places as well as petroleum depots.

a-SalviaLover · eating chemicals

Methanol? How can it be used in an acid base extraction? I don't consider it nonpolar solvent, which can easily be separated from water!

loki · guinea pig

it was not me who first mentioned 2-propanol (isopropanol). one would use dry methanol or isopropanol with dry acetone after the extraction to crystallise it. i personally hate isopropanol, and methanol is so much cheaper.

a-SalviaLover · eating chemicals

Yes, isopropanol was the other ingredient which swyi doesn't know where to obtain from! (He don't prefer obtaining from chem supply houses). The deal is that methanol will oxidise to formic acid which is not as volatile as acetone (the product of the oxidation of isopropanol.)

stratosphere · Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:37 pm

loki · guinea pig

yeah you are correct, the codeine is methylmorphine... hmmm

well, ephedrine will form an alkoxide at a higher pH, like 13.5 or so... maybe drive the pH up this high and wash the ethylmorphine out? or will the ethylmorphine form a phenolate too...

looks like the only surefire strategy would be forced steam distillation

loki · guinea pig

i thing acetic acid would be fine too... since it's an oxidation and water is ok anyway wouldn't ethyl alcohol (95%) work just as well? i'm not exactly keyed up on the proper methods of making methcat, it always seemed too difficult to acquire the oxidising agents... but now i have about half an ounce each of permanganate and dichromate salts which are the two oxidisers i seem to recall were always talked about... in any case i prefer less oxygen on my ephedrine than more Very Happy

stratosphere · Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:34 am

actually he could kill 2 birds with one stone, use BF3 or whatever method to convert the ethylmorphine to morphine, this shouldn't cause any side reactions with the ephedrine. then he could seperate the ephedrine fom morphine via the morphinate salt, and would have 2 usefull products.

loki · guinea pig

if one can get boron triflouride that is... good idea stratosphere

a-SalviaLover · eating chemicals

Swyi doesn't think it would be such an easy job. Ih ethylmorphine can be turned into morphine, it would be great. But this process wouldn't be so easy i think. Does anyone has a source where this reaction is described?

About the methanol and ehantol, in the FAQ was written that using primary alcohols is not recommended, cause it won't be easily separatable. Besides, methanol would cause racemisation or sth like that.

About the ethylmorphine at this level, all swyi is interested in is if it appears in the final product, how would the oxidising agent make sth poisonous from it. Swyi doesn't have the apparatus for steam distillation. We'll learn how to make morphine out of ethylmorphine later.

And the other wuestion wasabout the Ph ephedrine would turn from its salt to freebase.

loki · guinea pig

the pKa (50/50 freebase/salt point) of ephedrine is 9.6 or something like that, the exact figure can be found somewhere.

a-SalviaLover · eating chemicals

Well we don't need to be exact enough. I know what you mean about the oxygen in the ephedrine. However, swyi is still an amateur chemist who has much of a theoritical knowledge but not much practical experience. And reduction looks like pain for him and oxidation seems much easier. Besides, some people even say that Cat itbetter than speed for parties cause it makes you more gooey and speed makes you more concentrated. Swyi hasn't tried cat, but from what he understands from neuropharmacology, Cat should stay somewhere between phed and speed in its effects. And he think they'll be satisfactory.

He hopes that someone knows more about the oxidation of ethylmorphine and its solubility in acetone. If it's more soluble in acetone than pfed, much of it would be lost during recrystallisation!

stratosphere · Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:58 pm

yes,after some more research i realize i underestimated the complexity of the ethylmorphine-->morphine conversion. i don't think it is so practical anymore.

the oxidation agent would certainly react with the e-morphine, permangenate reacts more quicly with alkene double bonds then hydroxy groups(ref 1), so this would give you 3 hydroxy groups on the bottom ring, this is assuming no unexpected rearrangmets occur, which under further oxidation would cleave giving carbon dioxide and 2 carboxylic acid groups, this would give you a way to seperate it from your cat, as it would remain in a basic aqueous solution were cat would go to the NP.

the challenge here is finding conditions were you can get the e-morphine stuff to cleave but also not over oxidize your ephedrine.

if you switched to chromate as your oxidant, which gives better yields, your morphine should be converted to the a,b unsaturated O-ethyl analog of vicodin, the activity of this i am clueless about.

ref 1) http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA5/MAIN/1ORGANIC/ORG05/TRAM05/A/0171503/MOVIE.HTM

loki · guinea pig

i'm just a little curious as to why stratosphere cannot find a source of pseudoephedrine that lacks difficult adjuncts (and i might point out that nasty pill compounding agents aka 'gakks' have not even been considered). the new straight to bee III method which has been published in the misc.stimulants forum is extremely easy and simple and apparently effective against even the evil methacrylates and peg's.