Author Topic: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.  (Read 351 times)

Vesp

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Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« on: October 14, 2010, 04:12:00 AM »
It has been suggested before that I set up a donate thingy to help pay for the costs of hosting, and all of that jazz. In one of the conversations I was having, they suggested that any of the excess money that might be made could be set aside and given to members for research grants.

Apparently synthetical (or however you spell the name of that site) did just that or something similar - I'm getting that info from word of mouth so I don't really know.  EDIT: I'd like more information on this synthetical grant thing  (if it even existed... apparently that was a ran by a pretty corrupt nut... as I am finding out according too this thread http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3381)
I can imagine how that could benefit this community, however...  I figure it is best not to tamper with this site as it is runny smoothly and Don't fix it if it aint broke, right? especially if it could run it into problems.

Anyways this suggestion got me thinking and I have came up with the idea of creating another primarily forum based website that would be for amateur scientists, such as the chemists, biologists(mycologists, botany people) as well as homework help stuff. All have a pretty big population online.

Ads would be placed in abundance in posts, as banners, and in threads, as well as in the assumed additional pages of the website. In order to hopefully raise nearly 10 dollars a day. The 10 dollars a day would go to providing a 100 dollar grant each month, and a 500 dollar grant every three months in addition to the 100 dollar grant. Than the other money goes to general site costs, and any left over will naturally go to me for other grand projects.

People would propose experiments/research projects in which they wanted to perform and people would vote to determine at the end of each month who got the money to pursue the research.
Hopefully the grant money would only aid to buying some of the materials for the experiment.
So people could perform experiments costing 200 or 1000 dollar research projects by respectively spending only 100 or 500 dollars of their own money.

The site would than publish articles written by the members who it had given grant money - a required part for receiving any money. Additionally other articles written by the members, for free, just like they do over at sciencemadness.

The ads would be coming from companies that would hopefully form a strong business based relationship with the site and sell the wanted science materials and in return would make money from the increased exposure AND the members who received the grant money. I figure mycology, and hydroponics shops would be happy to help as well as other home chemist shops....

A supporters account would also exist-- say, costing 20 dollars a month - giving them extra permissions and get their own little grant system with increased odds of winning.

Donations would also be excepted for the cause and additionally their would be other resource opportunities - such as the Pepsi Refresh Project -- once the member base were big enough, large amounts of money could be obtained. Possibly it could be turned into a non-profit organization and really start pulling in money to give individual research grants to home scientists on an international level....

Clearly the biggest problem is going to be getting enough pages and members in the beginning for it to take off.

So - How is it I create thousands of web-pages of useful content that will get people to come across the site to become active and supporting members as well as click on and view ads?

My original idea was to convert Vogel and other public domain science books into HTML based documents and add ads into each page and make it a click through book. Key words would pop-up all of the time in google searches, and get a ton of traffic.

However, I have had significant difficulty in turning a PDF with images into text based google-search-able HTML document that can have ads implemented in it.

I am asking - how might I go about creating nearly a thousand webpages relating to science that can have ads on them, all the while not infringing on copyrights or breaking any other of those foolish laws or stepping on anyones toes?


Also - what do you think of my idea? What problems might arise, and cause it to fail/ or never succeed?
How might you go about it if you were to do it? Any advice is deeply wanted.

Obviously this new site will be extremely intolerant of drug discussion and other stuff - since it will deal with business and be much more open.

I have thought about it for a month or two and it goes much deeper than what I have explained - but I do not feel like going into detail at the moment as when you really get into the detail of it and such it becomes a big long and complicated idea... additionally my ideas towards this type of site might inhibit the suggestions and ideas on how I might go about doing this site more effectively...


So any ideas on how to generate content, which will than generate money from ad placement, which will be given to home scientists?




« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 03:38:05 AM by Vesp »
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salat

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 03:32:39 PM »
I just retired from my job as a programmer/analyst.  I did some web programming and that is probably the best way to create the content and manage the ads.  I worked for the govt so I don't have any hands on experience with the ad/web commerce aspects.  My big strenth was gis mapping, data intensive programs, and databases.  Databases are a way to create a lot of web content.

Let's say you start compiling chemical synthesis (there aren't many free websites that i could find).  Your database might have a table that fields for things like the chemical name, alternates, urls to ads, and the actual instructions, etc.  When someone clicked on methylamine for example they would get back all the various types of methylamine as links.  Click on a link for a specific document and it gets generated from the information in the database.  You do have to get all the information into the database but it winds up becoming a management tool as well.  You don't have to edit each page individually instead you change the data in the database and the next person who clicks on a page gets the new version.

Do a search for asp.net - a novice can generate some really cool stuff with it.  If you need any more advice drop me a line.  Most of the web stuff I wrote was web query pages for databases.  (I know a variety of programming and database languages but much as I hate to say it Microsoft has the easiest to learn and use for nonprofessionals.
 
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embezzler

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 04:21:28 PM »
Here would be the gist of my suggestion:

The Journal of unpublished research:

Basically a site for the delivery of high quality research, peer reviewed, that for one reason or other the mainstream journals havent published. A small fee for online listing and peer review would generate revenue and then use some tastefully placed ads to generated further revenue and everybody wins. You would own the copyright for all content and the unmentioned researchers would have a large and useful resource.

You would need some qualified individuals to assist with the peer review but other than that you could be onto a winner??

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overunity33

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 05:38:46 PM »
Lets say you had a page dedicated to synthesising a certain substance, most likely you will have references from patents/journals.  Upload these in a way that they are search engine indexable and attach them to the page.  This way you get hits from anyone interestd in the patent/article and they get practical applications of what they are searching for.  As you know one process could have references to as many 20 patents/articles.  You could automate the patent grabbing but the refs you are gona have to add manually.  I think that is a great idea for a website. 

Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 06:55:23 PM »
@Salat
That sounds like a much better system than what I had in mind. I don't know to much about all of that so I will look into it more, and comment on it later when I've got some ideas/questions, etc

@embezzler
The Journal of unpublished research is a really great idea, and with addition too home scientist publications. That allows for the creation of lots of content with appropriate ads placed accordingly.
 I think finding some qualified individuals to peer review and so on would not be THAT tricky. Lots of people at sciencemadness and other places seem to have a high education and practical experience. I think they would likely to help.

@overunity33
The patent grabbing idea is good! Other articles could only be added if they were public domain/open source.

Lots of potential here, seems like it will be a long time before all of the power of the good ideas are implemented.

Any other suggestions?
I'll work on it a bit more and share my own ideas of it in more detail - and than with a bit of group think and suggestions we ought to be able to produce a seriously useful site to home scientists, which is most of us here.


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embezzler

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 07:15:34 PM »
Quote
The Journal of unpublished research is a really great idea, and with addition too home scientist publications. That allows for the creation of lots of content with appropriate ads placed accordingly.
 I think finding some qualified individuals to peer review and so on would not be THAT tricky. Lots of people at sciencemadness and other places seem to have a high education and practical experience. I think they would likely to help. 

I think that it could pay for itself once you maintained it as an online publication. had a good search engine, a credible peer review. Over flow cash which would be generated by charging a small fee for peer review (from which a percentage could be paid to the reviewer as an incentive) would encourage people to participate and could fund some of the home chem sites with grant like bursaries etc.

I can only imagine what sort of research is available but kept unavailable by editors of some of these publications.
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Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 10:05:59 PM »
Yeah, and I am sure if someone got their article rejected for publication they would be happy to send it there.

Seems so tricky to get started though.
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solidstone

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 07:16:06 AM »
I would gladly fund research if it had direct application to something I'd be interested in working on.  Perhaps having a section of the forum with threads for experimental proposal ideas, then a means for members to contribute directly to the proposals that interest them.  This would make sure the useful research found funding quickly while the less useful research was only performed if a particular party was interested enough to shell out for it.

Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 09:08:41 PM »
So what would be a good name for such a site?
One that does the following, and has the following goals in mind:

*Provide grants to underprivileged and under funded scientists - either amateur or professional

*Peer-Reviews content that has been submitted by the amateur, professional, or content that has been rejected/unpublished by other major journal systems

*Make scientific materials as readily available as possible at an international level - including knowledge, chemicals, equipment, and so on.

*Is powered by ad revenue, donations, supporter accounts, and perhaps by selling Mugs, hats, artwork, etc.

*Has a method of determining who receives grant money based on a  vote of the active members AND direct donations to certain proposed projects.

*Works to promote a mutualistic relationship with science supply companies that sell to individuals by giving them low-cost and effective advertisements.

* possibly other stuff? such as providing information for readily available chemicals, readily obtainable microbes, and a classifieds ad and market place in which equipment, chemicals and services can be sold and traded from one entity to another.

*eventually if enough money is made from this or if another group is willing - perhaps very low cost or free analysis of various chemicals or biological organisms using spectroscopy, electrophoresis, etc. Either by college students or employees who need to practice the techniques of using the equipment and performing the tests  anyways - possibly forming a unique relationship with various universities....


Please mention any other suggestions that could be added to aid in the direction and success of this site/organization. :)


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java

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 10:07:50 AM »
.....for what is worth, it's well to leave a good thing alone and not travel the way of Synthetikal, in wanting to do all sort of enterprising changes. Look at Sciencemadness , the've been around a while and they know that works and have kept away from the many suggestions made by various members, on the virtues of x, y and z.

If members feel the need to enterprise and do various changes  of development, there are other forums that provide that and don't need try to mold this forum to please their needs. If it's administration trying to , so called inovate and go the way of Synthetikal then count me out ....i've been there and saw the waste of time and loss of a once triving forum due to this type of "innovations".

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embezzler

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 12:25:19 PM »
I think this was an idea for another site Java in addition to this one.

At the very least that is what my suggestion was aimed at... I like this place as it is.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 12:27:40 PM by embezzler »
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Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 04:49:46 PM »
Quote
I can imagine how that could benefit this community, however...  I figure it is best not to tamper with this site as it is runny smoothly and Don't fix it if it aint broke, right? especially if it could run it into problems.

Yes certainly not for this site.

Quote
So what would be a good name for such a site?


I didn't realize their were such bad experiences with this sort of idea. Considering that their is, it is probably best to leave it as that, an idea.

However, making a grant system and publishing the unpublished research as well as a few other things listed above I think would really benefit a lot of people.
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Klosetkhem13

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2010, 05:31:41 PM »
ok champions of the digital electro sourcery.rarely do i chime in its directly related to the fact that as of current i have very little to offer in the talk of alchemy.no reall to day i succesfully extracted salt from pse tablets.yea yea laugh it up.one thing i can bet on is every person reading this has had the little broad with an umbrella show up unexpetectedly at least once damn morton salt kid gave me a high yield salt extraction.sorry just a title belt holder in the world chumpionship.hence the post.As far as the grant concept hey boss are you high of course its a good idea.Amine lets face it unless your dad is an outlaw biker kooking thatz good stuph the regular population as a whole will havreal exposure to the very most basic part of our entire universe.three letter agency forbid learning it.insanity really its a rare chance to restablish the chemist image in the community in  the present we are viewed as pos also for people like me that had all the desire just not enough guidance and tutoring and mentoring.. hold on chloroform is what they call that stuff iver been breathing.hope its not toxic.thats what were up against in that light real important your idea

Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2010, 06:09:57 PM »
You are a difficult one to understand.
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director of sound

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 07:47:59 PM »
i think overtunity33 would agree with me too, talk to Mrs. 3 and freaky over at mycotopia, we have a donation system that grants users VIP or sponsor based on donations or advertising on the site. VIP members have the ability to use the market place to trade and sell stuff and use the live chat on the site, while ordinary users can only post in the forum. she has a good system built for giving and receiving donations through the site. VIP's pay a minimum for a monthly or yearly rate to keep their VIP status and are incuraged to donate more when they feel like it. there is also auctions that go on where a member would post something up for auction and the highest bidder donates that amount to the forum.

embezzler

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 08:11:15 PM »
Quote
VIP members have the ability to use the market place to trade and sell stuff


Dont get me wrong I think that Mycotopia has a nice vibe and is a great site

I think that what Mrs. hippy 3 allows others to trade falls more firmly into the grey area of legality than this boards discussed interests. I think that this would be reckless here.

This would put the vespiary on the radar of those whose attention is best avoided.

my 0.02$

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solidstone

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 08:16:57 PM »
The trick is an invitation only forum located off site.  Out of sight, out of mind.

embezzler

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 08:27:52 PM »
Then your invite could be viewed as solicitation could it not? There are more competent advisors and one of counsel who can definitaly answer this better than I can but I think this would bee a call to the exterminators.
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lugh

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2010, 10:30:01 PM »
There's no way the Wasp's Nest should be involved in any sort of trading, there is the case of the founder of the Hive in case anyone has forgotten about what will eventually happen  8)
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Vesp

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Re: Vesp's Great Idea - In need of advice.
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2010, 11:08:50 PM »
This idea would not be for this site!

If it were for this site, it would be in the Site Matters board.

I am just saying in general - as a totally non-drug related, science based community.
Something to help out the amateur scientists.
No trading of any gray area materials even.
But just a classifieds place, a forum, and a journal system to help get money via ads to go to grants to help pay for experiments, etc.


I don't allow trading on this site for a reason - and I don't even really except donations to pay for hosting.
This site is just fine the way it is.

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