Author Topic: Dateline - Strike (Read 877 times)

overunity33 · « **Reply #40 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:46:30 AM »

yeah, maybe we could do a members only wiki.. where you have to be invited or else write a short bit about your interests etc... If you guys would really help with a wiki I could get it hosted on offshore servers and make it nice and anonymous.. we could also have a chat on the backend that was pretty secure...

what do you guys think? I can do everything but the content, can't fill the site alone..

overunity33 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:47:48 AM »

that way the public can see the wiki but only members can download references/chat

Vesp · « **Reply #42 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:51:44 AM »

It'll need to be more complicated than that - I would think?...

I support multiple people working on the same idea/concept but on different projects.

A strong push towards a library once mentioned and focused on strongly around here, Naf1 started to work on it even... many people had many different ideas, and it never happened.

It is important to consider what is practical, what the main goals of it shall be, and so fourth... if one takes on this project it is important to not let it die with chasing castles in the sky, or scope creeping/advice from scope creeps...

Sedit · « **Reply #43 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:58:24 AM »

The copywrite issues where partly my fault. When I setup the search engine for the site it allowed ALL bots to index the damn thing instead of just the search engine spider so next thing I knew I was comming up #4 on google search engines under some terms.. Is there a way to get a site unindexed?

lugh · « **Reply #44 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:00:35 AM »

If it's hosted as a TOR hidden service it will be more secure

aniracetam · « **Reply #45 on:** May 04, 2011, 03:04:13 AM »

Quote from: psychexplorer on April 04, 2011, 03:03:13 AM

and volumes of online contributions from authors like Rhodium and Drone 342 advanced the underground more than they hurt it.

surely you're kidding about the latter. he clowned on anyone who entertained the thought of working with the fungus out of sheer ignorance, because he was a bromocriptine fanboy.
His suggested tryptamine to dmt synthesis leads to substituted tryptoline compounds.

speaking theoretically about syntheses is all fun and good, but an exercise in mental masturbation at best. characterization
of end products speaks volumes louder than proposed syntheses.

The Lone Stranger · « **Reply #46 on:** May 04, 2011, 12:02:16 PM »

Why not just set up work groups to do it in private trusted members only subsections and then when its reached a worthy state anonymously flood it into the internet . Later when new things come along they could be issued as updates . That way there would be less / no problems with copywrong issues for this site .

salat · « **Reply #47 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:06:20 PM »

Code: [Select]

Is there a way to get a site unindexed.

You can google that one, I'm pretty sure they reindex periodically.

Something you also want to opt out of is the wayback machine.
There's a way to make them stop archiving you as well (if they are).

http://www.archive.org/about/faqs.php#2

Code: [Select]

set up work groups to do it in private I don't think there's any such thing as privacy on the internet. And releasing synth's that become popular will make you a REALLY big target.

Salat

The Lone Stranger · « **Reply #48 on:** May 04, 2011, 02:53:23 PM »

" I don't think there's any such thing as privacy on the internet. "

Touche !!! Yes your right and i agree with you . I should have said that diferently . As far as the brownie recepies goes it doesnt matter how one goes about a wiki it will get enemys and shot at . Thats why i think it should be done first . Then cleaned up so it doesnt point at anyone and then released enmass maybe through bit torrent so that it floods the sceen and cant be stoped . I cant think of a safer way to do it ....... other than not to do it . For me its two things the decision to do it and then minimiseing the risk . I realy realy realy think it should be done . We all owe everything we know about cooking special brownies `n things to people who went before . They laid the foundations and took a lot of risk and did a lot of time for doing it . We owe it to them and to future generations to do it . Maybe people like me can play a role . I am less than useless at chemistry but i`ve done my time on the active fighting front and payed the cost = i cant do any more there BUT i have lived my life and taken a lot so i think its good if i put my head out of the window for others = i can afford to take a few risks coz all the fuckers can do is lock me up for a bit . A lot of others cant do that because they are still in active duty and we need them .

Thats part of the reason for me touting the guys Ark = what the fuck is Satan Sam ( LOL ) going to do to me if he finds out it is me touting it ? Its to late for an early death for me........ The older i get the louder i`m going to get and i dont give a fuck if Big Sam shoots at me............ looking at my reflection in my monitor i see something like what i imagine a ferret would look like if it could smile like a cheshire cat..........

overunity33 · « **Reply #49 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:39:05 PM »

A super security conscious offshore hosted wiki/messaging backend dedicated to organizing and developing synthesis information for all sources at our disposal. The pm system will manditorily use public private encryption seamlessly like the shroomery does, hopefully we can also do the same with chatrooms without killing the server. It will have SSL access and again it will be offshore and DDOS proof, its kind of expensive but you pay for this hosting with egold/etc, makes donations and payments anonymous

this is what im thinking:
a wiki that you can see with public registration, with basic private messaging. To edit it you have to have an elite account - by being invited or approved by submitting original material. Once you have an elite account you can edit the pages, join the chat room(with private rooms also - this will be locked down tight with encryption), view the uploaded references, the public members will only see the abstract/doi/etc. a simple script can take care of this. If a public user wants to change something he would write a proposal and send it to a member that would deal with moderation. There can also be elite account only tags for the wiki which would deal with sensitive precursors, etc., these items tagged would simply disappear for public users, this can be also used if you wanted to have a small intelligent conversion inside the wiki and edit/trunctuate it down later.

every interesting compound, intermediary, precursor, reagent etc will have a page:
basic compound information: (solubilities, mp, bp etc super great for obsure compound data not in literature)
pictures?
availability (discuss what it is used for, natural sources, etc, )
basic synthesis information (reaction mechanisms, various reaction routes,)
related reactions
areas where experimental results/writeups are truncated, crosslinked and posted for each reaction
lab tips/apparatus advice/practical tidbits
references/quality posts from hive/etc - strict moderation so its not bulky, just jewels of knowledge or insight
peer reviewed references with short discussion on merits - elite can download, public sees abstract/doi

For the elite members there will be a function which generates backups every day that can be downloaded by a small group of elite members in charge and uploaded as a torrent every few weeks. This small group will be in charge of preserving this information and distributing it, they will be the active members of the community.

this could be hosted anonymously and populated with information by us, and then once its up and running donations toward the hosting costs could keep it afloat. It is gona require some cash up front.

Shake · « **Reply #50 on:** May 04, 2011, 04:50:19 PM »

OK you know what? in lamens terms, using little to no punctuation, i suggested this exact thing to vesp yesterday.

I will pay donations to vesp, along with others i am sure, to set up a site with a new secure host, solely owned by vesp.. the users will pay for it, and it will be highly secure, no ips recorded on posts, nothing like that.. the thing is, vesp needs cash to set it up and buy a new forum template thing, he will need to be able to do the work he already does whilst still having money to live.. now if this place had a monthly fee, i would pay it and use the site rather than just post procedures and what not on a free public forum..

i like that post overunity33 well explained, that would be awesome.. and it will only be possible if we have vesp and mods to keep posts clean and keep things smooth.. he cant do it all day to day for free i imagine.

if the site is completely secure with proof of it shown, how many lurkers will post? there might be heaps!

Vesp needs to set up a paypal so we can start donating to build up enough funds to take this site private and elite. there are 40 or so of us online a day, upto 77 posts in a day if 20 of us chip in 10 bucks here and there whenever we are feeling generous, then when it hits 10 - 15k its all set!

there are too many usefull 1 in a million people here to not stick together, secure us all, and make some serious moves forward!

beanhead · « **Reply #51 on:** May 04, 2011, 06:25:10 PM »

YES please!

The vast amount of internet sources I checked with such misinfirmation made it VERY frustrating for me. What members have said earlier in this thread; the people that want to do the chemistry will be dedicated enough to eventually get it right but I have had my hands through my hair when something failed yet again and there was nobody I could ask a STRAIGHT question.

But there's a major diffirence between trying to derive information from speedfreak recipes (with lack of information) and a well-organized (encrypted) wiki that actually makes sense.

This idea seems very plausible, I wanted to do this myself for quite a while but if a lot of people put their mind on it then that's even better! I'm willing to contribute (as much as I can) to this. A monthly fee to be a part of this is a bit too much though (imo) but I wouldn't mind donating once in a while to get there.

Vesp · « **Reply #52 on:** May 04, 2011, 06:50:20 PM »

How does WikiLeaks do it?
Thats how it ought to be done... perhaps?

Hosting all the files in one basket is a bad idea IMO - and offshore isn't that much safer, costs $$$$ and if they find you annoying they just delete your account... Right?

Bluebottle · « **Reply #53 on:** May 04, 2011, 08:56:29 PM »

It's very snazzy a charming idea, but keep in mind that the fancier it is the more wrath it could inspire. Verily as a beacon can also be a target. God forbid it becomes a symbol, no expense is spared in the attack of a symbol (as was illustrated recently). And especially by the increasingly desperate. Maybe that's what you want, a good talking point raise public awareness, but hell it's a whole can of worms. Just something to think about, I don't know but imagining myself as such a force that's how I would see it.

Sedit · « **Reply #54 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:29:54 PM »

I think a great Wiki would start off by indexing various biochemicals pathways such as the DA, 5HT, NA ect.... laying the ground work and cover for the synthesis of Biological substances that drive this biochemical systems in one direction or the other.

If you notice in the above paragraph the word drug was not mentioned a single time yet following this principle one would have the ability to make a totally open to the public Wiki that could not only be used by people willing to make drugs but by chemist, doctors, pharmacys ect... It would be as though one attempted to map the entire human metabolism and could operate under this guise.

The Lone Stranger · « **Reply #55 on:** May 04, 2011, 09:53:42 PM »

No critic just some thoughts .

I dont understand a need for secrecy ? If one doesnt tell people to do illegal things one isnt breaking any laws .
A web site can be closed though .......hive ......rhodium .
The makers can be easily hunted down and get problems ........ strike and others .
A chemistry site for synthesis is not a place that would attract straight people like doctors and pharmamcists .
Doing a total chemistry project would be to big . It needs to stay small = on the same lines as the hive and rhodium but without the ballast . .
A web site that was the center where the wiki was made and the public could look things up is ....... putting all one eggs in one basket .
Split the results from the public = two baskets one where the trusted makers are as safe as posible and another where the public has acsess .

Or a closed entry web site where its made and an iso that gets released as a torrent so that there is much less chance of the makers getting problems = longer life and less risks .

What are the pros and cons of ---->
A web site with everything on it ? Makers and users .
A closed web site / web site section where it could be made ? Then released as an iso through bit torrent . Other web sites could use the template on their sites and joe public could download it from a torrent site and use it off line .

overunity33 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:09:22 PM »

I don't understand why some of you think hosting files offshore is somehow putting all your eggs in one basket? How else are you gona decentralize this information in a tidy way? A wiki is simple enough to back up, and you dont need a viewer or another server to view it, just have it download as html files or such...

The offshores are safe, thats what hackers and carders use when they are impersonating a large company for phishing attacks, etc
The one group that gets hit way harder then us for good reason is child porn, they get their doors kicked in on the regular because of ip tracing... and they use these dosproof offshore server, so we should be fine

xxxxx · « **Reply #57 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:17:50 PM »

I would feel that if a project like this was undertaken it should be made completely public available. I know there is a lot of debate about full disclosure and wether it is better or worse for the community, but where would we today, if The Hive or Rhodium where private and limited to a close number of elite chemists? We wouldn't have gotten very far to the stage we are at today.

I would prepose a full open Wiki, which anybody can view without registration, although it should not be indexed. Each page would ideally be fully cited and supported with references as far as is possible. When a contributor uploads a reference to the server, it will be simultaneously be uploaded to Freenet by the server. The Freenet key can then be provided directly and immediately for viewers to download the supporting references. It might be possible to have a limited members area with direct access to the PDF references to download.

I know some people might say that Freenet is too slow for downloading large data like this. To compensate maybe every month or two an updated torrent would be created updated with all the new references. This will provide for long term preservation and distribution of the information at high speeds as long as it remain popular.

By using this arrangement you avoid all the copywrong issues of hosting the references on the server. You can provide immediate access to the latest references for those who are willing to endure the slow download speeds and finally you have a means of distributing the data and ensuring it is not lost for whatever reason by sharing it as a torrent?

If anyone has any comments or suggests about that setup I would be glad to here them. It should be relatively straightforward to implement with Mediawiki and can be almost totally automated with some scripting and a well designed database for the references.

Vesp · « **Reply #58 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:23:31 PM »

Edit: Is it obvious me and Pd have talked about this before?

The wiki and site in general.. in my mind would have these properties:

1. Wiki, Anyone can view and edit - not indexed by google/others but visible without logging in, and editable without logging in.
2. Does not store IP addresses, time/date of when things were posted/modified.
3. Automatically resize (make smaller) and edit/delete the exif data from uploaded images.
4. Provides monthly releases of the site => leading to multiple copies on multiple places...
5. Does not have files on server - but has a link to a link that has the files - I.E the-site.com links to the-pirate-bay.com which than links to the files.
6. It provides hash codes of the known and good torrents - that are of the files referenced, and new torrents are released monthly (or however often) having the new files referenced in the pages... + others.
7. Additionally/Also has files incorporated into freenet or Tor for fast and easy download/upload.
8. Entire site is HTTPS just for kicks
9.

Pros:
1. Does not host copyrighten content, but only acts like a linking web to connect all of it together, creates a protocol for members to follow to make files in torrents, on other networks, and so on - that are referenced and linked back.
2. Semi-decentralizes the information - since anyone and everyone can access/download/create files via freenet/torrents and also take the monthly created & scrubbed copies of the wiki.... It will be centralized in the sense that the "main/live" site is only 1 wiki, but this is needed to prevent multiple and differently updated copies of the wiki. If all files link to it, and than it makes copies of its content + links... Than all will be good.

3. No legal problems - it doesn't host the content NOR does it directly link to it so it is no worse than google... in a way.

Cons:
1. bit complicated but not that complicated, take only a few people to finish it up.
2. A bit expensive... hosting, and might be controversial so hosts might be hard to get - but I would figure out a way (maybe take you people up on donations if the need for it arose... since all ya'll keep wanting to donate (wtf?))

Example of how I see it:

Wiki Page 1:

Quote

Total Synthesis of Compound A

Lots of words, pictures, and references[1]

[1] Reference: A novel synthesis to Compound A

When clicking on the "Reference: A novel synthesis to Compound A "

it brings you to another page:

Quote

A novel synthesis to Compound A

Abstract:
Even more words, but no pictures.

Sources:
1. www.thepiratebay.com/something/Torrent-5-4-2011
2. www.files.onion
3. freenet-url

Than following those links... you get to a page that has the tracker/torrent info.. or however it works.

It will only focus on the topics like what The Vespiary, the Hive, rhodium, and so fourth have focused on. There will be no friendly chit-chat, private messaging, and so fourth - only members discussing what and why things should be added/edited - having write-up of experiments, things on security/safety, summaries of articles... and other stuff.

No need for "secrecy" - just do not want to get into copyright troubles... This avoids that problem and additionally creates a dynamic library of articles.

*Offshore hosting doesn't work super well, and if it does it is pretty expensive...
Personally, I think normal hosting is fine, and the best would be to host it at someones house to simply have total control over said server(s)...

Quote

Quote

Hosting

WikiLeaks describes itself as "an uncensorable system for untraceable mass document leaking".[62] The site is available on multiple servers and different domain names following a number of denial-of-service attacks and its severance from different Domain Name System (DNS) providers.[63][64]

Until August 2010, WikiLeaks was hosted by PRQ, a Sweden-based company providing "highly secure, no-questions-asked hosting services". PRQ is said to have "almost no information about its clientele and maintains few if any of its own logs".[65] Currently, WikiLeaks is mainly hosted by Bahnhof in a facility that used to be a nuclear bunker.[66][67] Other servers are spread around the world with the central server located in Sweden.[68] Julian Assange has said that the servers are located in Sweden (and the other countries) "specifically because those nations offer legal protection to the disclosures made on the site". He talks about the Swedish constitution, which gives the information providers total legal protection.[68] It is forbidden according to Swedish law for any administrative authority to make inquiries about the sources of any type of newspaper.[69] These laws, and the hosting by PRQ, make it difficult to take WikiLeaks offline; such laws place an onus of proof upon any complainant whose suit would circumscribe WikiLeaks’ liberty, e.g., its rights, of exercising free speech online. Furthermore, "WikiLeaks maintains its own servers at undisclosed locations, keeps no logs and uses military-grade encryption to protect sources and other confidential information." Such arrangements have been called "bulletproof hosting."[65][70]

On 17 August 2010, it was announced that the Swedish Pirate Party will be hosting and managing many of WikiLeaks' new servers. The party donates servers and bandwidth to WikiLeaks without charge. Technicians of the party will make sure that the servers are maintained and working.[71][72]

................................

WikiLeaks is based on several software packages, including MediaWiki, Freenet, Tor, and PGP.[78] WikiLeaks strongly encouraged postings via Tor because of the strong privacy needs of its users.[79]

On 4 November 2010, Julian Assange told Swiss public television TSR that he is seriously considering seeking political asylum in neutral Switzerland and setting up a WikiLeaks foundation in the country to move the operation there.[80][81] According to Assange, Switzerland and Iceland are the only countries where WikiLeaks would feel safe to operate.[82][83]

--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Site_management_issues

Let me emphasize this again: I support multiple people working on the same idea/concept but on different projects.
If you do not like how one person or another is doing the project, and think you have a better idea... than take action and make your idea happen...
Not everyone will ever come to an agreement, but there is likely one best method. Don't fall prey to scope creeps or people chasing castles in the sky (unrealistic dreams/goals that cannot be achieved)...

If a bunch of different people work on several different related projects - no doubt will they not only end up with more ways of solving the problem, with each having its own advantage and disadvantage, but it will also make it that much easier to find information, and that much harder to take it down.

The Lone Stranger · « **Reply #59 on:** May 04, 2011, 10:54:52 PM »

Thanks for the structured list a la me . .....Add me to that ideas list .......

Well done . Now the bits are all in one post and people can make easyer choices .

If its open google and all the others will index it .
No IPs and info could be illegal ? The ISP would have them anyway .
The links are still the responsibility of the people responsible for the site.
One idea = like hive / rhodium Different sections for each chemical group with sub sections for each chemical . All the contributors devided up into expert groups . Each group has closed / read only for out siders threads to work on things with one open thread in each group for comments and ideas from people inthe other groups .

Author Topic: Dateline - Strike (Read 877 times)

overunity33

Re: Dateline - Strike

overunity33

Re: Dateline - Strike

Vesp

Re: Dateline - Strike

Sedit

Re: Dateline - Strike

lugh

Re: Dateline - Strike

aniracetam

Re: Dateline - Strike

The Lone Stranger

Re: Dateline - Strike

salat

Re: Dateline - Strike

The Lone Stranger

Re: Dateline - Strike

overunity33

Re: Dateline - Strike

Shake

Re: Dateline - Strike

beanhead

Re: Dateline - Strike

Vesp

Re: Dateline - Strike

Bluebottle

Re: Dateline - Strike

Sedit

Re: Dateline - Strike

The Lone Stranger

Re: Dateline - Strike

overunity33

Re: Dateline - Strike

xxxxx

Re: Dateline - Strike

Vesp

Re: Dateline - Strike

The Lone Stranger

Re: Dateline - Strike