Author Topic: BZP  (Read 567 times)

Vesp

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BZP
« on: May 17, 2009, 12:55:53 AM »
BZP looks pretty easy to make, and almost completely OTC.
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv5p0088

piperazine can be produced from 1,2-dichlorethane and an alcoholic ammonia solution.  Both of which are easy to make or get. Maybe piperazine synthesis is much harder then it sounds, do any of you know?

I wonder why this isn't a more popular drug, or something to cut other drugs with that are more valuable?

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Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 02:12:02 AM »
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/bzp.html

"Why isn't this a more popular drug?"

It's got lots of nasty side effects, although it does substitute for amp in "addicted" individuals.

BZP is oft in party pills, and they cut mdma with bzp and mTFPP.

Your piperazine synthesis will not work very well AFAIK, you'll get lots of tertiary/quaternary amines/ammonium ions.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 02:14:29 AM by Enkidu »

v16

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Re: BZP
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 03:24:27 AM »
I also believe BZP is suspected in a few deaths around the US.  One in Colorado comes to mind.  From what I have heard in medical circles,  it is usually expected now when someone comes in on a OD of "ecstasy".  (They show up in a ED overheating, and say they took "ecstasy" pills....usually turns out they got BZP...sad)  Kids expecting MD's and got BZP pills.  Easy to overheat on them from what I hear...never tried it. Don't think I want to.


Douchermann

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Re: BZP
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 03:39:16 AM »
Yeah, it's not the most friendly drug in the world.  Your best option if you want to synthesize it, would be find a friend who has a horse and would have access to piperazine citrate (worm remover, not preventer).  Another option - piperazine freebase is the byproduct of producing piperic acid from piperine (look up piperonal from pepper). 

Vesp

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Re: BZP
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 03:36:28 AM »
I see, well that is to bad.. I guess? haha the BZP derivatives are likely just as harmful, eh?
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Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 04:01:33 AM »
As I understand it BZP deaths are caused by people thinking there taking one drug and not another mainly cut MDMA. Sounds like propaganda to me honestly.

Couldn't one start with BnO here and condense the Piperazine thru reductive amination? Seems like an easy one step synthesis for the compound.

Enkidu should be able to tell you about the derivatives since they seem to come up in discussion alot over at blacklight.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 04:03:18 AM by sedit »
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Re: BZP
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 04:35:05 AM »
"As I understand it BZP deaths are caused by people thinking there taking one drug and not another mainly cut MDMA. Sounds like propaganda to me honestly."

Exactly. IMO it is one of those drugs that ends up giving MDA/MDMA a bad name. People get hurt or die on it (usually not their fault!) and X takes the hit. Where as MDMA really is a useful, and relatively safe molecule... It is why many people have shunned discussing it manufacturing.  It is one of things that is a disservice to the community at large.  But my feeling that even taken on its own it bears little merit on its own (other than being able to be produced from non-watched precursors...)

Spice has some posts on it out there if people are interested.

Oh, and the deaths attributable to it are not propaganda.  There was a spike of ED cases a couple years ago when some wiseguy started cutting or selling pills of them as X.  It was in reported in Lancet if I rembember right.
 

Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2009, 05:09:43 AM »
I know the deaths are real but because they where taken under false pretenses they may not be justifyed.

People at these clubs eat wayyyy to many Epills. I was a club rat for some time selling them I know. The threshold for E is fine but that for other drugs such as this and PMA causes them to get a bad name when the person thought they where taking there normal dose of 5 or 6 X tabs and really they where taking over threshold for a drug they wouldn't have taken that much of otherwise.

I would consider synthing this by all means if I did that sort of thing. I would start with BnO though and aminate it with the piperizine in a one pot process.
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Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2009, 03:46:23 PM »
They have a pretty high LD50, actually.

Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2009, 07:57:38 PM »
Then whats causing the deaths?
Is it the combination with MDMA and other drugs or just the fact of folks not knowing when to stop dancing?


Also about the piperzine synthesis described by Vesp, how effective is this and how to go about synthing Dichloroethane.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 08:04:42 PM by sedit »
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Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 09:47:52 PM »

Piperazines as CB1 antagonist.

Quote
After the CB1 receptor antagonist SR141716 (rimonabant) was previously reported to modulate food intake, CB1 antagonism has been considered as a new therapeutic target for the treatment of obesity. Several series of urea, carbamate, amide, sulfonamide and oxalamide derivatives based on 1-benzhydrylpiperazine scaffold were synthesized and tested for CB1 receptor binding affinity. The SAR studies to optimize the CB1 binding affinity led to the potent urea derivatives. After the additional SAR studies to optimize the substituents of diphenyl rings, the combination of 2-chlorophenyl and 4-chlorophenyl turned out to be the most potent scaffold. The CB2 binding affinity assay as well as functional assay was also conducted on these compounds. Herein we wish to introduce several novel CB1 antagonists with IC(50) values less than 100 nM for the CB1 receptor binding.

Needed Reference: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18243711
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Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 10:35:52 PM »
You can buy piperazine for very, very cheap. Google is your friend.

Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 11:35:58 PM »
I thought it was watched because of its use in drug making. Never really gave it a second thought.

[edit]

Right you are a quick trip to the pet store even would yeild a piperazine solution.

Also here is a commercial synthesis from ethanolamine for those that like to read. The 760-2000 PSI is kind of a deal breaker though but Im not sure what pressures can be done in a steal bomb though.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/2910477.pdf
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 12:08:34 AM by sedit »
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Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2009, 02:54:49 AM »
^ piperidine is watched because of its use in fentanyl synthesis.

Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 02:58:41 AM »
Couldn't one start with BnO here and condense the Piperazine thru reductive amination? Seems like an easy one step synthesis for the compound.

Forgot to mention, you'd get a bunch of dibenzylpiperazine if you're not careful.

Sedit

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Re: BZP
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2009, 03:15:56 AM »
I know I was thinking about that also. That would also happen with the BnCl synthesis to so it would have to be kept in a dilute solution with a molar excess of piperazine. Mono Methylpiperazine would be idea since I have seen claims that Benzyl methylPiperazine does not have as many negative side effects of BZP and the synthesis would proceed easyer.

One could possibly Methylate the piperazine prior to using it in amination but you will also run into the same problem of creating dimethylpiperazine in small amounts. This should be inert in the following synthesis though so will just hurt yeilds if not purifyed.

Of all the BZP derivatives they discuss over at BL what would you say has the most recreational potential?



Piperidine, thats what I was thinking of. Not because of its use with Fentanyl but because of its use with PCP.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 03:20:46 AM by sedit »
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Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2009, 06:13:50 PM »
That would also happen with the BnCl synthesis to so it would have to be kept in a dilute solution with a molar excess of piperazine.

Nah, they prevent that with the clever use of the monohydrochloride.

Mono Methylpiperazine would be idea since I have seen claims that Benzyl methylPiperazine does not have as many negative side effects of BZP and the synthesis would proceed easyer.

Hmm, it makes sense that it would be active, from what I know of the SAR. Dunno if it tastes any better.

Of all the BZP derivatives they discuss over at BL what would you say has the most recreational potential?

Well, I can tell you that you won't get very far with any of the ring substituted bzps. Everyone wants to stick an MD group on there, or a 2,5-dimethoxy substitution pattern. Those don't really work. I would go with the tryptamine substitution patterns. (Use the 5HT2A selective isotryptamine patterns, with the appropriate nitrogen in bzp as the indolic nitrogen.) Of course, you may abolish the dopamine releasing properties of bzp.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 06:22:53 PM by Enkidu »

Enkidu

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Re: BZP
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 01:55:33 AM »
Well, I can tell you that you won't get very far with any of the ring substituted bzps. Everyone wants to stick an MD group on there, or a 2,5-dimethoxy substitution pattern.

Should have been "won't get very far with any of the [phenethylamine ring substitution patterned] bzps." If you do, it's a coincidence.

delic

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Re: BZP
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 03:28:50 PM »
Going mostly by what I've seen on wikipedia and the Rhodium archive, BZP and MBZP (Methyl BZP) seem to be the only attractive targets for use by themselves, but BZP seems to be a worthwhile material when used by people who know what they are taking, although I haven't experienced it personally. MBZP has the attractive quality of not being a controlled substance in the US, but the easiest way to make it is probably by methylating BZP, and any unconverted BZP would prevent the product from being legal. The synthesis in the Rhodium archive uses equal molar amounts of piperazine base and piperazine dihydrochloride in ethanol, giving two equivalents of piperazine monohydrochloride in situ. This is heated with one equivalent of benzyl chloride to produce one equivalent of BZP monohydrochloride in solution and one equivalent of piperazine dihydrochloride which almost quantitatively precipitates. The yield of BZP is given as 93-95% after conversion to the dihydrochloride. Rhodium's procedure gives some advice about producing piperazine dihydrochloride from other salt forms which is more complicated than necessary because of the poor solubility of the dihydrochloride in water. The common 17% piperazine sulfate sold for deworming pets and farm animals is probably sold as the sulfate because of the high solubility of that salt form. Mixing it wilth excess concentrated hydrochloride should precipitate most of the piperazine as the dihydrochloride, and converted to ethanolic monohydrochloride by mixing with the correct amount of ethanolic sodium hydroxide and filtering.

One thing that can be treacherous about this procedure is the number of possible products - piperazine, BZP and dibenzylpiperazine, all of which have base, monoprotonated and diprotonated forms. Fluorescent TLC is nice for distinguishing the latter two from starting material, but then (without real technology), melting points have to be depended on, which depends on the salt form.

Considering how many times the need for the melting point of a psychoactive compound or intermediate has come up, one which isn't listed in a catalog or the Merck Index, it would be real nice to have a table somewhere with all this data in one place. Has anyone heard of such a project?

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Re: BZP
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2009, 08:51:46 PM »
1-Benzyl-4-methylpiperazine is inactive (or nearly so up to 300 mg). There are at least two posts about its synthesis and bioassays at Hyperlab, one in English the other in Russian. There are also numerous other BZP analogues described in a thread there (in English), including the ring methoxy and methyl derivatives, alpha-methyl-BZP, and maybe others that I do not remember at the moment (just use the search engine...).