Author Topic: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...  (Read 2846 times)

jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 11:38:34 PM »
i would'nt leave it sitting open like that it goes into thin air trust me.
bichromatic means it has two colors
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 11:53:33 PM by jon »

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 12:22:47 AM »
I vacuum evaporated it because there was too much solvent in it - We've been very careful about protecting in from light it's wrapped in foil in the freezer now.  It was covered even in the desiccator, only took an hour or so as opposed to days.  We spend a LOT of time drying things so starting with as little quantity as possible is important and having spent my life savings on chemistry junk can't afford to waste chemicals!

I vacuum evaporate and recover solvents like this all the time so it isn't particularly complicated to me.  Only complication was having to add a cold trap because didn't want to smell DCM. 

It is a nice burgundy color but has some orange overtones.

I'm a auction shark at finding odd lots of stuff that wind up being really useful later on.  And it's fun to figure out how to use the pieces to get something done.  Used a coldfinger for the cold trap and put it in a iso/ice bath.

Don't have sodium iodide (at least what I've got is yellow so suspect its bad) so I'll use potassium for the finkelstein swap. 

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salat

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 12:28:17 AM »
Quote
You said nothing about distillation


Actually Jon's posts say DON'T distill it or you will learn new cusswords.  However xBee said it was ok because no heat was being used.  Will try the drying agent next time.

Use two sep funnels if you have them and just empty your layer out into the other one to minimize spills and loss due to clinging to glass.

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jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 01:14:12 AM »
use solvents to minimize mechanical losses.
bromosafrole has a very high boiling point if you used brazillian oil the acids would wash the terpines out of it upon workup so distilation is'nt nessecary.
don't believe me? take a ml of brazillian oil and another ml of 25% acetic acid and shake the two.
the acetic acid will take on a yellow hue and the oil on top will be clear after only two washes.
so this process has the added benefit that it purifies the starting material.
if you want to verify it then, take the oil into solvent and dry with potasium carbonate filter and remove solvent then check it's congealing point it will be in agreement with pure safrole.
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Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 01:30:42 AM »
It's a good tip!
When doing post Al/Hg red. amin. + NaOH  same big sep. funnel is used
first to separate all the crap from toluene,disassemble everything,wash
it many times to remove toxic crap,re-grease and than wash toluene in
it with water and brine.It takes too long and it is pain in the ass!
Another sep funnel is really neat to have around!

As long as you are using dry acetone as solvent it doesn't matter if you use
NaI or KI,just dry those salts a little bit.
Good thing is that you can't add too much of it!
Before doing flinkestein r. with your precious bromosafrole try it on
some other halogenalkane like DCM!
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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2011, 03:44:24 AM »
I was talking about losses during the washing of the bromosafrole before converting to Iodo.  This was a very small batch so a few drops here and there would make it vanish.

This is an early batch using the DMSO method that I screwed up and tried to fix and it looks pretty good.
This shows the 2 phase layers - not so good on capturing the color but it was as he said.

How long does the finkelstein usually take and what color is it when it's done?

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jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2011, 04:32:56 AM »
the finklestein rxn is a breeze.
1.05 moles of any iodide sodium or potassium and 1 g/mole of bromosafrole.
just add enough assatone to make it stirrable you can fugde either way it only has to mix.
this is because the iodide is slightly soluble in assatone it reacts so fast and crashes out as a bromide salt.
it takes bout 10 minutes you can stir it by hand i would let it run 30 minutes to be sure i used to do it in blenders.
the iodide is best finely grind before you use it.
if it's a bit yellow no matter.
then you add enough water to separate phases and separate the iodosafrole that way.
then you can extract the water phase using toulene of benzene i would'nt use chlorinated hydrocarbons because they could carry some iodides with them
iodosafrole is more of a purple tone does'nt have the same fruity chemical odor of bromosafrole.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 04:34:55 AM by jon »

Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 01:34:55 AM »
IMHO methoxypropane,diethyl ether or any other lower ether is best solvent to extract water contining some iodosafrole after finkelstein.
It evaporates very quickly and that is important since iodosafrole is probably also very volatile,
that being even more important now in such a small quantities you are working with.

Why are you using DMSO?
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jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 01:45:09 AM »
right or even hexane would work whatever you have on hand if the vapor pressure of the solvent is higher than that of the iodosafrole volalatility is'nt a big issue because the partial pressure of the solvent will be higher and evaporate first.

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2011, 04:36:23 AM »
That was a different batch before I tried jon's GAA.  Screwed it up by not adding enough KBr so had to go back and add some more.  There was some gunk in it but it came out in the wash and what I have looks ok, still have to recover the chloroform from it before doing a finkelstein on it.  I love that word - hey I'm finkelsteining!

Poor chemist - some of them have the weirdest names.

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jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2011, 07:00:05 AM »
chemist do have the oddest names i think that thier payback to society is making people remember their named reactions.

Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2011, 05:02:45 PM »
Funny thing is that most of them are Germans or Russians,like our Good Doctor Shulgin!

It's pity that man with such gigantic contribution to both chemistry and society doesn't have
reaction,process or chemical named after him! At least not one I know about.

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Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2011, 07:27:13 PM »
Any further progress !?
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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2011, 10:01:07 PM »
The GAA batch of IODO is cleaned up and in the freezer.  The DMSO batch is a bit more problematic, the DMSO really sticks and even after a bunch of water washes still have traces of it in the mix. 

Busy cleaning up a batch that went wrong due to inadequate methylamine.  Good practice.  Chemistry takes a lot of time and effort especially when you're learning and don't know what to expect.  Also lots of glassware to wash.

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Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2011, 11:29:14 PM »
Any interesting info on properties of iodo!?
Picture of the pure stuff and some info on its properties would be great!

What was main failure with methylamine,presence of water or...?

I am curious...jon will probably know it.
Do you think it is a good idea to dry NH3 or NH2CH3 rich IPA with some MgSO4
just before amination,expecialy if you are storing it for some time prior use?!
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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2011, 12:30:22 AM »
Til I am completely sure can't really say.  Been combing the web and will probably take a trip to university to get the properties of iodosafrole.  It isn't as well documented as some routes as far as I can tell.

The "failure" is probably due to not enough methylamine bubbled into the IPA.  jon gave a detailled write up but xBee had already done it by then.  jon stores his over 3A mol sieve.  You can buy it cheap on the web, we got 50 lbs once upon a time and it's great.  Won't know for sure it failed until it's all worked up and first time around you just don't know what to expect.  It looked really orangy emulsiony when I hit it with water, then after I added Hcl it cleared up again.  And tend to get too much solvent in the mix so have to evap some off and work it again.  Learning time.

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Oerlikon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2011, 01:43:52 AM »
Hmmm...assuming that original color before adding IPA/NH2CH3 was purplish/red
after reacting it orange emulsion sounds like MDMA freebase to me!
Jon said that MDMA freebase is yellow oil,adding HCl to freebase
should result in clearing up since MDMA.HCl is colorless salt.

You better distill that! (at reduced pressure preferably)

How did you do your amination!?
In sealed or open container,what pressure,what temperature,what time,shaking!?
Even more important,what was molar ratio of iodosafrole to NH2CH3?!
(If you don't know give me mass of both and I will calculate.)

Unfortunately mol sieve is bitch to find here.
But NOTE; If you plan to store IPA/NH3 instead of IPA/NH2CH3 to make MDA:
3A mol sieve absorbs NH3!!!
I am not sure if 4A mol sieve does so,but it is good to know!

If MgSO4 is good absorbent (it captures H2O molecules chemically as ligands) than I will stick with it!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 01:53:00 AM by Oerlikon »
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jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2011, 07:15:52 AM »
hmmm sounds like sucess, color change upon adding hcl means you got some sort of amine if it were isosafrole or unreacted iodosafrole it would just sink to the bottom.

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2011, 01:03:46 PM »

I am not sure if 4A mol sieve does so,but it is good to know!


yes it does too. Go with MgSO4.

jon

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Re: Yeee Haaah!! Jon's method DOES TOO work!! Bromosafrole...
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2011, 04:01:38 PM »
no not for drying methylamines mgso4 will complex methylamine.
i've tried it myself don't recomend that.
just use dry alcohol and dry methylamine gas from the get go.